Global Data Protection restrictions (GDPR)

[Robin]

Well I'm just a stoopid old git that wants to window shop online like I used to in high streets (remember them?) I have been a good customer of WM in the past having spent some $20,000 plus just on electronics when upgrading one boat in the USA. I have also spent many a quid from outside the USA with deliveries to me in the UK. I notice I can still open links to WM U Tube videos saved in my favourites, but cannot access their website otherwise, even to access my WM advantage account. Not the end of the world but another example of what my lovely lady calls 'new kids on the block that don't give a damn' syndrome.

 

[Delfin]

Easy to convert that information so it's not accessible beyond processing that order. Not the route we would choose, but some have. It all then just shows up under customer "Guest". Retrievable by order number but not by name beyond a limited time.

It doesn't work that way. You're either a covered entity under the Act, or you're not. If you have the ability to know the identity of a person, you're a covered entity even if you never store the personal information, and only use it ephemerally to direct shipping. The UK sub of the company I sold got safe harbor under US law because we could demonstrate that it was impossible for us ever to know personal identity, since all identifiers were encrypted and we were never in possession of the private key required for decryption.

If it was as simple for WM to just process all EU orders as guests and then fire and forget any personal data they'd be shipping to the EU. It isn't, so they don't.

 

[Juggerknot]

Just use a vpn and select a U.S. server, you will get access.

 

[Delfin]

Just use a vpn and select a U.S. server, you will get access.

But you won't be able to order, unless you have it shipped to a U.S. address.

 

[Juggerknot]

Plenty of freight forwarders or fellow cruisers to help move it along. I have been getting along fine for over a decade outside the U.S., where there's a will, there's a way.

 

[rolomart3]

Perhaps, a positive response to West Marine on their price-matching initiative is in order. We can help it become a better company. The new owners appear to be doing their part. Let us do ours.


This comment comes from someone not affiliated or with a financial interest in West Marine, its owners, subsidiaries nor supplier.


As to the EC regulation, may not be that bad at all. We do not have a monopoly on wisdom and it is surely better to learn from the actions prompted by the misfortunes of others than having to suffer them in our own skin. Maybe we can benefit from such regulation. However, until they are required here in USA, just don't make me pay higher prices in West Marine to finance its implementation.


Thank you very much,

 

[markpierce]

My just literal "just down the street" WM store from me has closed.

 

[Boat]

The guy at West Marine said he spends a lot of time with customers to find what they want. Then they don't buy. They walk out and order online to save a few bucks, hence pricematching. The store has bills to pay at the end of the month and if the bills don't get paid, no mo' sto'.

It's not just the store it's the vertical markets, interrelated ownership, stores, suppliers, shippers, banks, insurance, taxes, utilities, roads, etc, etc. It's all great fun until …

One day the Styrofoam, cockroaches, and Walmart will look around and wonder what happened.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. R3 brings up an excellent point. Support WM by conducting your business with them. I was chatting with a WM associate on my last visit and mentioned it was quite refreshing that WM was matching prices. He agreed but said that sales have NOT increased since the introduction of price matching. He mentioned the fact that a physical store had more expenses than a web merchant and that WM corporate was reviewing the price matching exercise.

That being said he had no response when I asked him how WM justified 100% to 200% mark-up on the items I was buying.

 

[denverd0n]

That being said he had no response when I asked him how WM justified 100% to 200% mark-up on the items I was buying.

Most people don't realize it, but that is a pretty typical retail markup. There are, of course, some dramatic exceptions -- markups are razor thin for most grocery-store products. But go to the auto parts store, most any clothing store, a jeweler, a hardware store, a sporting goods store, any of that sort of thing, and the markups will usually at least be very near to 100%, and often more.

 

[BandB]

Most people don't realize it, but that is a pretty typical retail markup. There are, of course, some dramatic exceptions -- markups are razor thin for most grocery-store products. But go to the auto parts store, most any clothing store, a jeweler, a hardware store, a sporting goods store, any of that sort of thing, and the markups will usually at least be very near to 100%, and often more.

The retail term often used is Keystone. That means 100% markup or 50% gross margin. In some businesses one goes for Keystone Plus. With sales that then reduce margin, one needs to start off at those levels. With private label goods, one hopes to have greater margins, in the 60-70% area. Also, in very fashionable goods with high closeouts, such as women's apparel one needs higher initial margins.

Most retailers then end up with 30-40% gross margins. A few examples. Apparel average is 53%. Auto and truck parts is 25%. Home Improvement 35%. Grocery 21%. Pharmacy 29%. Department and Discount stores 29%. Furniture 45%.

Now to achieve numbers like the 45% furniture stores hit, they start with markups well above 100%, gross margins well above 50%. 60-65% gross margin is typical discounted to 45%. Jewelry stores start with 45-60% gross margins but end up around 35%.

