Forward Slope Pilot House Windows

[Nomad Willy]

It’s mostly about how a boat looks.

And boats designed w raked fwd. don’t easily convert to raked back. Or visa-versa.

Look at what windows are on highly respected brand trawlers. That would imply what builders think about what buyers think. Both should have valid knowledge about the question of what window is most sellable and that should/may shed some light on it.

I personally prefer windows w a slight aft slant.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Quite literally, Krogen built the Manatee 36 in both configurations, the conventional set up of windshield raked back and a few North Sea examples were made with forward raked windshields. I have been so entertained by the comments regarding forward raked windshields in past forum threads over the years. It’s almost as if it is an emotional thing!

Anyway, thanks to many other Manatee owners stopping by to look and compare the features of one another’s boats, I’ve had lots of opportunity to observe the advantages and disadvantages of both configurations on the same model. Here’s a list of what seems obvious.

Forward Raked plusses over conventional:

-Cooler, always in shade unless near sunset.
-Much roomier feel at helm.
-Gobs of space for overhead cabinetry.
-3.5’ x 8’ more roof for solar.
-Sliding windows at both sides of helm.
-No instrument reflection at night.
-No wipers needed. Rain blows down windshield.
-Exterior easy to clean.
-Glare feels less, easy on the eyes.

Minuses:

-A bitch to clean inside. Must kneel on chart tables (dash) to reach top.
-Heavier, approx. 150 lbs. or so way up top.
-Overhead dome lights are a no-no while underway at night...bad reflection.
-That feel-good morning warmth in northern climates not as apparent.

Yes to all the above. But the way they look is most important in a yacht .. and rec trawlers are yachts.
The raked back windows will usually look better. Look at Larry’s pics of a trawler and see. I personally can’t imagine one thinking the raked fwd windows are better looking. Opinion? Yes. But I may have some qualifications.

Fwd may look cool or stylish on some to many boats and cool and stylish sells boats. But re looks raked back does look better. I’m talking about how the shapes relate to each other. How the lines flow, fight w each other or blend.
But Larry points out well that raked fwd has many advantages. Could Larry have found more advantages to raked back? I can think of many other reasons but none are more important than how they look .. to most people.

 

[psneeld]

To some people, raked back antennas look good too....

Those in the know just laugh or don't care what the uneducated like.... sure marketing sells to the majority....oh well....again I don't care and I know better about slanted windows.

 

[Mako]

Interesting point about not even bothering with wipers, although I haven't experienced that. My big boat had pneumatic wipers. 100% foolproof, but noisy I have to admit.

 

[skyhawk]

the thing about what looks good...or better...is a funny one.

To me...and what prompted me to start this thread, was the fact that I actually like the forward sloped design better. I'm not always the most stylish person though...and function carries weight in my overall calculations along with style.... and I've always been drawn to shade over glare....

 

[Nomad Willy]

skyhawk,
I’d say you are style conscious.
And there are many other function over form here.
There’s lots of reasons raked fwd is stylish among trawler people.

However from a design and art standpoint raked back looks better. Imagine how silly a car would look w raked fwd windshields? Just how it would look.

And if north sea trawlers all had raked back windshields perhaps it would not have occurred to trawler people to rake theirs fwd .... ?

But as you can see in my avatar I have no dog in the race.

 

[rslifkin]

I think which looks better depends on the general design of the boat. A raised pilothouse can be made to look good either way, to depending on other design features. Other styles of boat typically look better with the windows raked back. But too much rake doesn't look great either.

 

[OldDan1943]

Ice work = Clear View screen...

They are expensive. Years ago, I looked into one for my N46.
When I got the estimate, I dropped that idea.

Remove the glass section near the helm.
Cut new piece of glass
Drill the hole
Temper the glass
Install the Clear View
Install the glass
Hook everything up.

 

[healhustler]

Agree with Eric. Any given design may look better or worse with each. Erics boat hits dead center with the boat’s posture. Just the right touch on windshield rake to be balanced, IMO. Now take the North Pacific 43 and 45. I love the 43 but in my opinion they missed it with a sharp rake back, and then hit dead center with the 45, changing the whole postural impression with a superbly tasteful rake forward. It’s just right.

One can’t make a KK Manatee a good looking boat with a windshield rake, but take a look at the three examples below. All three of these roof lines were done by Jim Krogen. The first one is endearing (goes with the boat’s character), the second one is cute (but hardly substantial) and the third one I hacked off a KK Whaleback (a brute of a boat) that leaves one with an entirely different impression. Stout pillars and smaller windows speak volumes, but the boat’s title and character is “Manatee”, not Whaleback.

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

They are expensive. Years ago, I looked into one for my N46.
When I got the estimate, I dropped that idea.

Remove the glass section near the helm.
Cut new piece of glass
Drill the hole
Temper the glass
Install the Clear View
Install the glass
Hook everything up.

