Fresh Water Hoses Single Crimp?

[rclarke246]

Hello,

I'm new to all of this stuff but learning as fast as I can!

Is it customary to use only a single crimped ring on the fresh water fittings and connections?

While I do see double worm-gear hose clamps around the fresh water pump the branch lines down stream have only a single crimp. I have found 4 small leaks so far.

Of course, if one of these fittings fails with the water pump energized I could find all of my fresh water in my bilge or above!

Seems to me to be a mistake in design or application. The boat is still under warranty.

 

[rwidman]

If the water from your tanks leaks into the bilge, the bilge pumps should pump most of it out. An inconvenience but not a sinking.

If you are connected to city water, the boat could sink as there is an unlimited supply of water.

What do you mean by a "single crimp"? One hose clamp or something else?

One clamp isn't a problem but it shouldn't be leaking especially on a new boat.

 

[rclarke246]

I haven't tested my (automatic) bilge pump yet, but I intend to do so soon.
The branch lines are tightened to the nylon fittings with a single crimped band, not the adjustable worm-gear style. These bands must be installed with a special tool.

 

[rwidman]

I haven't tested my (automatic) bilge pump yet, but I intend to do so soon.
The branch lines are tightened to the nylon fittings with a single crimped band, not the adjustable worm-gear style. These bands must be installed with a special tool.

If they are leaking, that should be a warranty issue. I would be tempted to replace them with high quality marine hose clamps but not until the warranty is up. You could buy them now just in case you have to make a repair yourself away from home.

 

[psneeld]

Do you have vinyl hoses or pex (or similar)????

Pex is only going to have one unles somebody got creative at the pump or used vinyl to decrease vibration.

 

[HenryD]

RClarke

It sounds like you have PEX plumbing with a single compression band around them. This is common for PEX and usually works very well. The hard part with PEX in boats is finding out if you have the 15mm that Whale and SeaTech sell or if you have 1/2", 5/8" or 3/4" that Lowes, Homedepot and other home hardware stores sell.
With PEX you can also use the push-in connectors that Whale, SeaTech and Sharkbite sell.
Last month I had a bronze PEX fitting fail and my freshwater pump put 300 gallons into my starboard bilge, drowning two vacuum generators and causing the boat to list. I now have a water alarm in all bilge spaces.

 

[rwidman]

PEX and such should be labeled with type, size and manufacturer along the length of the tubing.

 

[DavidM]

As others have noted, it sounds like you have PEX tubing and fittings. The crimps are made with a pliers like tool that you can often rent at your hardware store. They are much tighter than can be easily achieved with hose clamps, so replace them with PEX crimps only.

David

 

[Shoalwaters]

. . The branch lines are tightened to the nylon fittings with a single crimped band, not the adjustable worm-gear style. These bands must be installed with a special tool.

Can you get a photo of a typical joint so that we know what type of system you have. In my experience the Pex joints shown in rwidman's photos do not leak if correctly assembled. I would have expected this, or something of similar quality, on a new production boat.

 

[rwidman]

Amazon.com: qest fittings

Or Ace Hardware.

The crimps are fast and easy when manufacturing a boat and they are pretty standard for residential construction but if you're on your boat, away from home or don't have the special tool, you could have a problem. With the fittings I have I can take things apart and put them back together easily with standard tools.

 

[caltexflanc]

This is definitely one for the boat manufacturer. We can only speculate, and they should fix this.

 

[rclarke246]

Here are 2 photos.

The red and blue lines are the fresh water lines.
The one with the braided lines come to/from the water heater where quick-connect fittings are used, which are leaking too.

I think that I'm going to just buy a bunch of worm-gear hose clamps and double up on those that I can access.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. r. As others have said, it's a warranty issue. IF you start altering/repairing stuff yourself, it may void warranties. Get the dealer to deal with it to your satisfaction. If it were me, I'd connect it up to city water (higher pressure) and see what pops.

 

[rwidman]

Hose clamps will not work on what you have there.

 

[BruceK]

You have a better chance of success if the plastic connector fitting has barbed ends.
I had a problem, twice, with a reinforced plastic hose going onto a copper tube coming loose, dropping most of our 270 gals of water into the bilge. The bilge pump did it`s job, adding a second hose clamp appears to have fixed the problem.
Use your warranty to get the system changed to fittings that seal. That red hose might just keep compressing. I can`t see adding a second hoseclamp jeopardizing your warranty.

 

[caltexflanc]

Bearing down on those fittings with worm drive clamps could very well cause more problems down the road, if not immediately, than it solves.

 

[rwidman]

.............That red hose might just keep compressing. I can`t see adding a second hoseclamp jeopardizing your warranty.

Go to the home center and ask to see a piece of PEX tubing. Look at it and feel it. It's not at all like vinyl hose and it's not soft enough for a worm drive hose clamp to work for connecting it to a fitting. The crimp used in his boat is very specific and must be installed to a specific tension with a specific tool.

PEX tubing only works with PEX compatible fittings and that might be the problem here with the leaks. The fittings may be intended for vinyl hose and not PEX tubing.

The dealer should make repairs to eliminate the leaks. The problem I see with the crimp connectors (even with the correct fittings) is that it will be difficult to make repairs in the future, especially away from home. With the fittings on my boat, two pairs of pliers and a tubing cutter or knife is all that's needed.

