Hard to flush

[MikeHorsfall]

Hello,

There are lots of good explanations in this section about heads and holding tanks, but I couldn’t decipher the right clue for my issue (although I’ll bet it’s right under my nose).

Prior to buying our Monk 36 we had the holding tank replaced with a polypropylene 34g tank. The aft head has not flushed properly since - I assumed the boatyard would have tested it, and in the excitement of the purchase didn’t check it myself.

It’s a manual pump, twist & lock type head, and when I go to flush it I feel a springy resistance like pushing against air pressure. After a few pumps I can’t push the lever down an inch. A few seconds later a couple of big, weird smelling bubbles come up from below, and I can pump a few more times. The pattern repeats.

I have eyeballed the holding tank to make sure I’m not pumping it out of shape, and we have emptied the tank successfully a few times.

I suspect a venting issue, but am a newbie at this and am not sure I understand the systems fully. I’ve tried tracing the journey from the bowl to the tank, but not very successfully.

Also, possibly a related concern.... it seems like pumping waste forward about 10 - 12 feet through a fairly small tube is not the best way to deal with this issue. I’d be interested to hear what are your favorite heads. This forum has opened my eyes to several types of products. I appreciate the input. (All puns unintended).

Thanks!

 

[Comodave]

You need to talk to Peggie Hall. She is the expert on all things related to heads. You can look her up and PM her. She is Head Mistress on this forum.

 

[MikeHorsfall]

Thanks, Comodave. I have read her posts with interest and have looked up her book on Amazon. I will take your advice. MH

 

[Comodave]

Oh, BTW welcome aboard.

 

[dhays]

Thanks, Comodave. I have read her posts with interest and have looked up her book on Amazon. I will take your advice. MH

Buy Peggie’s book from Amazon which allows you to get both the hard copy and the kindle version. It is REALLY nice to have access to her book whether on the boat or at home. Kindle apps are available for iPad, Android, and computers.

My first ignorant guess would be a vent problem or a tank that is full.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

100% on Peggie's book.

Blocked or kinked vent hose?

 

[DavidM]

Not sure it is the vent hose, particularly since the other head presumably pumps ok. So probably a blocked or kinked main hose from the head to the tank. Also possibly a problem with the head pump.



David

 

[RT Firefly]

 

[Gordon J]

Try opening the deck pump out and then flush. If it flushes with the deck pump out open, you probably have a kinked or blocked vent. Another thing that will make it hard to pump out is if the Y valve is set to overboard discharge and the discharge through hull is shut off.

Gordon

 

[Steve]

If you are having the problem with the aft head only it may be that the PVC pipe going forward to the holding tank is clogged, apparently urine and seawater causes heavy mineral build up on the walls. you might want to remove it and check it and connecting hoses, if nothing else is found. not a fun or easy job some folks clean it out maybe easier to replace it with new. I believe Peggy recommends a weekly flushing of vinegar to help keep it clean.
She will probably have advice.
Welcome! we sure enjoy our Monk 36 I'm sure you will too.

 

[HeadMistress]

I've got this...he sent me a PM and we just had a nice chat on the phone about it. I'm pretty sure I know what his problem is, but can't be certain till he's on the boat again tomorrow and can confirm it. I'll post when I'm sure.

--Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

 

[MikeHorsfall]

Thanks for all your suggestions to this problem. Much appreciated! Steve, on ‘Gumbo’, nice to connect with another Monk. I’ve benefited from your posts on the MOA site. Peggie, thanks for your time. I look forward to reading your book.

 

[HopCar]

Just want to follow this thread to see what the problem was.

My guess would be a problem on the flush water intake side. A blockage on the intake would cause you to pull a vacuum on top of the piston on the down stroke. It would Feel like you’re trying to compress air. Check to see if the intake seacock is open.

Of course that doesn’t explain the bubbles in the bowl.

 

[Comodave]

Yes, please post the solution when you find the problem.

 

[psneeld]

Sounds like a y valve to a closed seacock instead of the holding tank or a discharge hose that has completely blocked itself with who knows what.

Like Gordon J posted in #9

 

[HeadMistress]

Still waiting to hear back from him after he's checked out a couple of things. He told me yesterday he planned to be on the boat today, so I'm sure I will soon.


--Peggie

 

[Gmarr]

Channeling my last convo with Peggie- Jabsco and a faulty wet dry cam or whatever it’s called.... it’s on my to do list with same symptoms

 

[ranger58sb]

Also, possibly a related concern.... it seems like pumping waste forward about 10 - 12 feet through a fairly small tube is not the best way to deal with this issue. I’d be interested to hear what are your favorite heads.

I've come to appreciate electric macerating toilets, with freshwater flush.

Had Vacuflush with freshwater, previously, and it worked OK; the loud POP! in the middle of the night could be a bit disconcerting for all aboard, though...

-Chris

 

[kenk]

"It’s a manual pump, twist & lock type head, and when I go to flush it I feel a springy resistance like pushing against air pressure."

