Firearms on Board

[Per]

does anyone know the rules in california?

i do find it humorous to note that in Countries (ie down under and Canada) where the Queen of England is still collecting taxes, the personal carriage of fire arms is prohibited, the exact reason it will never be illegal in USA to carry a gun (and the main reason it was put in the constitution).

 

[markpierce]

Per wrote:
does anyone know the rules in california?

*It's best to go to the official source.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/

 

[Per]

i looked there but cannot find anything related to boating.
is it same rules as for carriage for transport (in cars)??

also, since the USCG have jurisdiction on the water, what are their (federal rules)?

 

[markpierce]

Per wrote:
i looked there but cannot find anything related to boating.
is it same rules as for carriage for transport (in cars)??

also, since the USCG have jurisdiction on the water, what are their (federal rules)?

*My sense is that while underway, the rules*related to motor vehicle transport (locked away and unloaded)*apply unless actively hunting or shooting (got ducks?)*if permitted at the location and done from a motorless vessel.* While anchored or berthed, home rules (guns can be loaded and ready to shoot if in personal possession of responsible adult)*would apply.* A camp (like at a campground)*is likened to a home.* (I've a loaded 357 five-shot*revolver beside me here at the home*computer, but I'm disinclined to take a firearm onboard.)

I'm not aware there are any federal laws that apply other than for the purchase limitations as it pertains to so-called*"interstate" commerce.* (You'll need a special permit for your fully automatic*machine gun.)


-- Edited by markpierce on Monday 16th of May 2011 04:22:06 PM

 

[Moonstruck]

markpierce wrote:Per wrote:
i looked there but cannot find anything related to boating.
is it same rules as for carriage for transport (in cars)??

also, since the USCG have jurisdiction on the water, what are their (federal rules)?

*My sense is that while underway, the rules*related to motor vehicle transport (locked away and unloaded)*apply unless actively hunting or shooting (got ducks?)*if permitted at the location and done from a motorless vessel.* While anchored or berthed, home rules (guns can be loaded and ready to shoot if in personal possession of responsible adult)*would apply.* A camp (like at a campground)*is likened to a home.* (I've a loaded 357 five-shot*revolver beside me here at the home*computer, but I'm disinclined to take a firearm onboard.)

I'm not aware there are any federal laws that apply other than for the purchase limitations as it pertains to so-called*"interstate" commerce.* (You'll need a special permit for your fully automatic*machine gun.)



-- Edited by markpierce on Monday 16th of May 2011 04:22:06 PM

*When on board my boat, I consider it my home.* Even the Bahamas will let you bring in a weapon if it is declared and the amunition is counted.* There are allot of boat thefts in the islands.* I do not want to be anchored, hear someone step on my boat, and be absolutely defenseless.* Anyone doing that without permission is invading my home.* They had better leave quickly.

 

[jleonard]

"I do not want to be anchored, hear someone step on my boat, and be absolutely defenseless.* Anyone doing that without permission is invading my home.* They had better leave quickly."

There is a saying something like "I'd rather be judged by twelve than be carried by six" that might be appropriate here.

*

 

[Tom.B]

We are thinking about a tazer, though.

 

[GregJ]

Per wrote:
i do find it humorous to note that in Countries (ie down under and Canada) where the Queen of England is still collecting taxes, the personal carriage of fire arms is prohibited, the exact reason it will never be illegal in USA to carry a gun (and the main reason it was put in the constitution).

*Per

I find your total lack of knowledge about what happens downunder very humourous, Australia pays absolutely nothing to the Queen of England, in fact we pay nothing to the Queen of Australia either, all taxes are collected by the Australian Taxation Office for the Commonwealth of Australia, probably about the same deal as taxes in the USA are collected by I believe you call it, *the dept of internal revenue.

One huge difference between of great countries is, we became our own country without resorting to war.

 

[markpierce]

GregJ wrote:
One huge difference between of great countries is, we became our own country without resorting to war.

*Yeah, but probably at least partly due to England not wanting to spend*lives and fortune fighting another revolution with its colonies.* There would have been no American revolutionary war if the motherland didn't want to fight.

 

[Andy G]

shrimp wrote:
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Always thought the Canadians were a pretty sensible lot

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" Yeah me too. So why all the gun laws?"

It goes back to 1996 and the Port Arthur massacre in Tasmania, a lone gunman shot to death 35 people and injured another 20 odd.

This had a profound affect on the country. Up until this time our gun laws were pretty liberal, we had a history of pioneering exploration similar to that of the US and guns were part of the culture especially in the outback, not quite to the extent that is prevalent in the US, but there nevertheless.

