got a notice from canada coast guard today.

[sjisailor]

Agreed -- although my assumption has been that the regs are a response to the harassment of whales by only a small number of folks? (Gathering too close to view them, etc.)

 

[Mac2]

Agreed -- although my assumption has been that the regs are a response to the harassment of whales by only a small number of folks? (Gathering too close to view them, etc.)

The distance regs make total sense to me and would seem to make the zones irrelevant (except for the no fishing aspect).

 

[hollywood8118]

I did personally hit a sleeping whale off the coast of mexico a bunch of years ago while ghosting along under sail in the middle of the night.. scared the crap out of me. I will personally attest that whale breath smells atrocious. The whale seemed unfazed when I hit it and also shone a big spot light on it. It rolled over and exhaled and dipped low in the water and kept snoozing.
We recreational boaters are again the " low hanging fruit" for legislators that get crap from environmental groups to do something to save the orca.
Hollywood

 

[Mac2]

Oh oh! Now sailboats are on the radar for a ban!

 

[KnotYet]

Excellent points! Has anyone ever heard of a recreational boat striking a Orca? If so, was it at trawler speeds? Doubt it. I know of Orcas that put themselves in dangerous prop strike situations, but would be curious if a cruising boat has run over an Orca, or even got close.

Researchers have documented many instances of scarring on the topsides
and dorsal fins of orcas due to boat strikes. Recreational or not, strikes are
strikes. These regulations are not coming from 'environmental groups',
and are valid regardless of who favors them. Interestingly, the recent
increase in orcas doing damage to boats underway is thought by
scientists studying the situation to be a response to boats striking orcas.
That itself would be a good reason for the exclusion areas.

 

[Mac2]

Researchers have documented many instances of scarring on the topsides
and dorsal fins of orcas due to boat strikes. Recreational or not, strikes are
strikes. These regulations are not coming from 'environmental groups',
and are valid regardless of who favors them. Interestingly, the recent
increase in orcas doing damage to boats underway is thought to be a
response to boat vs. orca strikes by scientists studying the situation.
That itself would be a good reason for the exclusion areas.

I guess I'm to logical. I don't think it's okay to hit an Orca when they venture out of the exclusion area.

 

[SteveK]

Researchers have documented many instances of scarring on the topsides
and dorsal fins of orcas due to boat strikes. Recreational or not, strikes are
strikes. These regulations are not coming from 'environmental groups',
and are valid regardless of who favors them. Interestingly, the recent
increase in orcas doing damage to boats underway is thought by scientists
studying the situation to be a response to boat vs. orca strikes.
That itself would be a good reason for the exclusion areas.

The no go zone 1/2 mile offshore is not an area I expect to see a freighter. Both these southern gulf island no go zones are to ban fishing without saying that is what they are doing. Both these areas are well known for salmon.
Whale strikes are a reality, and it would be nice to hear how often a trawler or go fast pleasure craft hits are estimated when the hammer falls on pleasure boat passing through.

 

[KnotYet]

The no go zone 1/2 mile offshore is not an area I expect to see a freighter. Both these southern gulf island no go zones are to ban fishing without saying that is what they are doing. Both these areas are well known for salmon.
Whale strikes are a reality, and it would be nice to hear how often a trawler or go fast pleasure craft hits are estimated when the hammer falls on pleasure boat passing through.

Good to see the conspiracy mill is still operating.

'Pleasure' boats come in all sizes as do commercial craft and travel at any speed.
It is a distinction lacking a meaningful difference.

 

[Benthic2]

But do they?


How many of us HAVE ACTUALLY hit an Orca or even come CLOSE to hitting one?
I understand large commercial ships transitioning an area do hit whales from time to time but how many transition that area that close to shore ?


Often times Environmental groups get legislation enacted that are nothing more than "feel good" legislation and have no real science or net result other than blocking certain groups or individuals from use of an area or even their own personal property.
I have been boating in Puget Sound for almost 30 years and have never had interaction with Orca EXCEPT when the Orca were over 1/2 mile off the beam of our boat headed straight for us ( catching us) and played around us to show us a new calf.

