Gloss versus Matte Varnish finish

The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.

jrhodes777

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2017
Messages
33
Location
United States
Vessel Name
Wanderlust
Vessel Make
1988 46' Grand Banks Classic
I know this is an aesthetics question but here goes. Refinishing the interior varnish on a 1988 Grand Banks. Looking at the owner's manual the interior varnish was a mixture of 75% semi gloss and 25% gloss varnish. What level of sheen do you recommend for interior teak?
 
Floor or walls?

I just did my floor and used semi gloss as I felt full gloss would be too much and show scuff marks easier.

While I don't have the full gloss finish to compare to I am happy with the result.
 
Last edited:
Greetings,
Mr. jr. Aesthetics indeed. MY personal preference is a matte to semi-gloss finish for interior surfaces IF your interior paneling is wood. Gloss over large surfaces is just a bit too much IMO. Gloss finish on wood trim/accent pieces might be acceptable BUT a gloss finish will show every scratch and scuff AND fingerprints as opined by Mr. m.
 
Interior varnish is all satin on Hobo. I think Epifanes makes a matte but you can buy satin almost anywhere. A matte finish is too flat where a gloss is too shiny for us imho.
 
Re everyone's walls - are they wood or laminate. I was advised by the wood guy at the yard just to use Murphy's on laminate and not a light sand and varnish.

Your thoughts?
 
Re everyone's walls - are they wood or laminate. I was advised by the wood guy at the yard just to use Murphy's on laminate and not a light sand and varnish.

Your thoughts?

I also use Murphy’s oil soap on laminate. Trim wood and my teak and holly floors get gloss. All other solid teak gets satin. Personal preference really.
 
Re everyone's walls - are they wood or laminate. I was advised by the wood guy at the yard just to use Murphy's on laminate and not a light sand and varnish.

Your thoughts?

Our walls are wood. Murphy's Oil Soap has been used on our boat for at least 17 years. It seems to keep the finish looking like new. The boat is 29 years old and the few touch ups have been on fiddles, window sills and doors. The walls don't show wear. The Murphy's is the key. It looks and smell good after a Murphy's wash down.
 
I vote 'Satin' for all interior wood surfaces. I find 'Gloss' too glittery; just taste. I have no painted surfaces but would use 'Semigloss' if trim, and 'Eggshell' if bulkheads. I have no fake wood on our boat; if I did, I'd paint it like I did the 'FauxTeak' on the Morgan 27.
 
Teak is traditionally never varnished. The simple reason is, it contains too much oil and no good finish will attach well. I would use the soapy Murphy oil on floors, and an oil or clear stain in vertical surfaces. Now veneered surfaces would not have the large amount of oil, as it dries easily, so I guess these could be varnished, and to keep with tradition, I would use a mate product.
 
Pedro, not only do I put varnish over teak, I use oil as my first coat. Adheres just fine. I’ve heard the idea that one cannot varnish teak, but either don’t agree with it, or don’t understand it. Lots and lots of teak gets varnished every day.
 
I speak as a woodworker, not as boat owner. In furniture, we never varnish teak. Even glueing teak is quite difficult, and one has to previously use acetone to remove the local oil. I never had a boat that had teak other than in decks, so I humbly admit I am not an authority in the use of teak in boats, and you are probably right in that there are varnishes that can be used in that industry.
 
With a good prep varnish on teak is good. I’ve put lots of oil on my caprails and use McKloskies spar varnnish (high oil varnish).

Inside my boat is almost all teak. Don’t think it’s ever been varnished. I oil it on occasion (my own mix of oil mostly linseed). The only downside is really old oil gets dark and has a dirty look about it. The smell of turp inside is strong. Mine oiled teak in places should be wooded down but I’ve not done it. It looks fair but I’m not that super fussy.
The plus side of oil is it’s easy to re-do and scraping is not needed. It has the nice warm soft look most want.

A passing thought;
Varnish is a mixture of oils mostly linseed, tung and turpentine that I think comes from trees and is also oil. I don’t think I’m far off saying a case could be made saying teak works best w oil finishes. I planed to just oil a piece of plywood on my foredeck but after about 12 coats of oil I decided to varnish. It’s held up good w the heavy oil base. Only one touch up in about 7 years.
 
Last edited:
With a good prep varnish on teak is good. I’ve put lots of oil on my caprails and use McKloskies spar varnnish (high oil varnish).

Inside my boat is almost all teak. Don’t think it’s ever been varnished. I oil it on occasion (my own mix of oil mostly linseed). The only downside is really old oil gets dark and has a dirty look about it. Mine (in places) should be wooded down but I’ve not done it. It looks fair but I’m not that super fussy.
The plus side of oil is it’s easy to re-do and scraping is not needed. It has the nice warm soft look most want.