The problem for retailers is that gross margin isn't achieved in selling, but it's gained in purchasing. Many retailers also increase gross margin through private labels. GAP would be a great example. They end up around 38-40% by starting with much greater margins on most items but being brought down by basic jeans which achieve about a 33% gross margin.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
As to the 100%+ markup. Wasn't aware of the fact. It would seem to me that it would be better for a business to sell 10 items at a $10 profit per item than 1 item at a $100 profit per item. MUCH better for the customer and would possibly guarantee repeat business and establishment of a loyal consumer base. No, I'm NOT an economist nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn last night.


One of the items I purchased @ WM was an engine zinc. WM price=$6.50. On line price=$2.50. Through poor planning I needed it quickly and they DID sell it to me for $2.50 but IF they hadn't price matched and I hadn't needed it ASAP, I would not ever be going back, simply planning better.

 

[BandB]

Greetings,
As to the 100%+ markup. Wasn't aware of the fact. It would seem to me that it would be better for a business to sell 10 items at a $10 profit per item than 1 item at a $100 profit per item. r.

Here's the problem. We use the term $10 profit per item, but it's not profit. It's gross margin from which all other expenses much come. A typical retailer who sells an item they buy for $100 for $180 will end up making $10-15 on that item. The $100 turns into $10. It is impossible to survive in retail at anything less than 35% gross margin or so.

Now, can Amazon sell for less? Yes. Can they be profitable for less? No. They are not making money when they're selling items for 10% or 20% gross margins. Their profits are not coming from their retailing. They're making money on the sales of others. They're making money on their cloud. They're making money on other products.

The Amazon margins are not sustainable and all they do is give them volume, not profits.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. BB. Let's keep this REAL simple. Forget about percentages and margins. I'm talking pure $$ in an owner's or corporation's pocket.


That zinc (anode) for example. From the time someone hires a prospector who finds the deposit of sphalerite (most common zinc ore) to the WM sales bin everyone involved must make a "profit" to stay in business.


-The prospector finds the ore. He/she puts $$ in their pocket.
-The mining company digs and ships the ore. Costs right down to the grease "Jimbo" uses to lubricate the crane used to load the ore onto the hopper car are included. The mining company owner puts $$ in their pocket.
-The refinery smelts the ore and casts it into ingots. Costs down to the penny per ingot are included. The refinery owner puts $$ in their pocket.
-The manufacturer of the anode casts the zinc ingots into itty bitty pieces and ships to a distributor. Every gallon of fuel used in shipping is included it those costs. That owner puts $$ in their pocket.
-WM puts the anode on the shelf with a price. Even the cost of the toilet paper in the employee bathroom is included. THAT owner puts $$ in their pocket.


MY point is: I do NOT mind a business making a profit. That's the whole point of running a business BUT c'mon....260% extra for a item being sold elsewhere, at a profit for $2.50 isn't enough? If WM is only making 35% by charging an extra 260%, something's wrong somewhere.

 

[denverd0n]

Not clear where you are getting the 260% number from. It's pretty simple, though. It costs a lot to operate a retail store. So WM buys an item for $100. They put it on their shelf for $200. They do NOT make $100 profit on it. In the end they get $10 or $15 real profit out of that sale. The rest goes to rent, insurance, employee salaries, utility bills, and on, and on, and on.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. d. I see what you're saying but I included all costs in my scenario in post #44.

260%? Maybe my sums are wrong but $2.50 X .26= $6.50.

 

[BandB]

Greetings,
Mr. d. I see what you're saying but I included all costs in my scenario in post #44.

260%? Maybe my sums are wrong but $2.50 X .26= $6.50.

$2.50 x .26 = $6.50? Oh, modern math.

Actually $6.50 is 260% of $2.50. However, that's not an extra 260%, just an extra 160%. $4.00 extra and $4.00 is 160% of $2.50.

Just addressing the math.

As to what the situation is, I am guessing the $2.50 is a zinc only place perhaps. I know that no one makes money on a simple $2.50 total sale. Do they charge to ship it? Are they the importer? This may well be an item WM is paying far more for than the online site. It happens on individual items, especially small items.

Dollar stores are an interesting phenomenon. Dollar Tree and Dollar General sell many items for less than other stores can even buy those items. They import directly in huge quantities, actually paying less than the distributor who sells to others.

Let's go back in time a bit to the farmer who had the roadside stand right beside his farm. Yes, he sold apples for less than the grocery. In fact, he sold for what the grocer paid for them.

The question really shouldn't be about a single product but the overall pricing and the overall markups of West Marine haven't been unreasonable. Now, much of gross margins is determined not by how you sell, but how you buy. I do feel WM has some issues on the sourcing side.

