Happy New Year - marina raised my fees

[ProMaritime]

It is called inflation. Standby for buckets of it for everything you need and buy.

 

[rslifkin]

I know some marinas are hesitant about wood boats, but the age limit is new to me.

When I see quotes of $80 to $157 plf is that for a whole summer? I live in Florida and pay monthly.

The price for mine is for the summer season, not per month. Per month is more common in places where people don't usually have an an off-season in the winter.

 

[ssobol]

The scary part for me is if they buy up everything, and their policy is no boat beyond a certain age, where do I dock my boat?

Next they will be buying up the boat dealerships and brokers, so soon they will have a solution to your problem.

 

[South of Heaven]

$185 per foot in Beantown. (May through October) Some are over $200 per foot.

Certain areas in Cape Cod and the Island's are $250 a foot and above.

 

[Lollygag1]

The marina that is a 5 minute walk from me appears to take a different approach and only has old and crappy boats located there.

 

[Prospective]

The marina that is a 5 minute walk from me appears to take a different approach and only has old and crappy boats located there.

Curious where you're located but understand you won't want to say on an open forum. I suspect I winter store close to you. I am on the bay too. Prices are certainly rising. I do worry about being priced out of the market. I am at my size limit at my current location. If I want to move up in boat, I'll need to move and it could double my slip cost. I wouldn't mind a mooring but those are pretty hard to come by as well...

 

[Lollygag1]

We are at Bay Marina in Warwick furthest one down the cove.

 

[Prospective]

Yup, I winter store at Pleasure Marina. Thought you might be in the cove.

 

[Lollygag1]

All the way at the end.

 

[JHeide]

Same on Long Island

I too received a 10% raise in rates at my local town marina. And honestly it’s due for a raise. But with no notice, no explanation , and no improvements forecast, it is just plain wrong headed customer service. Take it or leave it mentality. Sad.

 

[Leo Reise]

Our fees went up 2% - dockage with our club.
We use "well" pricing not per foot.
40 fo0t LOA $2986 50 LOA $3626 for 6 months = our season.
Includes hydro (30 or 50 amp) & water
Boats must be hauled.

 

[BDofMSP]

Our rates did not increase this year. However they did just hire a new manager, so we'll have to see what kind of changes are coming our way. Haven't met him yet.

Our summer fees are based on the slip length, not the boat length. Winter storage is based on boat length. Averaged out across the year, we pay $650 a month for a 60' slip, including launch, haul, blocking, power, water, wifi etc. Shrink wrap not included. Paying in full gets us 5% of our fees credited back for use at the fuel dock.

 

[slowgoesit]

I just closed on a GB36, 1973 vintage. Safe Harbor bought Silver Spring Marina in Wakefield and I was told they wouldn't allow my boat in their yard due to age. Condition or a survey didn't matter. Too old?, get lost.

Interesting, do you have a contract? Or are you month to month?

 

[Lollygag1]

I wonder if the age of boat issue is due to their insurance carrier.

 

[Jono57766]

Our slip fee went up also

Our slip fee went up about 10% this year, little more than the usual yearly increase. The marina has lost millions on their wedding/events venues this year due to COVID. In addition to that they have a waiting list that is ten times the usual.

 

[slowgoesit]

Business model

I guess if a business has a waiting list of customers wanting to pay whatever they charge, they can screw clients for all they're worth, and customer service takes a huge back seat. . .

 

[Jono57766]

For our marina they are losing alot of revenue due to covid. They also gave a three month extension on dues for 2020 due to covid (which I consider a generous gesture). Its easy to criticize the bigger businesses but at our marina they count on income from event venues which were next to non existence this year. They are a business and need to make a living. A 10% increase for us is about $500, I am happy with that if it keeps food and shelter for the business owners and family.

 

[BandB]

I guess if a business has a waiting list of customers wanting to pay whatever they charge, they can screw clients for all they're worth, and customer service takes a huge back seat. . .

Why do you call charging market prices screwing someone? Expenses have risen and, as he pointed out, they lost a lot of other business this year. Clearly, I'm a business person, but I don't understand the anger and ugliness toward businesses raising prices when they are full and have long waiting lists. We tried to moderate those increases this year but we had to raise prices throughout our businesses. All our costs increased significantly. We gave increases to our employees averaging about 10%, all materials and supplies increased in price, and we incurred tremendous costs protecting employees and customers (which we did not pass on) and reduced sales in many cases. To hear price increases called screwing clients just is distasteful.