After the massacre there was widespread feeling that we had been too lax in our attitude to gun control and this was supported by the conservative government of the day. In the following year strict laws in regard to gun possession were introduced and a 12 month amnesty for handing in the firearms was enacted.Many thousands of weapons were handed in to be destroyed,including my three rifles, we kinda felt we owed it to the people that died that day.

This did not affect farmers etc who had a valid reason for possessing guns, but the onus of proof for wanting to keep a firearm for anyone else was pretty tough.These measures were almost universally accepted and had strong support from the police in all states.

Semi automatic weapons and any hand guns were prohibited.

That incident changed the prevailing attitude of gun ownership in this country in a single afternoon. In this we believe the right of the society at large overrides the rights of the individual.

I'm not saying that a Port Arthur could not happen again , but we can make it as difficult as possible for people to get their hands on the weapons.

By the way Per, the Queen has not been collecting taxes in this country for a couple of hundred years, and I don't believe that the reason the Americans still Carry firearms is to protect themselves for an 88 year old queen, Prince Phillip on the other hand, that I may understand.

 

[hollywood8118]

When the government can prove that they have taken EVERY gun away from EVERY dirt bag, tweaker, child molester, and gang banger they can have all my guns. They might even get my wife to hand over her's. But we know that will never happen. In Canada they have some pretty restrictive handgun laws and yet a lot of otherwise law abiding citizens still feel the need to keep their hand guns. Regarding Australia, they never needed to start a war to gain independence from the crown... didn't they start as a penal colony anyway??. When we sailed across the Pacific we carried a riot shotgun.. never declared it and I would do it again today
HOLLYWOOD

 

[Tidahapah]

Andy G,
I'm with you I got rid of my guns at that time gave them all to my brother.
He is a member of a gun club and has the requisite safe ,locked, gun locker in his house.
Me I hqvn't required a gun since and don't feel that threatned in this country.
Mind you having lived in the USA for about 10 years in the 70's I didn't have to carry a gun then as every bastard I was with had a hand gun in their pocket or glove compartment.
Spent my time between LA and New Jersey.

 

[Andy G]

FF, I don't know who posted that nonsense of the Rambo granny from Melbourne, but it was a schocker. Australians don't talk like that for a start.Our crime figures are remarkably stable in this country, I checked the government stats and crime has not spiked at all in the last 20 years, there has been a major shift in the type of crime perpetrated, but that reflects the changing dynamics of a society, ie electronic fraud, drugs etc.

I suspect that the gun ownership issue has been fuelled by parties with a vested interest in manufacturing weapons using the 'right to bear arms' argument coupled with a steady diet of fear mongering, both factual and fictional.America has always believed in the right to bear arms, but look at the stuff now marketed for personal protection, it's gun porn.

*

A final question, do you feel*more threatened*in this country now, than when you were growing up, or have you always travelled around in boats with loaded weapons. An hounorable exception to our Alaska friends. I think I would have a sizable weapon with me having seen some of your mighty bears.

*OK that's enough from me.

 

[Forkliftt]

hollywood8118 wrote:
When the government can prove that they have taken EVERY gun away from EVERY dirt bag, tweaker, child molester, and gang banger they can have all my guns. They might even get my wife to hand over her's. But we know that will never happen. In Canada they have some pretty restrictive handgun laws and yet a lot of otherwise law abiding citizens still feel the need to keep their hand guns. Regarding Australia, they never needed to start a war to gain independence from the crown... didn't they start as a penal colony anyway??. When we sailed across the Pacific we carried a riot shotgun.. never declared it and I would do it again today
HOLLYWOOD

Ditto!

 

[Per]

GregJ wrote:Per wrote:
i do find it humorous to note that in Countries (ie down under and Canada) where the Queen of England is still collecting taxes, the personal carriage of fire arms is prohibited, the exact reason it will never be illegal in USA to carry a gun (and the main reason it was put in the constitution).

*Per

I find your total lack of knowledge about what happens downunder very humourous, Australia pays absolutely nothing to the Queen of England, in fact we pay nothing to the Queen of Australia either, all taxes are collected by the Australian Taxation Office for the Commonwealth of Australia, probably about the same deal as taxes in the USA are collected by I believe you call it, *the dept of internal revenue.

One huge difference between of great countries is, we became our own country without resorting to war.

*Thanks Greg, I am not trying to pick a fight though to understand Americans you need to understand the above statement.

Americans believe all men are born equal, and that my friend includes royals...

I must be ignorant as I had no idea there was a Queen of Australia.

 

[Flyguy1967]

If you carry and go into Canada, remember to delcare you have it/them aboard.

"A Washington state charter boat owner who sailed into Pender Harbour and failed to declare three loaded handguns was facing a minimum mandatory threeyear jail sentence for smuggling firearms into Canada, his defence lawyer said.