What I think worries many is what could be the gradual loss of areas we can transit as groups ask for more and more of these areas as we continue to see a shrinking of the Orca heard and they think more will be better.
As much as I love Salmon, I wonder if the only thing that may make a difference is the complete ban of salmon fishing for a period of time. It is interesting that the local Tribes while touting the connection with the Orca will never suggest this as an option.

HOLLYWOOD

2 points of contention:

1. If you accept that the whale population is in trouble, and saving them is important, why not try it. Is it that inconvenient to alter your course a little if it might help ?

2. Some might worry about "the gradual loss of areas we can transit..." , but EVERYONE should worry about people deciding which laws they want to obey.

...just my 2 cents.

 

[SteveK]

Good to see the conspiracy mill is still operating.

'Pleasure' boats come in all sizes as do commercial craft and travel at any speed.
It is a distinction lacking a meaningful difference.

so much fun rattling the cage of the California Dreamer.

 

[Northern Spy]

so much fun rattling the cage of the California Dreamer.

Canadian federal politics is not his forte.

There is lot more going on here than meets the eye.

Just don't be the first to strike a SRKW, or you will be pilloried by the government, and even worse, the media, to fulfill the narrative that there can be no more shipping, specifically tankers, in BC waters.

Unless of course you are an outbound bulker loaded with coal. That's okay, merely a mistake. Carry on.

 

[soin2la]

Excellent points! Has anyone ever heard of a recreational boat striking a Orca? If so, was it at trawler speeds? Doubt it. I know of Orcas that put themselves in dangerous prop strike situations, but would be curious if a cruising boat has run over an Orca, or even got close.

It’s not about preventing recreational boaters from hitting killer whales. It’s like that neighbour who likes to fire up his chainsaw at 7am every Sunday and disrupts the peaceful existence of your entire family.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

I don't believe the whale population is in danger. If fish stocks are low, then those spices that depend on fish will be low.

When you look at the policies of the government's involvement, it's all boils down to 3 things.
1. Control
2. Power
3. Money

 

[soin2la]

If fish stocks are low, then those spices that depend on fish will be low.

Interesting comment, but both Cayenne and Nutmeg are mammal eating killer whales.

 

[sunchaser]

Unless of course you are an outbound bulker loaded with coal. That's okay, merely a mistake. Carry on.

The BC ferries may well bear some "guilt" too.

 

[rslifkin]

Hitting a whale with a boat like most of us have isn't too good for the boat either. So I have a hard time saying avoiding whales is a bad thing. Ideally, if there are restrictions like this out there, the data behind them should be made available and the areas should be either seasonal or otherwise periodically updated based on data (to make sure areas aren't being needlessly restricted.

 

[SteveK]

The BC ferries may well bear some "guilt" too.

As a frequent user I can compliment the crews for avoiding whales. Usually it is an early change of course, but several times now there were sudden course changes when whales surface that were not seen in distance. Whale watching from a ferry is excellent as you can see them miles away, unless they are swimming submerged for long distance.
BC ferries have avoided active pass when whales are expected, going the longer route around East point.

 

[soin2la]

Ideally, if there are restrictions like this out there, the data behind them should be made available and the areas should be either seasonal or otherwise periodically updated based on data (to make sure areas aren't being needlessly restricted.

There is no shortage of available data on this coast, the problem for most information seekers and observers, is knowing which data to believe. There is a gargantuan gap between the Center for Whale Research and the prolific experts on dedicated Facebook whale sighting sites. Like so many topics from orcas to ovaries, Google can be very misleading.

Here are two sample months, where the endangered southern resident killer whales are shown in the restricted area of this topic.

 

[soin2la]

As a frequent user I can compliment the crews for avoiding whales. Usually it is an early change of course, but several times now there were sudden course changes when whales surface that were not seen in distance. BC ferries have avoided active pass when whales are expected, going the longer route around East point.

I can agree with the first comment. Both BCF and WSF are plugged into the reporting and data collecting system and are instrumental in the real time sightings broadcasts.

The second comment, not so much. Killer whales in Active Pass are most often passing through with the flood and transit very quickly, often doing about 7-10 knots and the large ferries in Active Pass are running at reduced speeds. If whales are expected, speeds can be adjusted pre or post pass to compensate for minimal lost time.