Of course they are expensive. ....like everything else labelled marine or boat related.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Larry,
I agree w everything.
The lower (#3) pic of yours accommodates the boat as a whole. All lines and shapes they create produces no awkward conversions or other relationships. With #1 pic the slope of the fore-cabin dominates everything. Too powerful of a line. In the bottom pic the fwd face is broken up as to eliminate the domination function. I can’t explain this but the darker hull seems to be part of the improvement. I would create another 2-3” belt line ctr on the FB part of the cabin (just below the name-plate). This would further break up the fwd slope line and make the FB look .. not so tall.

 

[markpierce]

I see only advantage in forward-leaning pilothouse windows. Practicality beats some peoples' claims of appearance.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Yes Mark,
Your boat is highly suited for them. Looks very good.

 

[boathealer]

I see only advantage in forward-leaning pilothouse windows.

Yup.

 

[Mako]

Personally I never liked using clearvues. Tiny little portal to look through, like using a periscope. I figure if I ever were going to commit that much money then I'd rather go with linear wipers. However, best bang for the buck is pantographs IMO.

 

[Jon H]

I rarely see clearview's on commercial vessels anymore unless they are
quite old.

Heat traced windows, either filament embedded in the glass or as a film
overlay have taken their place.

 

[Solly]

I like the look too but it would be pretty far down the list of 'must haves'....

 

[OldDan1943]

The Clear View fell off my list when I got the price.

To me, the fwd-leaning pilot house glass looks more 'salty' too.

 

[TheAtomicDog]

Forward tilt for the win.

Speaking of clearviews, I have removed my clearview and will be in the States in a few weeks. 24v Soviet clear view. It's huge and weighty, so I will only bring it if someone rEEEEAAAlly wants it. Can provide some pics if anyone is interested. I wanted to keep it but too complicated to have it remounted here.

 

[Alaskaflyer]

And then…

 

[Nomad Willy]

Dan in post #48 wrote;
“fwd-leaning pilot house glass looks more 'salty' too.”

Dan you NAILED it.
Radical sheers, fantail sterns and all manner of similar things including the word “trawler”.

And anything common to bigger boats command similar attention like low rpm engines.

At times this is a pop show.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Alaskaflyer;

I wouldn’t have a radical windshield like that.
Rain beaded up on that windshield would be hard to see through.
Excellent wipers would be a must.

As to stylish ..... ???
But the NA probably thought they were .... or the customer ...

An afterthought, A big sea would easily rush over it. Minimal chance of damage.

 

[OldDan1943]

Question, if fwd-leaning pilot house windows are ineffective or only for show, why is the spray shield on the fly bridge fwd-leaning (smirk)

 

[psneeld]

Question, if fwd-leaning pilot house windows are ineffective or only for show, why is the spray shield on the fly bridge fwd-leaning (smirk)

In my experience they are commonly know as a venturi to deflect the wind/spray up and over the seat positions there....not sure the pilothouse window rake is for the same reason.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Question, if fwd-leaning pilot house windows are ineffective or only for show, why is the spray shield on the fly bridge fwd-leaning (smirk)

It’s an aerodynamic feature.
Not a style feature.

 

[markpierce]

I've lost count of the myriad advantages of forward-leaning pilothouse windows.

 

[Peter B]

Healhustler photo-shopped Lotus with each type of window angle some years ago, when this subject came up. I would go for the forward sloping windows and sacrifice the flybridge in a heartbeat, for mine...

I think a feature that enhances the look, but at a sort of subliminal level, is that without being conscious of it, apart from the practical advantages mentioned, the rake sort of matches that of the bow.

 

[MikeM]

Ours are overhanging. When we bought Badger the wipers were shot, so I took them off with every intension of ordering a new pair, and didn't.

That was over 10 years ago.

We used Rain-X for a while, then discovered Lysol wipes work just as well. Water just beads up until they reach critical mass, then run down the window.

I can vouch for effectiveness both for driving rain and spray coming over the bow.

Our windows are also forward raked. I never use the wipers and was about to remove them. Then I thought about the fog we are going to encounter in Maine this summer, and decided to leave them for now. Can anyone speak to whether or not wipers are needed in fog with forward raked windows?

 

[JOHN CLAYMAN]

The thread has addressed most of the advantages of wheelhouse windows with a forward rake. As a designer & builder of seagoing trawlers, we only build boats with forward raking wheelhouse windows because: They shed water better, transmit less solar radiation, have less glare at night, provide for more interior space and are more resistent to shattering from green water impact. However if you find a fantastic trawler within your budget with aft sloping windows as is trypical on inshore motoryachts, perhaps you should not pass. It's unlikely you will ever see a naval vessel with aft sloping windows, while sexy not practical.

 

[Finnegus]

I have them on my current boat and love them. They do have a lot less glare. They protect you from baking under glass when it is sunny. I cruse a lot on the Pacific coast and they are much better at keeping water off in rough weather. In my old boat any water that got on the trunk cabin roof tended to get pushed up the window by wind. It goes around the front slant windows. Having had both the only reason I can think of for rear slant is as another poster said "looks Sleek". My boat has zero issues with wind resistance so I would hate to ever go with rear slope.