 

[BandB]

For our marina they are losing alot of revenue due to covid. They also gave a three month extension on dues for 2020 due to covid (which I consider a generous gesture). Its easy to criticize the bigger businesses but at our marina they count on income from event venues which were next to non existence this year. They are a business and need to make a living. A 10% increase for us is about $500, I am happy with that if it keeps food and shelter for the business owners and family.

In some cases, it's what keeps the business open. Marinas were hurt in many different ways. Transient business down, fuel sales, if they had events normally then those were gone. That's without protective equipment and any testing they might have paid for over the year and salary for employees who quarantined.

I try to always consider the customer side of things, but customers need to be respectful of the business challenges.

 

[ronobrien]

I think it probably is insurance. However that doesn't change my problem. I don't have a place to put my boat as of yet.

 

[slowgoesit]

Why do you call charging market prices screwing someone? Expenses have risen and, as he pointed out, they lost a lot of other business this year. Clearly, I'm a business person, but I don't understand the anger and ugliness toward businesses raising prices when they are full and have long waiting lists. We tried to moderate those increases this year but we had to raise prices throughout our businesses. All our costs increased significantly. We gave increases to our employees averaging about 10%, all materials and supplies increased in price, and we incurred tremendous costs protecting employees and customers (which we did not pass on) and reduced sales in many cases. To hear price increases called screwing clients just is distasteful.

BandB,

Increasing costs unreasonably on one part of a business to make up for a complete lack of income from another part of the business IMHO is screwing the customer.

Safe Harbor Marinas is one example I see where business owners, often not well versed in a specific business type buy up marinas, increase prices, arbitrarily forcing out, or excluding certain customers (see current thread on forum where new purchaser of a '79 GB36 was told by Safe Harbor Marina that his boat is no longer welcome at marina due to age) or raising prices to make up for other "lost income" in my opinion is "screwing clients". Pretty straight forward.

It was not my intention to paint with a broad brush, saying everyone is taking advantage of the customers, but many are, under the guise of charging "market prices", when they buy up so many marinas that they have potentially have a monopoly on the market in some areas.

Not going to get into a long winded debate on this. It's my opinion, agree with it, or not, as you chose. For the most part I've agreed with your opinions expressed on the forum. A few I haven't agreed with. Fair is fair, and that's what makes life interesting!

I too am a "business person", whose business relies heavily on large numbers of people getting together to purchase our work, and commission custom work based on what they see we can do, and it basically completely died in 2020 due to Covid 19. As it should have. Big Gatherings = more exposure = more sickness = more potential deaths. I get it, not blaming anyone, or mad at anyone . . .

Hey, stuff happens, but we didn't raise out prices to our longtime customers, trying to "make up" lost income, just because they are not able to attend gatherings and purchase from someone else. We just decided that it was a good time to fold the business and move on to something else. No one's to blame, I'm not mad at anyone, it's just life.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree!

 

[rslifkin]

I too am a "business person", whose business relies heavily on large numbers of people getting together to purchase our work, and commission custom work based on what they see we can do, and it basically completely died in 2020 due to Covid 19. As it should have. Big Gatherings = more exposure = more sickness = more potential deaths. I get it, not blaming anyone, or mad at anyone . . .

Hey, stuff happens, but we didn't raise out prices to our longtime customers, trying to "make up" lost income, just because they are not able to attend gatherings and purchase from someone else. We just decided that it was a good time to fold the business and move on to something else. No one's to blame, I'm not mad at anyone, it's just life.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree!

Situations like that are why I'm willing to forgive a good marina raising prices in a year where demand is high. In those years, if they lose a couple of customers over the price increase, they know they can replace them. And that puts a little extra money in their bank. For a business running fairly thin margins, that may be the difference between them surviving or not in a period of lower demand (where they may not be full and can't afford to lose customers if they raise prices).



Raising prices to the highest the market will bear in search of every last dollar of profit is a whole different story though, and that just screws the consumer in the end.

 

[BandB]

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree!

I just saw no evidence that the marina in question raised a rate unreasonably. All evidence was that their increased rate was at or below the market.

 

[BandB]

Situations like that are why I'm willing to forgive a good marina raising prices in a year where demand is high. In those years, if they lose a couple of customers over the price increase, they know they can replace them. And that puts a little extra money in their bank. For a business running fairly thin margins, that may be the difference between them surviving or not in a period of lower demand (where they may not be full and can't afford to lose customers if they raise prices).
.

During the pandemic, for many businesses, survival and continuing to pay employees was possible only because of previous profits. I know we got through 2020 because we hadn't withdrawn the 2019 profits and we returned the 2018 profits to the business. Our number one goal is providing good jobs to many people. Next is serving customers well. Third is good vendor relationships. However, if we lose money, none of those are possible.

