Getting off dock against the wind in a Camano

[jhance]

No fenders. No spring line. My rub rail is in contact with a piling. My bow pulpit is between pilings and swings over the dock a little but the only contact is between the rub rail and a piling.

The important thing is to turn your wheel all the way to port or starboard, in my case to starboard, in that I'm secured to the dock with a starboard tie. Do this prior to engaging your transmission in forward gear. DO NOT engage your transmission prior to putting your helm hard over.

The forward motion is minimal. Try it.

I almost always go by myself so handling fenders and spring lines would be too much hassle.

Ah east coast. West coast marinas usually don't have pilings to work with.

 

[GaryPete]

No mention of how to manage getting the spring line off the cleat. Seems like with example 1 you will be 45 degrees off the dock and away from the dock. Assuming you’re not coming back to this dock, how do you get the line aboard? Scratching my head….

 

[SteveK]

No mention of how to manage getting the spring line off the cleat. Seems like with example 1 you will be 45 degrees off the dock and away from the dock. Assuming you’re not coming back to this dock, how do you get the line aboard? Scratching my head….

You must have missed the instructions not to tie to cleat, just round it back to the boat. When ready let go and pull it in.
Meanwhile practice this.

 

[SteveK]

 

[Portage_Bay]

No mention of how to manage getting the spring line off the cleat. Seems like with example 1 you will be 45 degrees off the dock and away from the dock. Assuming you’re not coming back to this dock, how do you get the line aboard? Scratching my head….

Here's one that's a bit hard to describe in text I've attached some crude art work. And it takes practice before you use it in 'real life'.. It allows using a shorter line than doubling from the boat's cleat to the dock cleat and back again. Less to get tangled up. Less to pull in and drop in the water.

This description is for an after spring from the bow used to pivot the stern out and the bow into the dock. Think it through a bit and you'll see how to use it for a forward spring from the stern used to pivot the bow out.

1. The eye goes on the dock, the bitter end on the boat. Contrary to many recreational boater's preference.
2. The eye goes over the cleat horn pointing towards the bow.
3. The standing part passes under the cleat horn pointing towards the boat's stern.
4. The bitter end is made fast to the appropriate forward cleat on the boat.
5. Once the stern is far enough out call out to your line handler to be ready.
6. As you put the boat in neutral they slack the line a bit
7. As you begin to back away the standing part will fall to the dock clear of the cleat horn it is under.
8. A bit more backing and the line handler can give the line a flip and twist and the eye comes off the cleat. That's the part that takes practice and can be done while secured to the dock with no tension on anything.

 

[ProMaritime]

Depends. Two engines or one.

 

[AlanT]

Just don't take out your pulpit, caprail and railings.

I had this exact situation 3 days ago at IMC Marina, Fishermen's Bay, Lopez Island, San Juan Islands, WA.

Here is what I posted to my blog (written for non-mariners so be kind!):

We found ourselves in a difficult situation with potential damage to the boat or worse and we had to make a decision, do we stay or do we go?
We were tied up at IMC which is a marina in Fisherman’s Harbor, Lopez Island, San Juan Islands, WA. We had planned to spend 3 nights there. Fisherman’s Harbor has a narrow, shallow, winding entrance channel which is not dredged and which is only recommended to tackle on a rising tide.
It is the full moon. That makes for extremely high and extremely low tides. In fact the low tides are 3’ below the chart’s minimum rated depths, and the channel is shallow and difficult at all stages of tide.

When we arrived in Fisherman’s Bay we made sure to come in on a rising tide. It was slightly stressful but only 3/10. We tied up safely and had two days of exploring the island.

Checking the tides for our departure, the ideal departure time was 03:00 a.m. and it got worse every hour past that. We revisited our plans and found a departure window when we could leave, early, at 15:00 hours a day early. If we did not take this opportunity we would be stuck for several days before a daytime favorable tide occurred, so. We made our apologies to the Marina, who are awesome, and they kindly refunded our last night’s stay. We prepped the boat, but anxiously watched the current in the marina.

We are pressed against the dock by a 5 knot current. None of our docklines are under any tension, we are simply pinned by the tide. The tide is our friend in terms of getting out through the shallow narrow twisting channel, because if we do run aground, the rising tide will help us get off. But right now it is our enemy and it gives us no easy option to get off the dock.

After consulting with the harbormaster and crew, I devised a plan. We were unable to move the bow off the dock using the bow thruster, the press of current was too strong. We couldn't hike the stern out using a spring line and back out because the flared bow of our boat was firmly pressed against a creosoted piling, protected only by a flat fender board. But if we could use bow and stern thrusters together we could relieve the pressure on the dock and piling and, hopefully, get us a few inches off the dock against the wind. Then in reverse we could, again hopefully, reverse off the dock without hitting the signage structure at the end of the dock or the boat tied up beyond it. That would give us 50’ to back the boat, turn it and head into the channel without running aground. We are 72’ so it was like backing a car into a parking slot while the whole tarmac is moving 5kts towards you.
Well we made it. We missed the structure at the end of the dock. Joan was right there, and says we missed it by an inch. I didn’t see it but I heard the fear in her voice over the headsets so I believe it.

