EPA - May Outlaw 2-Cycle Detroit Diesels??

[Art]

Don't mislead them. Ca is expensive, crowded, full of nuts, too hot in summer, too cold in winter, STAY AWAY!!!!

You are correct, all that and more is wrong with CA!

All others than us poor Nor Cal folks should simply Say Away!

It's in our... err, their best interest!

 

[Marin]

Don't mislead them. Ca is expensive, crowded, full of nuts, too hot in summer, too cold in winter, STAY AWAY!!!!

From my perspective, STAY THERE!!!!

 

[FF]

80's 671 diesels... with very low hours but evidently always well maintained and often well warmed up

A DD will not "warm up" if not under load.

Ideling in the slip is a disaster.

I hope the "and often well warmed up" was a one or two hour ride , at least monthly.

FF

 

[Art]

From my perspective, STAY THERE!!!!

Rest Assured - WE WILL STAY HERE! Don't bother to visit... in perspective....

In Nor Cal we have warm, dry, sunny days for well over two thirds of the year, precipitation during winter to keep forests green and reservoirs full, warm freshwater in 1,100 delta miles that include main shipping lanes in city and town lined delta rivers with the addition of levied canals and small islands to boat, ski, swim, fish and comfortably lounge on the hook or with boat nose beached. Gorgeous SF Bay with SF City, Oakland Estuary, San Rafael, Sausalito and other great towns/cities. Fishing galore... in delta, bay, and outside GG Bridge. Short southern hop to Santa Cruz or Montery and north to Bodega Bay, Fort Bragg, Eureka.

Rest Assured - WE WILL STAY HERE in hard to live-around Nor Cal! Don't bother to visit... in perspective... cause your area is so rugged and beautiful to look at - - > You Should Remain There!

 

[Art]

80's 671 diesels... with very low hours but evidently always well maintained and often well warmed up

A DD will not "warm up" if not under load.

Ideling in the slip is a disaster.

I hope the "and often well warmed up" was a one or two hour ride , at least monthly.

FF

Thanks for 671 input Fred! - I leave 6 AM this morn for full day of review on this boat. She's a rare, one-off professionally designed and custom built, fully fiberglass "barn find" resting in fresh water whose elderly long time (25 years plus) live aboard owner was taken off by doctor's orders. That said, he loves his boat and is showing mid day with assisted accompaniment to join my review and answer questions. I've spoken with him several times - good man... sharpness of mind reminds me of my father in his last years. This craft may be a goodie... and she might not! Surely worth a look. Will eventually post my thumbs up or down on this rare opportunity.

 

[Marin]

Rest Assured - WE WILL STAY HERE!

GOOD. Thank you.

In Nor Cal we have warm, dry, sunny days for well over two thirds of the year

Boring. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. Never again.

Gorgeous SF Bay with SF City, Oakland Estuary, San Rafael, Sausalito and other great towns/cities.

Flat. I hate flat. I know you think the little hills like Mt. Tamalpias are mountains, but like the Appalachians, they're not. Plus like Florida California's always on fire or something. That's no fun.

Don't bother to visit...

No problem there. I did my time in California, northern California to boot, with the rest of my life off for good behavior.

So rest assured I will never venture "down there" unless my employer sends me down but that would only be to do a quick job and get out. In exchange for that, you and your crowd need to never venture "up here." The mountains are big and scary and the bears and whales love Californians as hors d'oeuvres.

Seriously, I cannot even conceive of trying to live in California --- or anywhere else--- after living, flying, fishing, hunting, and boating up here. Here being defined as northwest Washington, western BC, Yukon Territory, and SE Alaska.

 

[OFB]

Marin them pics have way too much blue sky and sun in them to be from here. These must be from the west coast of South America. Or from Norway or such. I mean I live here and you are not doing a good job at sending out a true picture of our area.

Shame on you.

 

[Marin]

Marin them pics have way too much blue sky and sun in them to be from here. These must be from the west coast of South America. Or from Norway or such. I mean I live here and you are not doing a good job at sending out a true picture of our area.

Shame on you.

They are all actually AfterEffects jobs using elements from highdef video projects I directed on the south island of New Zealand. AfterEffects is amazing. You can make a rainy day look sunny and visa versa. Once you define the digital parameters you can even use it to remove things like sperm whales attacking and sinking California-based boats, something that was going on in the foreground of a couple of these shots.

So not to worry. I created the shots in an attempt to lure a few unsuspecting Californians up here so the wildlife can dispense with them.

 

[OFB]

Oh I shoulda known better Marin.

Sorry bout that.

 

[Tom.B]

Can one of the moderators ask what all this has to do with the original topic? Can we stop the CA bashing and move back on track, please?

kthxbia :^)

 

[Marin]

I think the original post got answered a long time ago. The original poster isn't even talking about it anymore. So the thread has devolved into mindless babble now. Besides, California is such an easy target it's hard to resist taking a shot when the opportunity arises.

 

[Tom.B]

Then y'all would be okay if we closed it?

 

[Marin]

Fine with me but you should probably ask Art---- he posed the original question.