It sounds like you have a Jabsco manual toilet. I had the exact problem you are explaining and it had nothing to do with the holding tank or vent. The problem is with the pump. You can get a rebuild kit or just replace the complete pump for a few extra dollars. I replaced the pump, a 5 minute job. Never had a problem after I replaced it.
Here is a link to get a new pump
https://www.wholesalemarine.com/manual-pump-assembly.html

 

[HeadMistress]

[FONT=&quot]I'm 99% certain that his problem isn't in the plumbing or the tank vent...it's in the toilet: A failed wet/dry cam. It's been [/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]a very common in Jabsco manual toilets several years[/FONT]. The wet/dry "valve" is actually just a little "gate" (the cam) that the lever swings to block or unblock the flow of incoming flush water. Due to either a tooling or mfr'g flaw, it hangs up...creating back pressure that feels like pumping against a clog or blocked tank vent, except usually only happens in one mode. Jiggling the lever can sometimes--but not always--free it up, but only for a couple of flushes. The only real cure: replace the wet/dry cam assembly. If the toilet is fairly new, Jabsco often sends out a new one for no charge...but then you have to take the pump apart to replace it, which can be a PITA and really messy because you can't flush water through the pump to clean it out before you take it apart.

So my advice: just replace the pump instead.modern Jabsco toilets have fairly short lifespan anyway--an average of about 2 years 'cuz they're purposely made to be "disposable" like everything else today. A service kit costs almost as much as a pump, which doesn't cost that much anyway, and swapping it out only requires removing and replacing the 4 bolts that hold the pump on the base and two hoses, which beats the socks off taking the pump apart![/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Better yet, replace it with a reliable trouble-free toilet that's still made in the US. If you want to stick with a sea water manual toilet, the Raritan PH SuperFlush [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Raritan PH SuperFlush is the newest version of the PHII, which has been the top rated manual toilet since it was introduced in 1982. Will easily last 20 years if you keep it well lubricated put a rebuild kit in it every 5-6 years...Defender has it for < $300. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Raritan PH SuperFlush Manual Toilet at Defender If you want to stay with a manual toilet, but would prefer to flush with fresh water, the Raritan Fresh Head is the only manual toilet designed to use onboard pressurized fresh water. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Raritan Fresh Head Both are available as either a complete toilet or a "conversion" (everything south of the bowl, which allows you to re-use your Jabsco bowl, seat and lid. The mounting bolt patterns on both are an exact match for the Jabsco manual.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]If you've decided it's time to upgrade to the push-button convenience of an electric macerating toilet, there are several good choices: the Raritan Marine Elegance [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Raritan Marine_Elegance Promo.pdf is top rated, very popular and can be found for < $700 including the 4 option "Smart Flush Panel." Tecma (now owned by Thetford) is available in several models and is popular with a lot of trawler owners [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Tecma Permanent Sanitation | Thetford Marine [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]--Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein
[/FONT]

 

[MikeHorsfall]

Thanks for all the input! Between Peggie’s expertise and your insights I have decided to replace the Jabsco head. The problem has gotten worse, and after tracing a few hoses, reading your stories, and noticing that West Marine stocks rebuild kits for Jabsco heads (why? Cuz they fail), I have decided to order a new Raritan Superflush toilet. Rated very high, Peggie swears by them, they fit the same footprint as a Jabsco head, and West Marine will match low prices. Luckily the forward head works... (hmm, it’s a Jabsco. Great.)

 

[Comodave]

Yup, you can never go wrong listening to Peggie.

 

[HeadMistress]

Luckily the forward head works... (hmm, it’s a Jabsco. Great.)


Which gives you time to start saving your "boatcoin" for a replacement. Meanwhile be sure to keep it well lubricated.



--Peggie

 

[catalinajack]

Thanks for all the input! Between Peggie’s expertise and your insights I have decided to replace the Jabsco head. The problem has gotten worse, and after tracing a few hoses, reading your stories, and noticing that West Marine stocks rebuild kits for Jabsco heads (why? Cuz they fail), I have decided to order a new Raritan Superflush toilet. Rated very high, Peggie swears by them, they fit the same footprint as a Jabsco head, and West Marine will match low prices. Luckily the forward head works... (hmm, it’s a Jabsco. Great.)

Yup. I replaced the two heads, very old, on our 1983 Defever 44 with Raritan Marine Elegance fresh water heads. Press the button and macerated poop goes to the tank. Love 'em. Easy install on my boat.

 

[MikeHorsfall]

Aha! Found the problem, fixed the head. Yuck! There was a big calcified plug right at the elbow fitting on the holding tank. We wrestled the hose off the fitting, cleared out the disgusting calcified lump, fastened everything back and the head works like it should. I appreciate everyone’s help as it aided in diagnosing various problems and solutions. Plus, this problem forced me to get close and personal with many parts of the ship I hadn’t been in. Now to develop a good, regular maintenance program.

 

[Comodave]

Easiest maintenance program is to not use it... Glad you found the problem.

 

[HeadMistress]

Easiest maintenance program is to not use it...


Apply that same logic to your engine and you'd better have towing insurance. Too many boat owners never learn that PREVENTIVE maintenance is always cheaper and easier than cure. And the best thing about preventive maintenance is that you get to do it at your convenience...which is never true of cure.


--Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

 

[Comodave]

Peggie,

I was joking.

 

[Lou_tribal]

Peggie,

I was joking.

Oh you and your cheap sense of humor! Lol

L

 

[HeadMistress]

I should have realized that, but my sense of humor has been macerated by MicroSoft. The very first Windows 10 update (from version 1709 to v. 1803) on a brand new office desktop tower wiped out half the MS "apps" on it. A "known issue that happens sometimes" according to my guru (who's been my 'puter guru for 10 yrs). At least I still have a working laptop, so I'm not totally dead in the water, just VERY grumpy.


--Peggie