mbevins
Guru
Only when Mom and Dad are around. ?Hm.... and I would have thought that Jeffrey's dogs would have been vegan?
Garmin buys ActiveCaptain
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I bought my Garmin gear three years ago. A year or two later, they added AC support so that I can load AC data to an SD card and insert it into my plotter.
BUT... they won't update the firmware on my plotter to read that data.
I've come to the conclusion that Garmin expects you to replace all your electronics every couple of years.
If you do that, you'll love them. They have some great stuff. It's the support for "legacy" (one- to two-year old) systems where they really fall flat.
I should add that by support I don't just mean fixing broken things, I mean improving functionality. For example, firmware updates to allow you to read and display AC data.
At any rate, I congratulate Jeffrey and Karen, and wish them the best.
I will personally wait and see how it goes, but I can assure you I won't be doing any more free data entry for Garmin. A cynical person could conclude that Jeff and Karen got paid for selling the fruits of MY labor to Garmin. I hasten to add that I don't feel that way...yet. We'll see.
Capt.Bill11
Guru
Not exactly. Because personally, I'm not a fan of the person.
Perhaps at least now we could contact Garmin and get are old accounts reopened.
Capt.Bill11
Guru
Speaking of which, did anyone ever look and see if our reviews and such are still in the content there?
Or did the little man remove all that as well?
Or did the little man remove all that as well?
sunchaser
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I remain fixated with cruising guides that come on bound paper, have contact information for the places we want to visit and word of mouth. This fixation will allow me to lose no sleep over Garmin's current acquisition. This is the new world of Apps, here today and gone tomorrow.
These bound paper guides, known as books to us senior citizens, have all sorts of worthwhile information. As I peruse them when cruising and well out of cell or internet range, I find amazing things carried therein. Like the moose eaten by Orcas, sailboat sunk by a whale, brown bears chasing German shepards. You name it!
These bound paper guides, known as books to us senior citizens, have all sorts of worthwhile information. As I peruse them when cruising and well out of cell or internet range, I find amazing things carried therein. Like the moose eaten by Orcas, sailboat sunk by a whale, brown bears chasing German shepards. You name it!
Here's a post on Panbo from May 11 about the acquisition, "Garmin acquires ActiveCaptain, now what?"
Panbo: The Marine Electronics Hub: Garmin acquires ActiveCaptain, now what?
Panbo: The Marine Electronics Hub: Garmin acquires ActiveCaptain, now what?
I share your enthusiasm for printed guides. I have and use a bunch of them.
But the dream of AC is that in addition to locations, reviews, contact information and tons of little details about each, we'd also have access to reviews by real cruisers like us (and some not like us.) We'd have recent, first-hand information that no printed guide would have room for, even if it were updated daily.
The form factor is also important. Guide books are great reading, and many have quick reference tables of locations, which come in handy underway. But AC data is independent of the form factor. It can be sorted, filtered and displayed in ways we haven't even thought of yet, all in real time on our hand-held and fixed-mount devices while underway.
Another huge advantage to crowd-sourced data is that it's not beholden to any financial interests. Some guides only list marinas, not anchorages. Some only print marinas that pay tribute to the publisher, or belong to the chamber of commerce for the coverage area, or whatever. Even then, not all marinas can take the time to send updated information to all the guide publishers.
There are lots of different companies who list crowd-sourced reviews of restaurants and hotels, for example.
But marinas and anchorages aren't restaurants or hotels. The customer base is much smaller. There are far fewer reviews, even on AC (the most popular US boating database) than you'll see for even the most out-of-the way hotel or B&B on Google or Trip Adviser.
I suspect that the marketplace just isn't big enough for very many different crowd-sourced cruising databases. If there isn't a clear winner, that all the manufacturers can get behind, then the data will be diluted and go stale to the point of uselessness.
RT Firefly
Enigma
Greetings,
While I DO have some older, slightly above entry level, Garmin equipment on board AND I do really like it, it burns my biscuits that I have to pay $$ for "upgrades" when most, if not all, information is available free on line.
I fully understand the profits involved for Garmin BUT the competition does not seem to be so, for want of a better word, greedy.
While I DO have some older, slightly above entry level, Garmin equipment on board AND I do really like it, it burns my biscuits that I have to pay $$ for "upgrades" when most, if not all, information is available free on line.
I fully understand the profits involved for Garmin BUT the competition does not seem to be so, for want of a better word, greedy.
Capt.Bill11
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sunchaser
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Capt Tom
I understand what you are saying. But crowd sourced marina data for where we cruise can be scanty at best and wrong at worst. Just recently there were some comments on TF about a marina experience that is counter to what many of us have figured out how to deal with. Likewise, we heard raves about places that were much different than what we experienced. The bitches and likes can indeed be puzzling as I see them pop up and run counter to our knowledge and experience.