We got the boat stopped in the “parking lot” without running aground. Hit the afterburners and headed forwards out into the channel looking for a quiet anchorage and an extra shot of rum.
~A

 

[psneeld]

There are also ways to release from a cleat, piling, bull rail besides a turn around them and bitter end back to the boat...etc...etc... with slip hitches, loop & fid........

 

[dhays]

There are also ways to release from a cleat, piling, bull rail besides a turn around them and bitter end back to the boat...etc...etc... with slip hitches, loop & fid........

I have used slip hitches through the center opening of a cleat with good success. Not tried it on a bull rail, but I’ll have to consider that.

 

[psneeld]

After trying the hitches, maybe practice with a loop over and then under the bullrail with a fid (with retrieving line) going through both parts of the loop preventing it from pulling free.


Once away, create a little slack in the loop and pull the retrieving line and fid free which frees up the loop around the bullrail.

 

[jhance]

If you are approaching a dock and you know you will need to be departing against the wind, do you all dock on the side of your boat where prop walk will assist you getting off the dock? For example, I normally dock on starboard side so prop walk helps me in, but if I can let the wind push me into the dock on my port side, prop walk may help me more getting out. Just curious how active of a decision this is for many of you in this scenario?

 

[psneeld]

Prop walk isn't going to help against more than 15 knots of wind or so..... but it helps a lot in normal cruising weather. I will dock so that prop walk helps me out as I can usually kick the stern in on arriving.

 

[dhays]

Today coming back to the home dock we had about 15 knots from the North along with a swirl of current, both of which were pushing me away from the dock. I’m going to have to talk to the marina manager again about installing another cleat I could use to snag with a spring line coming in.

If I could snag a cleat on the dock with a spring, it would be make it a lot easier. Here is a shot of my slip. The empty one in the middle with the arrows for wind and current today. The slip looks easy, but the fairway is only about 40’ wide and my boat is 45’ LOA.

 

[Benthic2]

I don't think there has been any mention of where a boat's center of wind resistance is. If you are broadside to the wind, does your bow catch more wind, or your stern? Whichever end it is, when you are being blown onto the dock, you should probably exit by getting your other end off the dock first.

 

[dhays]

I don't think there has been any mention of where a boat's center of wind resistance is. If you are broadside to the wind, does your bow catch more wind, or your stern? Whichever end it is, when you are being blown onto the dock, you should probably exit by getting your other end off the dock first.

Good point. After so many years in sailboats, where the bow was the first to fall off in a cross wind, I still find it disconcerting that my boat seems to be perfectly happy to drift downwind completed perpendicular to the wind.

 

[jhance]

Today coming back to the home dock we had about 15 knots from the North along with a swirl of current, both of which were pushing me away from the dock. I’m going to have to talk to the marina manager again about installing another cleat I could use to snag with a spring line coming in.

If I could snag a cleat on the dock with a spring, it would be make it a lot easier. Here is a shot of my slip. The empty one in the middle with the arrows for wind and current today. The slip looks easy, but the fairway is only about 40’ wide and my boat is 45’ LOA.
View attachment 119617

Can you explain how you would use the spring line, in detail, to help you to the dock? I tried this in my boat, with a spring going from amidships on my boat aft to a dock cleat near my stern, drifting slowly forward and with rudder turned away from the dock in the thought that would bring the stern in, and my nose just wants to take a nose dive into the dock. Not sure if a Camano amidships cleat may be too far forward for this maneuver but not by appearance as the cleat sits right in the middle. Maybe my bow just doesn't have near enough resistance in the water compared to the stern with all the running gear and keel.

 

[rslifkin]

Can you explain how you would use the spring line, in detail, to help you to the dock? I tried this in my boat, with a spring going from amidships on my boat aft to a dock cleat near my stern, drifting slowly forward and with rudder turned away from the dock in the thought that would bring the stern in, and my nose just wants to take a nose dive into the dock. Not sure if a Camano amidships cleat may be too far forward for this maneuver but not by appearance as the cleat sits right in the middle. Maybe my bow just doesn't have near enough resistance in the water compared to the stern with all the running gear and keel.

If the bow is taking a nose dive, then the spring cleat is likely too far forward. I have this problem on my boat, but I can balance it with steering generally. You may need to gently take up slack on the line, then as it comes tight, just put the boat in forward idle with appropriate rudder input. Without the boat in gear, you probably don't have enough effect from the rudder to keep the stern in.