One of the most interesting anomalies in the market is Costco. Many think of them and Sams as similar and competing but very little similarity as Costco carries only a small percentage of the number of items Sam's carries and there's are special buy, negotiated contracts vs. Sam's is largely normal items from regular product lines. Costco's profit percentage is also minuscule. Their gross margin on store sales is 11%. Their profit margin on store sales pre-tax is less than 1%. However, membership fees are 2.3%. Much like Amazon making more on prime memberships than on sales. 71% of Costco's profits come from memberships and that is with being the largest seller of many product categories in the country. Now, if you want some Prime Ribeyes, there is no way your local butcher can match Costco's prices, no way your local wine shop can match them, no way your local battery store can. None of these have $3 billion in membership fees to fall back on.

I can't explain the $6.50 vs $2.50 zinc as I don't have the details, but I can say that West Marine's margins as a whole are not out of line with what they need to survive. They're consistent with Auto Parts stores that do far more volume. Ultimately too, we all have to decide what we'll pay for convenience and service. Just if we refuse to pay for it, the time may come we no longer have the option.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. BB. Thanks. Obviously my arithmetic skills have declined since my position as head auditor with the IRS...Or maybe not.
Just a prime example of I have no idea how retail works but I still feel somewhat screwed...

 

[Boat]

Your shadow cost more than the part.

The computer on Wall Streeet is probably telling them that a $6.50 ticket is costing them money. Cost of lumens to light the way, see the part, and find the register exceeded the sale.


I need a cheaper shadow too if you find a deal on them.

 

[BandB]

Greetings,
Mr. BB. Thanks. Obviously my arithmetic skills have declined since my position as head auditor with the IRS...Or maybe not.
Just a prime example of I have no idea how retail works but I still feel somewhat screwed...

I think your feeling is common. Most people have no idea the costs of getting product from manufacturing or farming to the consumer. I'm sure as an IRS auditor you often saw bottom lines that just looked suspicious as to how a business with so much revenue could make so little. I'm sure sometimes you also saw the reasons and while legal deductions sure seemed like stupid ways to spend money.

Then there are the companies whose primary motivation isn't profit. The "Frank Borman" school of business only after being largest and the Venture Capitalist only after maximizing the value of the stock.

All businesses are different and I'd have to dig in and have information I don't have to really understand West Marine. They've sure struggled trying to understand it and going in all different directions. I have a hard time grasping Costco making their money on memberships like all the failed membership direct sales outfits tried. Then at the other extreme you have dollar stores. I was shocked that a relatively small store selling nothing for over $1 could sell $1.5 million a year. That is over 4000 items a day. If WM could do that many items a day in each store they've been making billions.

 

[twistedtree]

I get that a retail store cost more than a warehouse.

But despite all the retail benchmarks, Defender, Fisheries, Hamilton, Jamestown, Marine Exchange, Semar all operate retail stores and offer product at market prices, all less than MSRP. And they don’t have WM’s buying power.

So with WM regularly asking for more than MSRP, they are either raping their customers, or a completely broken company, neither of which is very flattering

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. tt. That's the point I was attempting to make...albeit poorly. Thanks.

 

[BandB]

So with WM regularly asking for more than MSRP, they are either raping their customers, or a completely broken company, neither of which is very flattering

I wasn't aware they charged more than MSRP. However, my vote goes for completely broken. Stores everywhere, then fewer and bigger. Parts and Accessories, then clothing and unrelated items. Change of ownership. Change pricing on many wholesale customers from Port Supply. They got into many different businesses they didn't know how to run instead of just one they didn't know how to run. I think completely broken sums it up and not sure whether new owners can fix it or not. Price matching is a cute short term gimmick but can't suffice for being price competitive.

I will toss this out too. I know yacht managers who used Port Supply at one discount level and that was changed and have left them almost completely. In some areas, there are not many other local choices, but in South Florida there are plenty. Now there managers will still go to them to pick up small items needed but not for any of the large purchases. They've attempted to consolidate the wholesale and retail and that doesn't work.

I hope they fix things, but only time will tell and it appears those of you who shop with them haven't seen any meaningful change yet.

 

[denverd0n]

I'm sure sometimes you also saw the reasons and while legal deductions sure seemed like stupid ways to spend money.

Getting way off topic, of course, but to me this is the most perfect proof that our tax system is seriously broken. Companies routinely do things that are completely counter-intuitive, and seem amazingly dumb, except that they make sense because of the tax consequences. When spending money in a foolish way makes sense because of the tax laws, that's pretty good proof that the tax laws are STUPID!

 

[BandB]

Getting way off topic, of course, but to me this is the most perfect proof that our tax system is seriously broken. Companies routinely do things that are completely counter-intuitive, and seem amazingly dumb, except that they make sense because of the tax consequences. When spending money in a foolish way makes sense because of the tax laws, that's pretty good proof that the tax laws are STUPID!

No, they still don't make sense. No matter how big the deduction, the company still loses the majority of the stupid moves. Never does spending money foolishly make sense because of tax laws. Just doesn't work that way. Then what is stupid spending is a matter of opinion. Many high flying companies, I can't understand their business approaches. Uber is a great example. They continue to just hemorrhage money and investors continue to pay for them to do so.