As marinas go, the marina consistently undercharging may look like they're doing fine until time comes to replace or rebuild some docks or land assets. Then they find they don't have the funds to do so. If a marina isn't setting money aside into a capital fund at all times, they face future problems. One reason Safe Harbor was able to buy some of these marinas is they need some rebuilding and maintenance and the former owners weren't willing or able to do it.

 

[Lollygag1]

Swung by the marina today and noticed they are installing a new retaining wall and have a few new docks going in. Definitely a pricey job. They also have a new yard manager who I have worked with in the past. Will be interested to see what other improvements they are doing.

I feel there are a number of marinas that have been family owned for some time and that the next generation has no desire to continue. This allows the consolidators to come in and make a good offer allowing the kids to cash out.

I was have seen this with other industry's and been involved in it back in the 90's.

 

[BandB]

Swung by the marina today and noticed they are installing a new retaining wall and have a few new docks going in. Definitely a pricey job. They also have a new yard manager who I have worked with in the past. Will be interested to see what other improvements they are doing.

I feel there are a number of marinas that have been family owned for some time and that the next generation has no desire to continue. This allows the consolidators to come in and make a good offer allowing the kids to cash out.

I was have seen this with other industry's and been involved in it back in the 90's.

You've described the situation well. It is what we've done in retail over the years. An individual or couple builds some worth in the business but no family interested and no easy escape. Not a lot of people out there with the money and buying marinas. Now, Safe Harbor doesn't always pay cash for the full amount but often is part cash and part stock which is now in Sun. Their only other choice often is walking away with nothing. Many are shocked to find out that the market for their business isn't higher than it is. It's sad sometimes to watch people who have invested years or decades now walk away from their business, although some stay on as employees, either full time or part time.

I also looked at marinas at one time, including the ones Safe Harbor owned in their previous life which were available at their bankruptcy auction as Marinas International. A single marina may be worth while for an individual owner. However, not for an investor. Investing only makes sense with multiple, and in my opinion a very large number of, marinas. I believe their approach makes a lot of sense. I just hope they execute it well and don't get greedy over dividends or stock sales. I know nothing about Sun, beyond publicly available information. I always fear the unknown.

 

[catalinajack]

Our marina was not (apparently) not hurt by Covid. Transients are a small, very small, part of their business. As far as I can see, their slips are as full as ever except on our dock which accommodates larger boats. Next season our slip will cost $200 more, $5,800. But, they also increased the live aboard fee from $100 per month to $150. Now that pissed me off cuz we get virtually nothing for that monthly fee but they charge a fee cuz, well, they can. Anyway, that increased fee caused me to look elsewhere. I found two good nearby options. The first would cost $4,300. The other will cost $4,100 but the first season will be 1/2 off the slip fee for the first year so $1,700 plus a $700 live aboard fee. Plus, this place has great amenties, large pool, large, clean, bathhouse, pavilions, loads of parking, beats hell out of our present marina. My point is, supply and demand works as it always has. In our case, the increases caused us to look around. Come March 31st we will be motoring over to a new marina.

By the way, in five years here, I have never seen a full house on the big boat dock and, in the winter about 20 slips are empty. Just because a business needs more revenue, or wants more revenue, increasing fees can be counterproductive if customers go elsewhere and empty slips continue to go unfilled. For us, even paying full price the second year will be a savings of $3,300 not to mention a way better infrastructure.

In some cases, it's what keeps the business open. Marinas were hurt in many different ways. Transient business down, fuel sales, if they had events normally then those were gone. That's without protective equipment and any testing they might have paid for over the year and salary for employees who quarantined.

I try to always consider the customer side of things, but customers need to be respectful of the business challenges.

 

[rslifkin]

Just because a business needs more revenue, or wants more revenue, increasing fees can be counterproductive if customers go elsewhere and empty slips continue to go unfilled.

That's a big key. That's where I was going with my last point. Sometimes there are periods where you can't increase income by increasing prices as the demand isn't there to sustain it. So the business has to make enough during the high demand periods to cover a period where they can't make a price adjustment and aren't 100% full.

 

[ronobrien]

Sorry for not getting back sooner. I am also not sure if I am responding correctly (new to the forum). I wasn't a customer, I just bought the boat in November 2020. My point was if they exclude based on age, and they continue to buy up marinas i may be left with nowhere to dock a boat my age. I honestly don't know how they are treating existing customers. Please let me know if you got this reply, so I might know if I am responding correctly. Thanks.

 

[Lollygag1]

Ron, your message came through. As mentioned it may have something to do with their insurance carrier. Have you checked with other marinas in the Salt Pond or further up the bay?