So as with the founder of AC, personal bias can well intrude on an otherwise good thing. The fact that an I phone can pull AC marina information is great, but not all of us are 100% in cell range. Kinda nice too, we need to make our own decisions and plan ahead.
I understand what you are saying. But crowd sourced marina data for where we cruise can be scanty at best and wrong at worst. Just recently there were some comments on TF about a marina experience that is counter to what many of us have figured out how to deal with. Likewise, we heard raves about places that were much different than what we experienced. The bitches and likes can indeed be puzzling as I see them pop up and run counter to our knowledge and experience.
So as with the founder of AC, personal bias can well intrude on an otherwise good thing. The fact that an I phone can pull AC marina information is great, but not all of us are 100% in cell range. Kinda nice too, we need to make our own decisions and plan ahead.
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Tom, aren’t you really, really scared, that you might end up in a spot no one has been, reviewed or posted when's happy hour?sunchaser; said:
I wretch when reading some of Murray M’s adventures into foggy solitude. No age reference there.
...See you in 3-4
Capt Tom
I understand what you are saying. But crowd sourced marina data for where we cruise can be scanty at best and wrong at worst. Just recently there were some comments on TF about a marina experience that is counter to what many of us have figured out how to deal with. Likewise, we heard raves about places that were much different than what we experienced. The bitches and likes can indeed be puzzling as I see them pop up and run counter to our knowledge and experience.
So as with the founder of AC, personal bias can well intrude on an otherwise good thing. The fact that an I phone can pull AC marina information is great, but not all of us are 100% in cell range. Kinda nice too, we need to make our own decisions and plan ahead.
There are good reviews, bad reviews, and reviews that I can rely on being the exact opposite of my own opinion. The trick in any crowd-sourced app is being able to find the information you want, and ignore the opinions of those with different criteria. My own marina has a bad review because someone showed up there thinking it was a restaurant, and wasn't served lunch!
I try to stay out of cell phone range, although it's getting harder all the time. But that doesn't keep me from using the AC data pre-loaded on any number of apps on my phone, laptop and tablet.
I actually look for those spots. If it's a good spot, I'll add a review. If it's a great spot, I might just keep it to myself
rclarke246
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Seems to me that Garmin made an excellent move.
Offering AC as overlays on their chart plotters is another competitive advantage for Garmin.
I guess that they'll charge their competitors a fee for similar access.
Jeff and Karen deserve everything the get. Hard working, and very smart folks who have made boating much better. Thank you!
Offering AC as overlays on their chart plotters is another competitive advantage for Garmin.
I guess that they'll charge their competitors a fee for similar access.
Jeff and Karen deserve everything the get. Hard working, and very smart folks who have made boating much better. Thank you!
MYTraveler
Guru
I doubt they bought AC for the technology, which seems pretty basic. Instead, Garmin was no doubt attracted to an installed userbase of 250,000. And, I suspect, they will continue to make the product available to all users - not just Garmin users, although some features / ease of use may be limited to Garmin users. That will serve the dual purpose of providing content with maximum value and steering non-garmin users toward garmin products. More importantly, if they don't offer broad appeal someone else will. I don't know what they paid, and so far, I haven't seen any info about that. (I purchased some stock at the end of '15, and more in early '16 when the price dropped, and therefore monitor news that could affect the stock price. Maybe next week there will be some info in that regard. In any event, the price is certainly not high enough to require disclosure, given Garmin's market cap and corresponding materiality threshold for matters like this.)
Regardless of the price, they won't losing the value of the installed user base.
Where in the world did you come up with the user base of 250,000? I see...from their site. Current, active users would be much smaller number.
You'll never see what they paid. It's not material for them. Very material for Jeffrey.
The real value is the existing data and the ability to add more.
Capt.Bill11
Guru
"Jeff Siegel, a serial entrepreneur whose Active Captain (URL) is an online charting information add-on and boater network with 1.5 million members worldwide."
I'm assuming that 1.5 million number comes from Jeffrey.
So consider the source.
"Jeff Siegel, a serial entrepreneur whose Active Captain (URL) is an online charting information add-on and boater network with 1.5 million members worldwide."
I'm assuming that 1.5 million number comes from Jeffrey.
So consider the source.
Wow! No one ever doubted his ego, even if his numbers are suspect.
I looked back and found an email from February 2016.
That left one major hole - accessing ActiveCaptain data from your
chartplotter.
Furuno was the first announcing ActiveCaptain support in February, 2015
and providing it in products later the same year. That was a big step.
Today's announcement isn't just a step. It's a leap. And even leap isn't
a big enough word.
This week at the Miami Boat Show, ActiveCaptain support will be
announced for more than 600 models of chartplotters. Not 600 devices but
600 models, incorporating as many as a million in use devices. Support
will include new models, as well as older, legacy models.
We're building a complete list of the chartplotters that will support
ActiveCaptain. The list will include most of the chartplotters from
Simrad, B&G, Lowrance, Raymarine, Sitex, Humminbird, Standard Horizon,
and many others.
