First/Last Yacht need advice

[S.S. Minnow]

Just know that by jumping straight into a bigger boat, you will have a steep learning curve on all the other things that are involved in happy cruising. Navigation, trip planning, managing/interacting with other boat traffic of all types, weather forecasting and interpretation, radio procedures, radar use and tuning, navigating currents, all take most of us some time to learn. Working up through smaller boats gives you a chance to learn a few systems at a time until you are comfortable putting it all together.

What if you check the weather one morning and the wind is forecast is to blow 20kts, swells 6-8 at 6 seconds. Do you go? What if the period is 15 seconds? What if it is blowing 30 but you are in protected water? How does that affect your decision? Lightning in forecast; go or no go? You may be a weather guru but you get the idea.

I am cheering you on, but will encourage you to be open to adjustments in your plan. I will also say try to move slow and give yourself the best chance of choosing what boat will really serve you well, and not make a choice too early when you haven't fully tested your assumptions about future cruising plans.

Allot like flying, can't wait. Agree, the chances my original ideas will prevail are slim. It's why I am here.

 

[S.S. Minnow]

I’m close to where you are, and I boated the Mississippi and St. Croix off and on for many years. We enjoyed many trips on the Mississippi mainly staying within 3 days of Prescott, Wisconsin.

If you want to be off the grid, and surrounded by natural beauty, there are some areas, but with a boat that large, tough for you to get to. We left the area as a boating area 3 years ago, mainly due to the crowds of boats and people. I don’t know you personally, but my guess is you would be miserable in that area unless you were just using it as a temporary port to figure things out. It is real busy, and with all the locks and nature of the river, it gets small real quick as far as destinations go.

Have you considered Lake Superior -
more specifically the Bayfield, Wisconsin area as a home port? Some of the most beautiful and peaceful cruising areas there are. It is known as “The Freshwater Caribbean”.

You would have room to roam, and it sounds like whatever boat you get would be up to the task. You can visit some real nice ports, but also head 10-15 miles out among the islands and see no one for days and days.

You would also gain more varied boating experiences, and have a lot more access to professional captains to help you out.

Explore the Bayfield, Wisconsin areas. Some of the best cruising you will find in freshwater.

Happy to chat more about any aspect of it all.

Lake Superior is 2.5 hours away, Lake Michigan is 3 ish. No issue there and I spect a much more relaxed environment to come up to speed on the do's and don'ts than the river with all it's issue's with traffic and....

 

[mncruiser]

Lake Superior is 2.5 hours away, Lake Michigan is 3 ish. No issue there and I spect a much more relaxed environment to come up to speed on the do's and don'ts than the river with all it's issue's with traffic and....

Some great marina options up on Superior, but for 60’ish plus feet you might need to do some digging. Happy to help you narrow options when you get closer.

 

[Mark Laurnen]

S.S. Minnow, Your questions and responses would indicate that you are doing everything right as you enter this new arena! As a longtime avid reader, infrequent poster, I can tell you that the vast experience of the seasoned contributors is a compendium of invaluable information. Someday, you too will be able to educate someone in your present circumstance. I have been boating for over fifty years and have found many opportunities to self-educate ... fortunately with minimal expense, and often in the "never do that again" category. The only advice I might reinforce is look at insurance immediately. The marine insurance quagmire only gets worse each year, the only constant seems to be the industry does everything in its power to minimize risk and assure profit. Welcome to the big boating world where you will (must) enjoy every dollar spent ... and you will get a lot of pleasure, both planned and unplanned!

 

[CarlF]

Your biggest mistake is trying to make your first cruising boat your last. I don’t know ANY cruiser who has done this - except a few who didn't like it - or their wife didn't like it - and gave up after a year or two.

Your needs change. Your cruising areas change. And you learn.

Put a lot of effort into finding the perfect boat not for you but for your wife. I have at least a dozen friends whose wives didn’t like the boat their husband bought and were “off the boat” in less than a year. The guy then sold the boat because he couldn’t find anyone to cruise with him. Happens a lot!

So buy a boat for 3-5 years and expect you’ll sell it and get another. I’ve owned seven

For your first boat don’t overbuy. Big boats are - well, big. Your wife will find the size intimidating and docking scary. Is she ready to handle 30lb dock line? The maintenance is challenging. Insurance is hard to get.

42ft-45ft is much easier and plenty big.