The time and cost involved taking the southern route is not necessary, or reasonable on any kind of speculative basis. Those vessels are more likely to be delayed berthing at Tsawwassen because of whales than they are prevented from using Active Pass.

At this time, the Coastal Celebration is using the southern route because a mechanical issue raises concerns for safety in Active Pass. I am not aware of any BCF vessels taking that route because whales might be headed for the pass.

 

[Northern Spy]

The BC ferries may well bear some "guilt" too.

They have really upped their game. Whales are frequent now on the North end of Texada. BC Ferries bridge crews are definitely proactive on course changes long before an encounter.

Cruise ships on the other hand... They must have a good lobbyist.

 

[soin2la]

They have really upped their game. Whales are frequent now on the North end of Texada. BC Ferries bridge crews are definitely proactive on course changes long before an encounter.

Cruise ships on the other hand... They must have a good lobbyist.

With the big (huge is relative) growth in humpback numbers in your area it is far easier to be proactive, slowing to give the passengers a thrill, rather than reap the benefits of an unfortunate encounter. Lots of dolphin activity in your yard as well.

This past "season" humpbacks were numerous right on up to Blind Channel with a large daily presence in Sutl Channel. Bear tours out of Campbell River get a freebie whale tour on the way back from Bute and Toba.

 

[magna 6882]

I have been on the sound since the 70s and have never seen a whale unless it was on the news. I think once a boat gets tagged it would be wise not to transmit ais data.

 

[soin2la]

I have been on the sound since the 70s and have never seen a whale unless it was on the news.

Whales are seen from WSF on a near daily basis. Two ecotypes of killer whales, humpbacks and gray whales.

BC Ferries avoiding Active Pass was mentioned earlier. Here’s two ferries, a humpback and several killer whales passing through at the same time. The Spirit of Vancouver Island reduced speed to 7 knots. Killer whales regularly transit Active Pass with BCF fully aware of their presence.
https://youtu.be/o42aLL3K1VU

 

[Benthic2]

I don't believe the whale population is in danger. If fish stocks are low, then those spices that depend on fish will be low.

When you look at the policies of the government's involvement, it's all boils down to 3 things.
1. Control
2. Power
3. Money

I would like to think at least some of our politician's motivations are more altruistic than this, but let's assume you are correct. All 3 of those things depend on public support in a democracy. If you alienate your constituents they don't vote for you and you lose power and control. They also don't contribute to your campaign, which diminishes all 3 of your supposed motivators. In other words whether politicians fit my overly ideal image, or your more selfish image, they need public support. In a democracy we can't blame the politicians as we get what we vote for.

Moderators: If I crossed the line, please respond accordingly, however I am hoping you allow a little more lattitude as the very subject of this thread involves the intersection of government and boating.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. B2. "...involves the intersection of government and boating." FULLY agree. IF the mods will allow general comments about governmental involvement in matters and legislation without reference to specific governments/political parties/politicians I think that may go a long way to understanding exactly why some of these restrictions are put in place.
Same caveat: IF I've crossed the line, please remove this post.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
It is not up to LEO's to create laws/restrictions. Their job is to enforce what is put in place, either rightly or wrongly, those laws enacted by governments. Directing criticisms or nasty comments towards said LEO's is misdirected, IMO.

 

[psneeld]

LEO organizations probably should be involved sometimes more than they often seem to be.

What happens when they aren't involved in the law drafting, is you get a law that sometimes is almost unenforceable with todays LEO force, equipment and technology.

 

[Northern Spy]

What LEOs?

Canadian Coast Guard doesn't have a mandate for law enforcement.

Transport Canada is a regulatory and compliance agency with limited enforcement.

https://tc.canada.ca/en/corporate-services/transparency/enforcement-actions-used-transport-canada

The enforcement came by letter.

 

[psneeld]

If for me NS, I wasn't necessarily implying only this situation.

But ultimately the LEOs responsible for enforcing any law should have some input as to just how they can with available resources.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. NS. Thanks for the clarification. I stand corrected.