Port Angeles resident Fred Rodolf, 72, will still face a one-year minimum mandatory jail sentence if federal prosecutors allow him to plead guilty to a less serious charge, Victoria lawyer Tom Morino said Friday."



Read more: http://www.timescolonist.com/Port+A...ded+handguns/4786560/story.html#ixzz1MdP2fLqR

 

[KJ]

Wow, Geeze, Holey Moley guys.*Lot's of interesting (yes, intense) responses here. I think I might have mentioned that in my original inquiry.* Obviously, a very emotional topic (almost as much as the single vs. twin dialogue).*

I actually*have mixed feelings about the carrying of weapons on board (or anywhere for that matter).*Any reasonably sensible person can see that*there are valid arguments on both sides of the discussion.*

Yes, the world would probably be a*better place if every gun (knives, clubs, etc.) on the planet were dumped into the ocean. But then we would probably just throw rocks at each other.*The dogma of "then only the bad guys would*have guns" is also*not without merit.

The scenario that I keep*thinking of*is one that*several folks have brought up here; what if you*are on your boat in some*peaceful secluded cove and in the middle of the night you get boarded by a couple of guys that are trying to break down your door or companionway. Now, down below, absolutely terrified, is your wife (say good-bye), your kids or grand-kids,*and/or your parents.* Whatever weapons the"bad guys" have, they intend on using them. If you had a firearm on board,*would you, could you, kill*another human being defending your loved ones?* **

**I personally will be traveling in waters that might be considered marginally safe. I think I would like to be able to defend myself with something more than harsh language if I absolutely had to. There are a lot of nasty people out there*who would do you*in and dump you overboard in heartbeat.* This is not paranoia, it is simply the real world we live in.

Conversely, if I was cruising around Sandy Hook or Tiburon, I'd probably wouldn't feel the need to*carry any firearms.* If you do all your boating in "safe" waters, than this whole question is moot (maybe).

However, I don't think any country, state,*or town,* has the market cornered on a "gun safe" *society, to think*so is presumptuous. We all have our share of "crazy people".

Anyway, I think with some*modifications, this is*what I envision*ol' "Obi Wan"*should look like. It certainly addresses the "concealed weapon" issue, and I think it really makes a statement.

*

Seriously though, I think it's best*if we*all respectfully agree to disagree on this subject. Even with*your most convincing argument, your aren't going to change the other guy's opinion, but then again, that's what our personal freedoms are all about.

Whew!!****** KJ

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-- Edited by KJ on Tuesday 17th of May 2011 11:56:11 PM

 

[Moonstruck]

That looks great, KJ.* The bilge keels should give a stable shooting platform.* I have been considering a twin 50 cal. turret*mounted in the helm deck roof.* The 360 degree coverage*would eliminate the need for a tail gun mount.*


-- Edited by Moonstruck on Wednesday 18th of May 2011 05:51:59 AM

 

[Keith]

Remember that a boat is a mode of transportation, not* a home even if you live aboard according to the various laws. So you have to think of it as a car to decide how to best carry. That being said, the easiest thing for handguns is to get your concealed handgun permit and learn the laws and reciprocity between states. If you're going to other countries, learn their laws and restrictions, which are almost certainly more draconian than ours.

 

[Steve]

I do carry firearms on board, another possibility for those not so inclined would be one of the nonlethal alternatives: sprays in various stengths from wasps to bears along with the pepper and mace types, or a tazer. Note, in some of these are also illegal in certain areas.
Steve W.

 

[skipperdude]

Steve wrote:
I do carry firearms on board, another possibility for those not so inclined would be one of the nonlethal alternatives: sprays in various stengths from wasps to bears along with the pepper and mace types, or a tazer. Note, in some of these are also illegal in certain areas.
Steve W.

*Right with you on this one. If you are not a black belt or just a big guy you better have some form of protection.

*Haven't you ever met an bully in your life.**Or just an ass ho**?

Some people are just plain sociopaths. Murders and rapists. Or just like to push others around.

Human nature runs the whole gambit from Mother Teresa to Ted Bundy and all those in between.

I for one will not lay down because someone wants what I have and wants to take it from me.

*I will hang onto my Smith and Wesson as long as I can.

*

SD


-- Edited by skipperdude on Wednesday 18th of May 2011 10:09:37 AM

 

[Anthonyd]

Been around the horn and onto the Middle East many times through the Suez. The ships I have sailed on have been fired upon several times by pirates. 12 gauge, Taurus .25 for the concealed and Springfield .45's for just in case. I would rather hire a lawyer then become a victim and a statistic.*

 

[Per]

another question going in the same topic:

when you go to bed in your bunk, do you lock all entry ways?
my wife wants them locked, i want them unlocked.
my thought is that there is a higher possibility we will want to get out quickly, perhaps due to some sort of fire, than anyone is coming to rob us in the middle of the night.
and here i mean being at our home slip in the marina.

at anchorage in safe waters no doubt our doors would be unlocked.

we normally have our dog onboard as well, she is not a pitbull but she can certainly raise her bristles and make some noise if someone we dont know boards the boat.

whats your thought?