Teak looks best with varnish, both inside and outside. That old, dark oil finish inside can be rehabbed by scraping off the layers of dirty oil that are making it go dark. Then a couple of coats of satin or gloss varnish will bring up whatever level of shine you desire and with only wiping, the colour will stay lighter and look clean.
Outside...well it is called "brightwork" isn't it? Decks may be left to go grey, except for the "king plank" and perimeter boards, which should both be gloss varnish for a traditional look.
 
Baby oil on bare grain interior vertically positioned teak and mahogany really looks good, easy to apply and has pleasant odor.
 
Last edited:
"What level of sheen do you recommend for interior teak?"

Non reflective , polished with rottenstone.

In rough conditions a shiny paint/varnish reflecting light in many directions can help create a

VOMITORIUM.
 
I like satin finish on interior surfaces and gloss on exterior. This is mahogany with a satin finish. I’ve heard that using a coat of gloss under the coat of satin will make your satin finish last longer . I’ve never tried it .
 

Attachments

  • 1AA86E3A-B243-4F64-B7A3-13670C9511D6.jpg
    1AA86E3A-B243-4F64-B7A3-13670C9511D6.jpg
    103.5 KB · Views: 60
I like satin finish on interior surfaces and gloss on exterior. This is mahogany with a satin finish. I’ve heard that using a coat of gloss under the coat of satin will make your satin finish last longer . I’ve never tried it .

The gloss shows up all imperfections much more than satin. Then you fix them, then put a final coat of satin, to achieve the desired level of gloss. I have tried it. It works for those areas where SWMBO wants satin. elsewhere I leave a gloss as the final finish.
 
Teak is traditionally never varnished. The simple reason is, it contains too much oil and no good finish will attach well....
I`ve successfully varnished plenty of teak,but Pedro has a point. I once painted the teak on a new cast iron and teak wood garden seat, primer, undercoat, gloss oil paint, it lifted off, no adhesion.
 
With a good prep varnish on teak is good. I’ve put lots of oil on my caprails and use McKloskies spar varnnish (high oil varnish).

Inside my boat is almost all teak. Don’t think it’s ever been varnished. I oil it on occasion (my own mix of oil mostly linseed). The only downside is really old oil gets dark and has a dirty look about it. The smell of turp inside is strong. Mine oiled teak in places should be wooded down but I’ve not done it. It looks fair but I’m not that super fussy.
The plus side of oil is it’s easy to re-do and scraping is not needed. It has the nice warm soft look most want.

A passing thought;
Varnish is a mixture of oils mostly linseed, tung and turpentine that I think comes from trees and is also oil. I don’t think I’m far off saying a case could be made saying teak works best w oil finishes. I planed to just oil a piece of plywood on my foredeck but after about 12 coats of oil I decided to varnish. It’s held up good w the heavy oil base. Only one touch up in about 7 years.



Simplified, Varnish is a mixture of drying oils, resin and solvent. The solvent flashes to let the drying oils, usually tung or linseed to crosslink and polymerize into a lasting finish. The resin crosslinks with the oils and leaves behind a solid. Leave out the resin and you have essentially what is often sold as teak oil. You will still have a curing finish as the carriers flash off, but much less solids being left behind sitting bonded on top of the wood. Basically it soaks in and then cross links. Do that with a non drying oil and it will soak in and look pretty but won’t polymerize.

Personally I prefer the matte oil finish inside, but it does not wear in high traffic, dirty hands areas. Those areas can benefit from a matte varnish with more solids sitting on top and leveling.

Interesting, if you simply repeatedly apply a drying oil, eventually you get a surface that builds and has many of the same characteristics as a traditional varnish. Better to think of teak oils on one end of a spectrum and a varnish on the other than to think as entirely different products. Reality is that many products are somewhere in the middle of the spectrum than one or the other. Lots of the same ingredients, just in different proportions.

Gets even more complicated when you look at poly varnishes where the polymerization is happening with mechanisms other than just drying oils. Someone mentioned epiphanies woodfinish matte, or I use gloss externally. It’s basically a traditional varnish, but also has non drying oil mechanics in addition, so you get benefits like multiple days between coats without sanding. Pretty much indistinguishable from their pure tung oil products visually and flows very predictably as well.

Anyway, it’s good to have some idea of the mechanisms, often to dismiss the wives tales or allegiances to just one mechanic. There are lots of avenues that work together in this oil/varnish/poly cauldron.

I only know enough to be dangerous.
 
Back
Top Bottom