Fuel flow installation choice - hose or fittings

[rgano]

I ended up with an installed Floscan because at the time I was only looking for a digital tach to replace the inaccurate Faria analog unit with its digital hour meter. For a planing boat, I felt accurate RPM was essential as an onging diagnostic tool, and now I feel that way about the fuel meter too. I found that by the time I got done buying the digital tach, I could just as easily buy the Floscan I purchased at a discount from another member who had bought but never installed it achieving accurate tach/hours/fuel usage. I had to use a door bell ringer transformer to run the digital tach up the engine hours I had on the Faria - yes I am that anal. I am very happy with the unit as a whole. I personally would not buy such a high dollar unit as a Floscan for simply a one time fuel usage measurement because you could temporarily plumb a measured container if you only wish to have very specific RPM ranges measure. For a twin-engine boat with a single fuel flow measuring system, why not plumb in a simple manifold for the unit allowing one engine at a time to be accurately measured?

 

[Solly]

5/8" is awfully big for a fuel line. Mine on a 200 hp Perkins is 3/8"
If the engines really need a fuel line that big I wouldn't want to neck it down to 1/4" at the sensors. Might restrict the flow too much.

Copper pipe is fairly easy to cut and flare. Figure where you want the sensors and cut a short piece out, flare it and go.

 

[Xsbank]

Rich, that looks like an easy install but was part of it to secure that fuel line? That long unsupported line anchored by only one hose clamp looks like an “incident” waiting for the worst moment to let go.

 

[rgano]

It's well secured now, thanks.

 

[DougR]

You can easily find new banjo fittings to attach to the lift pump and injection pump. The injection pump is made by Bosch and any good fuel injection shop can supply them. Available with female thread, flare, etc. Also available thru VP. This should expand the options at the engine end without trying to cut the Volvo hoses.

Also, V.P. recommended fuel supply diameter for the TAMD 61 is 3/8".

DougR

 

[Frank Tew]

What system did you purchase as I'm considering a system for my 1985 Detroit 4-71s; I already have a NEMA 2000 backbone in place with Raymarine MFD

 

[Andiamo2018]

I had a rusted high pressure fuel line on an old volvo. In the bay area I found several hydraulic high pressure hose shops. I went to the closest one with my old ends. They didn't have a direct adapter for one end so they used two. Long story short is that they could make pretty much anything I wanted.

They were making hoses for lift trucks, all sort of PTO's and engines etc etc. They had all kinds of fittings and they were just the closest shop, not the biggest or best.

 

[Steve DAntonio]

After crawling around a bit, I found breaks in the return lines where it looks like they upsized the pipes leading back to the tank. Probably depending on which engine type/manufacturer got installed in the boat, these could be essentially universal in terms of the final run to the tank size.

So I definitely could replace the copper piping from/to the engine back to the Racor/return with fuel hose. Each run would be about 6-8' and then I could just cut the hose and use the hose barbs provided with the sensor, mount them on the wall near the filters, etc.

I've never run my own fuel hoses, so I'd want to learn how to put ends on and such so I can do it myself.

Still interested in opinions on the current setup as well.

If you plan to use armored Type A hose (Parker FR221 for instance), it requires proprietary ends, and an installation mandrel kit to install. However, this is a bulletproof system of fuel plumbing, very rugged and reliable. Alternatively you can use ordinary Type A hose and quality clamps. Be sure to not install hose directly over smooth copper tubing, you must use a barbed pipe to hose adapter. This article includes some of these details https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/fuelplumbing.pdf

Interestingly, while copper is strong and fire resistant, it is somewhat detrimental to diesel fuel, and not considered the ideal means of fuel transport. Copper contains oxygen, which oxidizes diesel fuel. I don't condemn copper fuel lines by any means, I simply would not choose it as a means of supplying fuel in a new build or refit.

 

[stevemitchell]

You can easily find new banjo fittings to attach to the lift pump and injection pump. The injection pump is made by Bosch and any good fuel injection shop can supply them. Available with female thread, flare, etc. Also available thru VP. This should expand the options at the engine end without trying to cut the Volvo hoses.

Also, V.P. recommended fuel supply diameter for the TAMD 61 is 3/8".

DougR

Thanks for the details on a fuel injection shop - hadn't thought of that, but they definitely could provide a hose for that end. I highly doubt VP would be any help - both of my local VP dealers barely remember what a TAMD engine is, and have been mostly worthless when it comes to spare parts or any help. I have found most of my parts online myself, so perhaps I could find a different size/end one there for sure.