 

[jhance]

If the bow is taking a nose dive, then the spring cleat is likely too far forward. I have this problem on my boat, but I can balance it with steering generally. You may need to gently take up slack on the line, then as it comes tight, just put the boat in forward idle with appropriate rudder input. Without the boat in gear, you probably don't have enough effect from the rudder to keep the stern in.

This could have been my problem as I will say I was not in gear at the moment the spring line got tight. At the moment, I was already going forward a little faster than I wanted, so I didn't want to go more forward. I probably should have reversed to stopped completely right before the line got tight. Regardless, I was really surprised that even at a slow forward motion how fast the bow went in. This alone makes me hesitant to try the maneuver again. Have you tried this same maneuver off the stern cleat? Seems like that would bring the stern in but the bow outward (possibly corrected with the helm turned toward the dock)?

 

[rslifkin]

This could have been my problem as I will say I was not in gear at the moment the spring line got tight. At the moment, I was already going forward a little faster than I wanted, so I didn't want to go more forward. I probably should have reversed to stopped completely right before the line got tight. Regardless, I was really surprised that even at a slow forward motion how fast the bow went in. This alone makes me hesitant to try the maneuver again. Have you tried this same maneuver off the stern cleat? Seems like that would bring the stern in but the bow outward (possibly corrected with the helm turned toward the dock)?

I haven't tried it off a stern cleat. Generally, I just have the boat moving slowly when the line is cleated, then put an engine in gear right as the line starts to come tight. That way there's no big jerk, but as it comes tight I gain rudder authority to balance the boat against the line (and it can idle in gear to hold the boat to the dock while other lines are set).

 

[psneeld]

There are many ways to use springs.

The big question is how close and what part of your boat can you easily get to the dock.

I have lots of old timers tell me all about the midship line/spring...only one you'll ever need.

I just stay silent after 14 years of using all kinds of springs operating an assitance towboat solo with the tow having a mind of its own still in tow. Often in weather way worse than what the old timers were usually out in.

There are just so many combinations of driver, boat, dock, conditions that saying what works best without knowing the boat and being right there.....most suggestions are just that....suggestions to start with but may have to be modified to become your answer.

 

[dhays]

Can you explain how you would use the spring line, in detail, to help you to the dock? I tried this in my boat, with a spring going from amidships on my boat aft to a dock cleat near my stern, drifting slowly forward and with rudder turned away from the dock in the thought that would bring the stern in, and my nose just wants to take a nose dive into the dock. Not sure if a Camano amidships cleat may be too far forward for this maneuver but not by appearance as the cleat sits right in the middle. Maybe my bow just doesn't have near enough resistance in the water compared to the stern with all the running gear and keel.

As others have explained you need to have the mid ship cleat be far enough aft to make it work. I have two midship cleats (yeah, if there are two neither one is truly “amidships” but…). The forward one is too far forward to work. The after one works great for this purpose, but is not readily accessible from inside the boat. When I anticipate the need, I place it before leaving the dock.

When coming in to the dock, you only have to get close enough to toss a loop over a cleat on the dock that will be positioned near your stern when you come you rest. Going slowly with the helm turned away from the dock and the engine put in and out of gear, the boat will snug up to the dock. If your stern is closer than the bow, put the tranny in neutral. If the bow is starting to come in, then put in forward again.

Of course I created a special line to use for this purpose. 5/8” 3 strand with a very large spliced loop on one end treaded through a length of 1/2” PvP pipe about 2.5’ long. This gives you something to hold that opens up the loop making it easier to lay over a dock cleat. It works great, when the situation is just right for it.

 

[Fish53]

I don't get the mystery surrounding springlines, it's physics not magic, think fulcrum. It's a very simple concept just visualize the point you want to rotate around and create it with dock lines. Most pleasure boats I've looked at have horrible cleat placement so that may be something to deal with after you learn some more. A midship cleat isn't going to do much to get you off the dock against wind or current as it won't allow the bow or stern to get very far from the dock. A midship spring is for bringing the boat to the dock from an angle of 45 degrees or less. To get the bow or stern a substantial distance from the dock you need to locate a fulcrum close to the bow or stern. My preference is usually to back into a forward leading sternline made fast as close to the stern as possible. You may have one of the dreaded swim platforms so you'll need a fairly large fender, I use a large poly ball. If the dock is well fendered you can lead a spring from as close to the bow as possible and leading aft I have my chocks well forward for this purpose. By putting the boat in forward and nudging the bow into the dock or a fender the stern will come out quite easily with the rudder turned toward the dock, but you have to back away from the dock when you let go so remember to reverse your rudder. Any spring is much easier to retrieve when leaving if it's doubled by making one end fast to the boat cleat, leading the standing part around the bit, piling or cleat on the dock and then come back to the boat cleat and make fast again. When you let go you just take off the top end on your cleat and haul the rest aboard. All this stuff works in reverse when coming to a dock at a fairly steep angle and it's easier to snag a dock cleat with a large bight of doubled line than an eye, just remember to make one end fast on the boat first. Many of these techniques are shown in common publications such as Chapman's or easily found online. You could also find some oldtimer like me who'll be glad to show you for a beer and cheesburger. I'm also happy to answer questions as I know this sounds complicated in the written word but in practice it's quite simple, it's one of those things that takes less time to do than to explain.