Why lug around huge engines if you are going to cruise at 8-10kts. Big engines are a maintenance headache and usually require professional mechanics - who can be hard to schedule. It is not uncommon to find boats with big engines stuck in a marina for two months waiting for engine parts.

Forget this idea of fighting a 7knot current with one engine. Most boats can’t steer straight on one engine at high speed. If you lose an engine you are going to limp along until you can get a tow. Well maintained diesels are very reliable.

Don’t start with the Mississippi or even the loop. Start with the ICW and The Bahamas. If you and your wife don’t enjoy cruising there, sell the boat. Cruising isn’t your thing. Do that for three years and then pick the next cruising area - and maybe a different boat - but that’s not today’s problem.

 

[bumpkin]

Ahh the heady days of the yacht search. I looked at the examples you brought up and I'm not sure any of them are for anchoring out. To me, most seemed to be setup for marinas, sunset cruises and social gatherings. The opposite of the solo experience of anchoring out, enjoying solitude. Granted most of the examples I found of your choices, didn't have good pictures or presentation to completely understand the layout of the boats.

The 99 Horizon had the best pictures and presented them to understand the layout. I felt the inside helm was set up for a party not efficiently running a boat. Same could be said of the flybridge.

Anchoring out, for me, is a more of solitary pursuit, Lisa and myself enjoying life. Often anchorages include other boats, because not many spots are conducive to a good night's sleep. Your idea of a 64ft boat will be unwieldy in many anchorages. There is not a ton of space to maneuver.

As late as the 90's boats of 60+ feet were set up to be piloted or crewed. Large boats were clumsy to operate. Your Horizon had a kitchen that was closed off from the rest of the boat allowing the cook to work undisturbed, not for you or "Wolf?" to prepare your everyday meals.

The kitchen is 3 decks down from your flybridge. How can you have an intimate supper enjoying nature up on the flybridge if it is cooked and carried up 3 decks. It may happen for a special celebration but delivery and returning the dirty dishes will soon outweigh the benefits. On my boat the kitchen is 2 steps down in the main salon and that is a bit of a pain to navigate particularly at a bouncy anchorage.

Boats are not wet RVs and most of what makes a good rv doesn't make a good boat; on an rv everything is on one floor. On my boat, the same length as my bus, there are 3 levels and it seems that I have a reason to be on each floor several times a day. On an RV you can pull over to sit out bad conditions, such as wind. On a boat you are stuck with no way to pull over, even if you are at a marina. I and ten other boaters kept a high windage boat off boats in other slips. It was 15 minutes of tense activity to keep the high windage boat, similar to your big rv from disaster.

So onto suggestions, I suggest a trawler similar to a Selene. It will be slow but it will live large at anchor. The forum can help you with other names.

I was recently on a Kadey Krogen Manatee and was blown away with the liveability of the 36fter. I suggest visiting boats to understand how a layout will affect your life.

Mike

 

[OldDan1943]

The 34AT…. Saloon to galley, no steps. Up to pilot house, 3 steps. Down to head/owner’s SR, 3 steps.
I have added more than a few stainless hand rails to provide guidance and support.

 

[Art]

S.S. Minnow - Darn interesting TF handle for someone going from 20' fisher to 65' cruiser; with big, powerful twins!

As Clint Eastwood / Dirty Harry would ask you contemplate: "Do I feel lucky"?

Kidding aside... Good luck! I agree, in what we want to do, Go Big as Desired... or Go Home!!

https://www.google.com/search?q=Dir...#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:1e8fcdbe,vid:38mE6ba3qj8

 

[ranger58sb]

Your biggest mistake is trying to make your first cruising boat your last. I don’t know ANY cruiser who has done this - except a few who didn't like it - or their wife didn't like it - and gave up after a year or two.

Everyone we know who stayed in boating sold their first and bought again.... and sometimes again and again and again.

The rest sold their first boat and went off to do something else.

-Chris

 

[mml2112]

SSM,

I have experience on the Miss. and am a licensed Capt. PM me if you want to talk.

Mike

 

[EVERFOR]

There is a simplicity and ease of use that comes with smaller boats. Consider staying under 42’ for your first one. Not because of being able to handle it in current and tight quarters, but for more mundane reasons.