The hose is 3/8" ID and the copper lines supplying it are even bigger. Part of my concern with using this other fuel meter was that its inlet port was quite tiny.

What system did you purchase as I'm considering a system for my 1985 Detroit 4-71s; I already have a NEMA 2000 backbone in place with Raymarine MFD

I will be putting a Maretron system in. I've used them on two other boats, and worked on a number of others. They have standard size inlet ports (depending on the sensor/engine/horespower of course) from 1/4" to 1/2" NPT that would be much easier to adapt to, a much smaller sensor that wouldn't be creating as big of a weight issue on the hose, and also deal with temperature differentials in the fuel, which the other solution did not appear to have.

 

[ORIF]

I've been down in the weeds like that with hose fittings. Fun until you hit dead ends.
I added an Optio fuel flow meter a while back and updated my hoses at the same time. With hose, at least if you had to take the sensor out you can splice the hose back with a double ended barb and hose clamps and would only need to know the hose inside diameter. Easier parts to source if you're in a remote area and don't have luxury of being able to take your hoses in to a shop...

 

[stevemitchell]

If you plan to use armored Type A hose (Parker FR221 for instance), it requires proprietary ends, and an installation mandrel kit to install. However, this is a bulletproof system of fuel plumbing, very rugged and reliable. Alternatively you can use ordinary Type A hose and quality clamps. Be sure to not install hose directly over smooth copper tubing, you must use a barbed pipe to hose adapter. This article includes some of these details https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/fuelplumbing.pdf

I don't think I'll be replacing the copper runs to and from the engine right now, although it would make this setup quite a bit easier. When I did investigate that possibility, I would have been using armored type A - there's a system that I think I found that allowed screw on ends with a vise or wrenches that was almost equivalent to a mandrel install.

Thanks for the link to your article - I had actually read that a year ago or so, but it is good to have the link again. It contains a lot of good info on fuel piping and considerations.

 

[Panacea123]

Thanks. I’ve already selected a vendor. All of them have similar installs as they need a sensor inline.

I’m looking for opinions on whether to cut the hose (Floscan does this in many installs I’ve seen) or try to do something with flanges and tubing.

Interested in vendor?
Flowscan still does not make diesel meters according to website, when they did very expensive.
Who is making diesel meters at a reasonable price?
Thanks

 

[ORIF]

Interested in vendor?
Flowscan still does not make diesel meters according to website, when they did very expensive.
Who is making diesel meters at a reasonable price?
Thanks

https://www.interactio.co/
Easy install, decent price (especially compared to Flowscan), and seems to work.
I installed on one of my 2 engines since they each have a dedicated tank.

 

[DougR]

Thanks for the details on a fuel injection shop - hadn't thought of that, but they definitely could provide a hose for that end. I highly doubt VP would be any help - both of my local VP dealers barely remember what a TAMD engine is, and have been mostly worthless when it comes to spare parts or any help. I have found most of my parts online myself, so perhaps I could find a different size/end one there for sure.

Sorry to hear that.......there used to be a lot of Volvo diesel expertise at Coastal Marine Engine in Ballard and also Pacific Detroit Diesel ( Pacific Power Systems) in Kent.

DougR

 

[Steve DAntonio]

I don't think I'll be replacing the copper runs to and from the engine right now, although it would make this setup quite a bit easier. When I did investigate that possibility, I would have been using armored type A - there's a system that I think I found that allowed screw on ends with a vise or wrenches that was almost equivalent to a mandrel install.

Thanks for the link to your article - I had actually read that a year ago or so, but it is good to have the link again. It contains a lot of good info on fuel piping and considerations.

The Parker FR221 hose does use screw on ends, you use a vice, but you must use the mandrel kit to prevent the ends from damaging the hose when installed.

 

[stevemitchell]

Sorry to hear that.......there used to be a lot of Volvo diesel expertise at Coastal Marine Engine in Ballard and also Pacific Detroit Diesel ( Pacific Power Systems) in Kent.

DougR

I'm sure there still is, but not for these engines. I've had 3 VPs in the last 20 years, and Coastal did all of my work on them. In fact, I had one boat repowered that they handled extremely well, and I was very pleased with the new VP they put in.

I won't go into details on my experience in the last year, but suffice to say, I'm on my own for now, not by choice.