 

[Art]

Back to 671 diesel and boat basics

For 6 hours today I self surveyed what I hopped would be an in OK condition, fiberglass, 47' tour boat layout "barn find" sitting in plain sight in fresh water. Long and short of it - Bummer! Although the Detroit 671's and trany are stellar condition with unbelievable low hours and continual care there are other items on and in the 1981 boat that simply = No Purchase. Would have been nice... but... the costly repairs do not complement the boat's true value!
Next contestant!

 

[CPseudonym]

Back to 671 diesel and boat basics

For 6 hours today I self surveyed what I hopped would be an in OK condition, fiberglass, 47' tour boat layout "barn find" sitting in plain sight in fresh water. Long and short of it - Bummer! Although the Detroit 671's and trany are stellar condition with unbelievable low hours and continual care there are other items on and in the 1981 boat that simply = No Purchase. Would have been nice... but... the costly repairs do not complement the boat's true value!
Next contestant!

If you hadn't included the length I'd swear we've been looking at some of the same boats. A lot of good looking dogs out there, it's the fleas that kill them.

 

[Art]

If you hadn't included the length I'd swear we've been looking at some of the same boats. A lot of good looking dogs out there, it's the fleas that kill them.

 

[Marin]

So Art, just curious.... why are you looking to replace your Tollycraft? Or are you looking to add to your Tollycraft?

I've never operated a boat with 6-71s but I've been on a lot of them from the aku boats in Hawaii in the 1970s to surplus landing craft in the San Juans. Pretty reliable powerplants and they seem able to put up with a minimum of maintenance and still keep plugging away. I guess in theory their fuel efficiency leaves a bit to be desired, but if they go and go and go like the Energizer Bunny and don't require much maintenance or repair, their fuel burn may actually be cancelled out or even paid for by their overall low operating cost.

And they sound cool.

 

[rwidman]

Can one of the moderators ask what all this has to do with the original topic? Can we stop the CA bashing and move back on track, please?

kthxbia :^)

When a thread moves into a subject I don't care about, I just don't read it anymore.

This forum does seem a little worse than most others as far as staying on topic. I've noticed that boat questions often drift into airplane and RV discussions for example.

Of course this discussion of staying on topic is off topic itself.

 

[Art]

So Art, just curious.... why are you looking to replace your Tollycraft? Or are you looking to add to your Tollycraft?

I've never operated a boat with 6-71s but I've been on a lot of them from the aku boats in Hawaii in the 1970s to surplus landing craft in the San Juans. Pretty reliable powerplants and they seem able to put up with a minimum of maintenance and still keep plugging away. I guess in theory their fuel efficiency leaves a bit to be desired, but if they go and go and go like the Energizer Bunny and don't require much maintenance or repair, their fuel burn may actually be cancelled out or even paid for by their overall low operating cost.

And they sound cool.

Thanks for asking Marin

But, NO - I/we are not at all in interest to replace or sell our happy-go-lucky 1977 34’ Tolly tri cabin. She's a most care free, stable, comfortable, and fun craft; overall, she’s darn inexpensive and easy to own, maintain, and operate!

Reason I was/am contemplating a tour-type boat is for biz reasons only. The one I yesterday reviewed/surveyed at first blush appeared it might be a slam-dunk for SF Delta and Bay biz profit potential... however... upon close examination, I found way too many high expense and time consuming nightmares of repair/refurbishment that are immediately necessary. Her twin screw 671s were still cherry regarding their amazingly low hours and prodigious upkeep by owner. The 6'6" tall and full walk around engine room was the best layout I've ever experienced in a relatively small craft - 47 loa / 17' beam Both 671 start with push of a button, sound great, gauges read great, and there was NO black or white smoke during a cold start... after 30 days of sitting at rest. Great engines and trany - very bad boat, structurally as well as some other way-too costly items. Rotten chine logs as well as other extensive structural rots make her basically non-retrievable. The elderly owner (a truly nice fellow who lived aboard the boat for 27 years and was forced off by doctors and the fact that it takes two helpers to get him aboard) was basically ready to give her to me, but from my extensive survey I realized the repairs’ costs... if all of them could even be correctly accomplished... would upon completion far outweigh the boats value in biz or resale. Soooo – next contestant! I have no problem walking away from any material object if the $$$’s needed to own it don’t meet the financial or personal-fun profits I require.

 

[Marin]

I've noticed that boat questions often drift into airplane and RV discussions for example.

:

That's because a lot of cruising boaters are also into RV-ing or are or were pilots. I find the thought of RV-ing to be but one step up the exciting scale from watching paint dry, but every knows airplanes are far more interesting than boats.

 

[FF]

For many folks the use of RV systems is a big draw.

1/2 to 1/10 the price for the same results is useful to many.

EX , $18.00 for a RV merge solenoid, vs about $200 for a complex unrepairable transistorized gadget that gets the same result.

Dock strutters usually prefer the "marine" 10X the co$t for bragging rights at the bar..

Active cruisers may make a different choice.

FF

 

[rwidman]

For many folks the use of RV systems is a big draw.