1. Simplicity. The number of systems to maintain and repair increases exponentially with the size of the boat. All the boats you mention are over 20 years old. What hasn’t already been replaced/rebuilt will need work soon or again. I’m not referring to the engines as much as the little things below the deck… refrigeration, electronics, potable water system, sump pumps, after-market wiring, circuit breakers, etc. Or structural issues…. leaky windows and hatches, water intrusion around deck fittings caused by the working of an aging hull. Cosmetic… a 60’ boat has more than twice as much surface area to keep bright and shiny as a 36. (Keep it simple. You want to use your boat not spend all your time working on her.)

2. Ease of use. This determines how much a boat sits idle at the dock. I know you plan to anchor a lot, but you still have to keep her someplace. It is around 40’ that it becomes a bigger production for two people to maneuver in and out of slips…. It can put a strain on a relationship. Freeboard… How much of a step to the dock? I am 75 and still fairly agile, but one of the reasons I chose the boat I have is I can easily step (not jump) off and on. There is a 360 degree handrail protected walk around. My wife can easily drop a line over a cleat from anywhere on the deck. (Unsolicited marital advice…. Your first purchase for the boat should be a pair of Eartec headsets.)

3. Lastly, NEVER assume a boat is your “last boat”. I have said that on several occasions and I was wrong. (The larger the boat the smaller the market if you decide you made a mistake.)

You’re off on a big adventure! Good luck!

 

[Crux]

On the Cat 3196.....was used on many boats of this size range....suggest due diligence to learn of problems and class action lawsuit.

 

[VNCruzer]

Mike, SSM may find Mobile AL up tombigbe Tennessee River land between lakes then a left on Ohio short stretch then a right at Cairo to do Ol Miss northbound from there

 

[Scrivma1]

Boating on the upper Mississippi 8 years. Currently at major flood stage, current and associated trash crazy. Prudent and risk adverse folks do not go out during flood stage or when close. Have a single Yanmar six cylinder 370 hp on a 38 ft Trawler. Bow and stern thrusters. Does fine at normal flow unless above 20 mph winds. From my experience, Mississippi above St. Louis, may have some challenges with size and draft you are considering, Locks, traffic, anchorage’s and Marinas for restocking. Rarely see boats above 50 ft.Doable yes, cruise ships make it…..

 

[OldDan1943]

“Major flood stage”? How can that be? It is not mentioned on the national news.

 

[Comodave]

I used to sell boats part time as a hobby, I got to talk boats with people so I had fun. I had a customer ask me to show him a 30’ cruiser. I did and in our discussion he said that it was his first boat. Also that none of the other dealers sales people wanted to talk 30’ or so cruisers with him. I asked him why not and he said because they all told him to buy a small boat first to learn on. He said I was the first salesman to take him seriously. I said that if it were me I would buy the boat I wanted and then spend the time to learn how to run it properly and safely. I ended up selling him the boat and then spent about 4 days on the boat teaching him how to run it. I also told him to take a boating class, or several.

He did his homework and kept the boat for about 5 years until he was getting to old, his words, and then he sold the boat. But he said that in the 5 years he accomplished all of his boating goals.

You are looking at some large boats. So start now and do all of your homework. Take some classes on boating, navigation and boat maintenance. Find a captain that will spend time teaching you how to run the boat, set aside enough money to pay for the training. Find out what insurance you can get and what they require as far as your training.

Then go out and buy your dream and have fun.

 

[Delta Riverat]

You sound like my broker when we were shopping.

Me - "I don't know how to run this thing so much bigger than my outboards"

Broker - "We have captains to train you"

Better answer than another broker who told us "Join the Power Squadron"

Which I did after I bought the boat from the first broker and got trained by the broker's captain.

 

[Comodave]

The difference was that I took the time to train him…

 

[rpackard]

Unless you desire the long commute on the Miss. River I suggest you buy an appropriate winter boat and leave it in warm places and another boat for the summer where you live. For many years I did just that. A winter boat in Mexico and a summer boat in Alaska. (Also a spring-fall sailboat on SF Bay).

It does not seem logical buying a boat designed for the long Miss. commute when that commute is not rally necessary. Keep in mind that a big boat will be a constant source of aggravation for repairs, I don't care how experienced you are with machinery. These beasts are not built to be easily serviced and, as you inevitably age, it will be increasingly difficult to contort yourself to do repairs. Even with a stand up engine room, the part you will need to access will often be difficult to reach. Further, you will be often frustrated by the "workmanship" from so-called mechanics nd experts who probably will know less than you.

Good luck in your coming adventures.

Richard