 

[rwidman]

A 24-volt thruster with a fender at the stern quarter could help.

It's a 12 volt boat so a 24 volt thruster is not going to work well.

 

[rwidman]

There are as many ways to get off a dock as there are times when you need to get off a dock. Sometimes you can use any current to your advantage.

I'm not going to try to describe them all but I believe Chapman Piloting (the book) covers it pretty well.

 

[Fish53]

It's a 12 volt boat so a 24 volt thruster is not going to work well.

Save your money for beer, just learn to use spring lines.

 

[Fish53]

There are as many ways to get off a dock as there are times when you need to get off a dock. Sometimes you can use any current to your advantage.

I'm not going to try to describe them all but I believe Chapman Piloting (the book) covers it pretty well.

That's not exactly true, there are nuances to each event but the techniques and physics are pretty standard, hence your reference to Chapman's.

 

[psneeld]

There are solenoids that allow 12V batteries (systems) to produce 24 volts for a variety of reasons.

 

[jhance]

I don't understand the references to turning your rudder for steerage in reverse immediately after you are at a dead stop and just start going astern. At least in my boat, the rudder has really no affect on steerage in reverse unless I am going pretty fast. Even in Chapman (64th edition), he says to turn the rudder toward where you want to go in reverse. His example is a single screw, right hand prop backing into a slip for a port side tie: "shift into reverse to stop the boat, then put the helm over hard to port to start the turn into the slip; shift into forward as you enter, put the helm over to starboard and open the throttle for a short burse of power to kick the stern to port."

Am I missing something? Why would you put the helm to port as you just start reversing, only to then have to very quickly thereafter put it hard to starboard to kick in the stern? Plus prop walk is helping in the stern. Why not just leave the helm to starboard the entire time? You aren't going fast enough to have the rudder be effective in reverse... ?

 

[rslifkin]

I don't understand the references to turning your rudder for steerage in reverse immediately after you are at a dead stop and just start going astern. At least in my boat, the rudder has really no affect on steerage in reverse unless I am going pretty fast. Even in Chapman (64th edition), he says to turn the rudder toward where you want to go in reverse. His example is a single screw, right hand prop backing into a slip for a port side tie: "shift into reverse to stop the boat, then put the helm over hard to port to start the turn into the slip; shift into forward as you enter, put the helm over to starboard and open the throttle for a short burse of power to kick the stern to port."

Am I missing something? Why would you put the helm to port as you just start reversing, only to then have to very quickly thereafter put it hard to starboard to kick in the stern? Plus prop walk is helping in the stern. Why not just leave the helm to starboard the entire time? You aren't going fast enough to have the rudder be effective in reverse... ?

It depends on the boat and how big your rudder is. On something with a large rudder like a sailboat, it doesn't take much speed to have some steerage in reverse. On other boats, you'll pretty much never have any.

 

[Fish53]

I don't understand the references to turning your rudder for steerage in reverse immediately after you are at a dead stop and just start going astern. At least in my boat, the rudder has really no affect on steerage in reverse unless I am going pretty fast. Even in Chapman (64th edition), he says to turn the rudder toward where you want to go in reverse. His example is a single screw, right hand prop backing into a slip for a port side tie: "shift into reverse to stop the boat, then put the helm over hard to port to start the turn into the slip; shift into forward as you enter, put the helm over to starboard and open the throttle for a short burse of power to kick the stern to port."

Am I missing something? Why would you put the helm to port as you just start reversing, only to then have to very quickly thereafter put it hard to starboard to kick in the stern? Plus prop walk is helping in the stern. Why not just leave the helm to starboard the entire time? You aren't going fast enough to have the rudder be effective in reverse... ?

I am referencing a single screw vessel there but twins are less but similar. When you let the line go the bow is now free to move and if the rudder is left as right rudder when the starboard side is against the dock the tendency will be for the bow to swing to port. Reversing the rudder will assist in backing straight away from the dock. With twins it may be best to simply center the rudders and control with throttles but if you have twins there isn't really a necessity for springlines, just go ahead on the outboard engine and astern on the inboard one and control by throttle settings as you pivot against the dock briefly.