 

[sunchaser]

Just an aside, the piping work on the Camano Troll is very nice looking and the Beneteau a bit haphazard. I'd agree with others, get the manufacturer to fix things up.

 

[Aquabelle]

And turn your fresh water pump breaker off when dockside and off the boat

 

[rclarke246]

Bearing down on those fittings with worm drive clamps could very well cause more problems down the road, if not immediately, than it solves.

I don't get it. There is a nylon or plastic fitting that the hose slides onto so the hose won't keep compressing to the point of distortion, and I'm careful to not over tighten.

The crimp rings that are now being used snug the hose tight to the fitting just as a worm gear clamp does. The one leak that my dealer fixed was fixed with a worm gear clamp.

Totally agree to let this happen under warranty. The crimp rings are a pain for several reasons

Thanks to all for your thoughtful comments.

 

[rwidman]

If you do a little research on PEX fittings I think you will find that all the barbed fittings intended for PEX tubing are made of brass, not plastic or nylon. Plastic or nylon barbed fittings are fine for the softer vinyl tubing but I suspect there's a very fine line between compressing the harder PEX tubing to conform to the plastic or nylon barbed fittings enough to prevent leaks or blowing off and cracking the fittings.

http://www.supplyhouse.com/PEX-Fittings-37000

Of course it's your boat and your decision but I wouldn't count on the dealer to do it "right", only to do enough to send you on your way.

 

[rclarke246]

After looking at the PEX fitting link it's obvious that I do not have them. There is a brand on these hoses but I don't remember what it is. I'll get it and post it here.
Again, thanks!

 

[psneeld]

Plastic is a very common pex fitting...some prefer it rather than adding cheaper brass in the marine environment...

Fittings - PEX Pipe & Fittings - Pipes, Fittings & Valves - Plumbing at The Home Depot

 

[caltexflanc]

I don't get it. There is a nylon or plastic fitting that the hose slides onto so the hose won't keep compressing to the point of distortion, and I'm careful to not over tighten.

The crimp rings that are now being used snug the hose tight to the fitting just as a worm gear clamp does. The one leak that my dealer fixed was fixed with a worm gear clamp.

Totally agree to let this happen under warranty. The crimp rings are a pain for several reasons

Thanks to all for your thoughtful comments.

The operative words in my post are "bearing down". If the fitting is not designed for clamps that can be torqued down beyond their capacity....
And the design of the fitting is not going to mate well with the type of hose being fitted....

 

[greysailor]

I don't get it. There is a nylon or plastic fitting that the hose slides onto so the hose won't keep compressing to the point of distortion, and I'm careful to not over tighten.
The crimp rings that are now being used snug the hose tight to the fitting just as a worm gear clamp does. The one leak that my dealer fixed was fixed with a worm gear clamp.

rclarke246,
I've dealt with PEX on my boats and RVs, and bought a PEX crimp tool at hardware store. PEX tubing is stiffer than most plastic water tubing you may have dealt with in the past. While you may be able to crank down on a screw type hose clamp far enough to hold pressure, the tiny clamp will be stressed far beyond it's intended use range. I have made emergency repairs to PEX using hose clamps, but I first warmed the tubing with a hair dryer so that it was a little more pliable. However, there is no way I'd trust a hose clamp any longer than it would take to get a proper PEX clamp crimped in its place.

 

[C lectric]

Those clamps are NOT pex. They are called 'O'clamps and made by OETIKER.
Some Other mfgs. may have copied them as I have seen some that did not have the Oetiker stamp but look for Oetiker.
Look them up. There are single ear and double ear clamps, plated steel AND SS
They must be set with a pincer type plier. The same plier can be used to cut them off.
I stopped using the single ear type years ago for the reason you are finding, leaks. I use only the double ear type now except for very tiny hoses, under 1/4" od

The clamps and pliers are cheap enough. They do require the proper sizing to the hose/tube or they will be too tight or loose.
They are good clamps and properly chosen and set will hold reliably in applications like this.

Part of the problem could be the nylon ftgs. If they are a light wall they may not like the clamp pressure especially those used in the hot water circuit, softening and collapsing with the heat and pressure.

Get the double ear type.

This should be warranty work.

 

[rwidman]

............. This should be warranty work.

The fact that the dealer used a hose clamp for the first warranty repair is troubling. Either the dealer felt that the factory job was unsatisfactory or the dealer didn't know how to make a proper repair.

 

[bligh]

The pex clamps put an amazing amount of pressure on the tubing and the fitting. A hose clamp could come nowhere hear that amount of pressure. The pex clamps shown in the picture are the older style automotive clamps.
When we used those they did their job very well. Leaks could be due to an uncalibrated tool or an inexperienced installer. If you have one leak, typically the fitting needs to be cut out and a new one installed.

 

[bligh]

Is this the style of clamp on the pipe?
HCL0500 - HydroPEX HCL0500 - 1/2" Stainless Steel Clamp (100/bag)

 

[rclarke246]

Is this the style of clamp on the pipe?
HCL0500 - HydroPEX HCL0500 - 1/2" Stainless Steel Clamp (100/bag)

No, mine do not look like that. Mine have an aluminum look to them. I suppose the one shown in the link is the "double eared" one referenced previously mentioned by C lectric