 

[dwhatty]

Practically no one around here locks their boats, cars or houses whether they are occupied or not, unless they are "summer complaints" or recent "year round people from away". You can always tell when the summer tourist season has started by the sound of car alarms beeping as car doors are locked. Plenty of firearms around but very rarely used against people, unless one attempts to haul some lobsterman's traps or fish his territory.

 

[FlyWright]

We lock our doors at night when onboard, but they are both very easy to unlock from inside for emergency egress. I would never have a locked entrance/exit that I couldn't easily open in case of an emergency. We've never been bothered, but we sleep better knowing someone is going to have to make some noise to get in the boat.

Once inside, we have a plan for defense which includes projectiles, sprays and battering rams, the details of which I will leave to your imagination. Suffice to say, we feel safe today. If anarchy or wholesale piracy erupts, I'd want to upgrade the lines of defense a little bit.

 

[Tidahapah]

Bit like David out here never lock the doors and very rarely are the doors locked when I am not on board even when I go away to sea for work..
One day it may all bite me on the arse but until then I live the dream.

 

[Per]

dwhatty wrote:
*unless one attempts to haul some lobsterman's traps or fish his territory.

*the fishermen are assigned territories? or self proclaimed territory?

since i was visiting RI as a 16 yo, i have long wished to re-visit the N eastern corner.

hopefully i can make it back sometime soon with my family.

 

[Larry M]

We never lock the boat, on or off.* Every time we have seen a boat that has been locked up and burglarized the damage is incredible just getting in.* If they are already on the boat are the locks going to stop them?* When we*were are gone we shut everything up and close the doors.* When we're on the boat everything is usually open (to hot to close it up).* We have taken our boats to 38 different countries and never had an issue.* We have avoided countries and areas the same way you do*around cities at night.* We are usually on the boat by dusk but*no guns for us.* I'm not prepared to shoot someone and getting caught outside the US with a firearm is not going to keep us cruising.* I don't know if it was this post or another one regarding guns, but there was*a*post about Sir Peter Blake getting shot and killed because he pulled a rifle on someone who was trying to stealing a 5 hp outboard motor off his boat in Brazil.*

 

[Andy G]

About 6 weeks ago we were boarded at night.

I was sitting in the cabin listening to some music accompanied by a nice glass of red when we heard this thump and then a second later, a smaller clunk.Definitely not boat type noises.we were at anchor in this small deserted bay, no one around.

Quick as a flash I suggested to my wife she might like to go and see what was what.She merely replied that "you are the hunter gatherer, and I'm the house maker, off you go", so much for women's lib I thought.

So I grabbed my trusty dolphin torch and ventured out. I headed aft turned on the torch and there looking very bewildered was this small furry marsupial about the size of a rat. It took one look at me and bolted up the port side. I thought what the hell, we are about 50 yards from the shore, it couldn't jump that far and had no wings. Then I looked up, and there circling overhead was this large Wedge Tail Eagle, with what I fancy was a very cranky look on it's face.

I reported my brave expedition to said wife, who looked underwhelmed at my safe return and replied perhaps we might close the door tonight before going to bed.I never found any evidence of him in the morning and I'm almost sure he/she /it*is still not on board.

 

[Moonstruck]

shrimp wrote:
About 6 weeks ago we were boarded at night.

I was sitting in the cabin listening to some music accompanied by a nice glass of red when we heard this thump and then a second later, a smaller clunk.Definitely not boat type noises.we were at anchor in this small deserted bay, no one around.

Quick as a flash I suggested to my wife she might like to go and see what was what.She merely replied that "you are the hunter gatherer, and I'm the house maker, off you go", so much for women's lib I thought.

So I grabbed my trusty dolphin torch and ventured out. I headed aft turned on the torch and there looking very bewildered was this small furry marsupial about the size of a rat. It took one look at me and bolted up the port side. I thought what the hell, we are about 50 yards from the shore, it couldn't jump that far and had no wings. Then I looked up, and there circling overhead was this large Wedge Tail Eagle, with what I fancy was a very cranky look on it's face.

I reported my brave expedition to said wife, who looked underwhelmed at my safe return and replied perhaps we might close the door tonight before going to bed.I never found any evidence of him in the morning and I'm almost sure he/she /it*is still not on board.

*Shrimp, that was a close call for sure.* Thanks for the story.