1/2 to 1/10 the price for the same results is useful to many.

EX , $18.00 for a RV merge solenoid, vs about $200 for a complex unrepairable transistorized gadget that gets the same result.

Dock strutters usually prefer the "marine" 10X the co$t for bragging rights at the bar..

Active cruisers may make a different choice.

FF

Or - It could be that the person who choses "marine" components for his or her boat knows something that the person who uses cheaper components does not know.

Some components and systems are easily interchangable. For example potable water system components. Others are not. Examples would be electrical and propane systems and components.

A boat is not just an RV set on a hull. There are a lot of important safety considerations for boat components.

 

[psneeld]

Or - It could be that the person who choses "marine" components for his or her boat knows something that the person who uses cheaper components does not know.

Some components and systems are easily interchangable. For example potable water system components. Others are not. Examples would be electrical and propane systems and components.

A boat is not just an RV set on a hull. There are a lot of important safety considerations for boat components.

Maybe it's the other way around...the guy using the RV component at 1/10 the price may be the smarter of the two....

 

[Art]

Each to their own and own to their each! Although price is a factor ... what IS most important is the ongoing safety we boaters reach!

 

[Vyndance]

Maybe it's the other way around...the guy using the RV component at 1/10 the price may be the smarter of the two....

 

[psneeld]

Each to their own and own to their each! Although price is a factor ... what IS most important is the ongoing safety we boaters reach!

I think that is exactly what FF and I usually say...spend the money where it is needed most and for those of us that are on a budget..shop wisely and save where appropriate.

Being able to do that and give that advice with a clear conscience comes from a lifetime (50 plus years) of boating, repairing, professional mariner time, trained technician time, working in the industry, living aboard 3 different boats, debriefing thousands of surivors/clients involved with boating incidents, etc...etc...I don't take this stuff as lightly as some may think.

I would never advise someone to go to the big box store and jury rig a proper seacock...but I'll be glad to explain how to assemble a fresh water system that is NOT gonna sink your boat or catch it on fire with pieces and parts that are a fraction of what a marine store or design would cost/call for.

 

[Art]

I think that is exactly what FF and I usually say...spend the money where it is needed most and for those of us that are on a budget..shop wisely and save where appropriate.

Being able to do that and give that advice with a clear conscience comes from a lifetime (50 plus years) of boating, repairing, professional mariner time, trained technician time, working in the industry, living aboard 3 different boats, debriefing thousands of surivors/clients involved with boating incidents, etc...etc...I don't take this stuff as lightly as some may think.

I would never advise someone to go to the big box store and jury rig a proper seacock...but I'll be glad to explain how to assemble a fresh water system that is NOT gonna sink your boat or catch it on fire with pieces and parts that are a fraction of what a marine store or design would cost/call for.

Yup!

 

[bobofthenorth]

For a lot of "mariners" paying a lot of money and having a marine stamp gives them the confidence that they are unable to achieve any other way. They simply don't have the skill set to evaluate their options and choose wisely. A lot of people come to this late in life with no particular knowledge about or ability to assess mechanical systems. For them paying too much is a form of insurance and gives them some confidence. Misguided confidence often IMHO but confidence nevertheless.

 

[Art]

For a lot of "mariners" paying a lot of money and having a marine stamp gives them the confidence that they are unable to achieve any other way. They simply don't have the skill set to evaluate their options and choose wisely. A lot of people come to this late in life with no particular knowledge about or ability to assess mechanical systems. For them paying too much is a form of insurance and gives them some confidence. Misguided confidence often IMHO but confidence nevertheless.

Again, Yup!

 

[Marin]

Systems like water heaters, refrigerators, stoves and ovens, etc. may have differences, quality or safety, between RV/home units and "marine" units that are worth paying attention to. The problem is that as Bob said, most of us don't have the time, background, experience, or interest in knowing every little thing about refrigerators, hot water heaters, and stoves. So we tend to rely on the manufacturers (ideally reputable ones) to provide us with suitable systems for our boats.

BUT..... there are areas where a lot of money can be saved by avoiding the "marine" label and you don't need a lifetime of technical experience to do so. One that comes to mind is fasteners. Unlike planes, which rightly or wrongly have to have every screw, rivet, lock washer, and wire tie "approved" by a regulatory agency, you can put whatever you want into your boat. The stainless fasteners at Ace or Home Despot are going to work in a boat as well as they do in a birdhouse, and they generally cost a fraction of what you'll pay for that same bolt or screw or washer at West Marine, Fisheries, etc. Over time, if you do a lot of the maintenance and upgrades on your boat yourself, you can save an impressive amount of money.

Wire and electrical connectors are another one.

So while I would not put a Warn winch intended to be mounted on a Jeep on the bow of my boat to use as an anchor windlass, I'm just fine with buying fasteners and wire and connecters and wire ties and PVC pipe and connectors, sandpaper, blue tape, brushes and a whole lot of other stuff from the Aces, Home Despots, Sears, etc. of the world. At a fraction of what the same components would cost with a marine store bar code on them.