So how'd we do it?
Many chartplotters use charts from C-Map. We've worked with C-Map for
the past few years on ActiveCaptain support on their Android Plan2Nav
app. C-Map is well-known for having great worldwide chart support. The
goal was to put ActiveCaptain data onto their different chart products -
4D, MAX-N+, and MAX. It took some great engineering from C-Map
developers who figured out ways to compress and integrate hundreds of
megabytes of ActiveCaptain data onto chipsets that never expected that
much point-of-interest information.
chartplotter.
Furuno was the first announcing ActiveCaptain support in February, 2015
and providing it in products later the same year. That was a big step.
Today's announcement isn't just a step. It's a leap. And even leap isn't
a big enough word.
This week at the Miami Boat Show, ActiveCaptain support will be
announced for more than 600 models of chartplotters. Not 600 devices but
600 models, incorporating as many as a million in use devices. Support
will include new models, as well as older, legacy models.
We're building a complete list of the chartplotters that will support
ActiveCaptain. The list will include most of the chartplotters from
Simrad, B&G, Lowrance, Raymarine, Sitex, Humminbird, Standard Horizon,
and many others.
So how'd we do it?
Many chartplotters use charts from C-Map. We've worked with C-Map for
the past few years on ActiveCaptain support on their Android Plan2Nav
app. C-Map is well-known for having great worldwide chart support. The
goal was to put ActiveCaptain data onto their different chart products -
4D, MAX-N+, and MAX. It took some great engineering from C-Map
developers who figured out ways to compress and integrate hundreds of
megabytes of ActiveCaptain data onto chipsets that never expected that
much point-of-interest information.
Notice no mention of Garmin, just C-Map, and to my knowledge they never went beyond Furuno.
I would think now Garmin can complete and implement and choose what to do regarding themselves and others.
CPseudonym
Moderator Emeritus
"Jeff Siegel, a serial entrepreneur whose Active Captain (URL) is an online charting information add-on and boater network with 1.5 million members worldwide."
I'm assuming that 1.5 million number comes from Jeffrey.
So consider the source.
Jeffrey would never engage in hyperbole
MYTraveler
Guru
I admire your confidence, but it can come off as a little condescending.
Where in the world? It's in a Garmin press release. And the reference (theirs and mine) is to an installed user base, not active users. Of course, the number of current active users is far fewer.
We will have to disagree on what the "real value" is, but I am skeptical that they ascribed much value to the existing data. The ability to add data depends on two things: the software, which from what I can tell is pretty basic, and users to input the data. I believe they bought the users. The software they could easily produce themselves, but without a crowd to source, there won't be any data.
As far as the price ever being released, although I acknowledge that it is not material to Garmin, public companies release lots of financial information that is not material and analysts clamor for that stuff.
I said I saw where you got it. Perhaps you got my draft and not final post.
I'm well aware of what public companies do, having spent 24 years in one. They could toss it in somewhere in a list of acquisitions during the year.
twistedtree
Guru
"Jeff Siegel, a serial entrepreneur whose Active Captain (URL) is an online charting information add-on and boater network with 1.5 million members worldwide."
I'm assuming that 1.5 million number comes from Jeffrey.
So consider the source.
Right, 1.5M from Jeffery, and 250,000 in a press release by a public company with laws and shareholders they are accountable to. The discrepancy doesn't surprise me one bit.
I think this was talked about in another place too.
1.50 million users - the number of boaters worldwide who use ActiveCaptain
0.25 million users - the number who have contributed to the database
So both numbers make sense. Garmin is conservative so they use the smaller number.
I'm not buying into 1.5 million users worldwide at all. That would be 100% market penetration. For example, in the US, there are 270,000 powerboats over 28' and 112,000 sailboats over 28' registered. Most of AC's users are in the US. I'd estimate European boats owned in the same size range to be about 1.5-2.0 million. 85% of the websites visitors are from the US. 8% from Canada. That would indicate they represent over 90% of users of AC.
1.5 million wouldn't be far off the site visitors per year, not unique visitors, but total.
I don't know what 250k could represent. I'm sure some statistical number but not active users.
mbevins
Guru
Based on the number of users discussed, 250K , that would put the acquisition at around $1.25M.
Sorry but I can't see it being sold that low. I know I wouldn't sell at that number. Unless there's a Pandora in a box that was about to be let out.
twistedtree
Guru
You think there are 5-8x more boats in that size range in Europe vs the US?
In total Europe has 5 times the number of boats as the US, so I just used that number for this size too.
seasalt007
Guru
What I am concerned about is that I don't trust the AC reviews of marinas, for example. Each Marina you pull up says if you don't like this one go to this sponsoring marina. Some of his sponsoring marinas I know to be the very definition of crappy. While other non sponsoring ones are very nice.
Follow the money dudes.
Follow the money dudes.
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