Hardtop verses Canopy

[RichardC]

Hi all, we currently have a canvas canopy over our DeFever 44 fly-bridge that's leaking like a sieve. I'm thinking about going to a full length hardtop. I know how subjective this issue is regarding extra weight, cost and longevity. What I want is opinions from owners who have done this already. Is it worth the cost, estimate of improved value, maintenance issues and finally satisfaction your with your decision.

Thank you
Richard

 

[Ken E.]

I have done this, had a hard top made about 10 years ago. Excellent against the sun and rain and a good spot for solar panels. Worth the money, about $8k at the time from Altlantic Towers; can't speak to value change although it should be an enhancement; no maintenance which is a big plus over canvas; very satisfied as a summary comment.

 

[mvweebles]

In the process of doing this for my Willard 36. Keep it light with foam core if for no other reason but handling is easier. Cost varies with how complex you want the electrics (lighting, instruments etc). Agree with previous post about rain, solar panels, etc. Really grounds the flybridge. And no canvas to blow away.

I can't speak to resale, though I'd be stunned if it reduced. My 7' x 11' hardtop was around $8k in Mexico with SS supports, though paint was part of an overall paint job so might be artificially low.

Given your boat, I'd have zero concern about weight.

 

[rslifkin]

As long as you don't need to drop the bimini sometimes for air draft concerns, I'd do it. I intend to replace my bimini with a hard top in the next few years, as it's not an air draft concern, I'd like a place to mount radar, and we never drop the bimini anyway, only the angled back part of the covers (which I'll retain as canvas, keeping the hard top to about 2/3 length, probably just a few inches longer than the current bimini).

I also intend to do a light foam cored hardtop, as in my case it doesn't need to support much weight, nobody needs to be able to stand on it, etc. It just has to be strong enough to hold a radome and handle wind loads.

 

[Comodave]

We have put hardtotop.com hardtops on 2 boats. Absolutely love them, no affiliation. They are lightweight and easy to install. They let light through. They are fairly economical. You can get it with or without the large aluminum trim around the edge. You can also get Keder strips for the edges so it is very easy to fabricate the enclosure. We made a pattern for the front and sent the patterns to a canvas guy in NJ to make EZ2CY panels for the front. We made the hardtop a bit larger than absolutely necessary as we wanted to open up the bridge and make it seem bigger, and it worked. The whole top came in a box about 6”x24”x14’ and weighed about 90 pounds or so. It took 3 of us a day to install it. We wanted the negative angle on the front enclosure so if it isn’t raining really hard we can leave the front open and the rain doesn’t get on the enclosure as much.

 

[foggysail]

I had Atlantic make a hardtop for the aft deck area some 15 years ago along with a radar arch. Very happy with being dry especially after I enclosed that deck. My canvas got to be a PITA with leaks over the helm and had Atlantic make another to cover it. First hard top along with the radar arch was about $8K installed. The last one was under $7K installed.

As someone above mentioned, hardtops make a great place to install solar. I have about 600W on each for a total wattage just under 1200. We are very pleased with the installations!

 

[StarChaser]

RichardC,

Something you can try is to apply a coating of Scotchguard. It's only a temporary fix but it might get you through.

I have canvas biminis over the Flybridge and my aft deck. I plan on replacing them with hardtops to allow me to install Solar panels and a place for my tender. Price for me is not comparable to other forum members. I have a shop that will allow me to fabricate virtually everything I need except the steel itself.





Star

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. RC. Go with a hardtop unless, as Mr. rs mentions, you might have "air draft" concerns.

 

[markpierce]

Air draft? We don't worry about stinkin' air draft.

 

[Codger2]

What I want is opinions from owners who have done this already. Is it worth the cost, estimate of improved value, maintenance issues and finally satisfaction your with your decision.

My answers are yes, yes, yes & yes. When we started looking for our Ocean Alexander, high on our list of "must haves" was a hard top. No more rotting canvas, constant scrubbing bird poop off and worrying about high winds blowing it off. As others have pointed out, It's a great place for radar, satellite dish domes, solar, etc. Do it, it will be one of the best things you ever did for your boat!

 

[Comodave]

We had Atlantic Towers make a hardtop for a previous boat’s cockpit. It was very nice but pretty pricey. We then put a hardtotop hardtop on the flybridge of that boat. It isn’t as nice looking but was about 1/4 of the cost. If you want to spend the money, I can recommend Atlantic Towers as a great hardtop. It depends on where you live though, it cost about 1400 for shipping to Michigan from NJ.

 

[FF]

"Air draft? We don't worry about stinkin' air draft."


The folks on the AICW may find a transit speed of 6K as their norm if they have to get a bridge open , as the bridge tenders usually wait for transiting packs of sail boats .

 

[ranger58sb]

Can't speak to retrofitting, but our boat came with a hardtop and we love it. No signficant maintenance other then the usual washing... and some occasional waxing on the smooth bits around the edges (interior is all non-skid).

Makes for lots of real estate to mount stuff -- antennas, lights, hailer in our case, but it would also be decent for mounting solar panels -- and it handles a winter time snow load where a bimini wouldn't.

We also have a full enclosure and leave that all installed during winter... so the flybridge can be reasonably comfortable on some winter days... even if there's snow up there...

-Chris

 

[RichardC]

Thanks

Thank you all for you feedback, we will commence getting quotes. Expect it to be expensive as it's a large area but everyone was very positive about the final result.
Cheers
Richard.

 

[FF]

IF the hardtop will be walked on , a rough guess would be 3 lbs per sq ft of area.

 

[mvweebles]

Question for hard-top folks: Why are hardtops generally quite high, meaning a lot of headroom - often 8-feet or more. In putting a hardtop on my Willard 36 (which hasn't been floated yet), I agonized over keeping it low profile. I arched the top 4-5 inches to keep the center at about 6'4" but the side looks lower (I have benches down the sides - and the overall headroom in the salon is a bit low, so it matches). But so many hardtops I looked at have enormous headroom which, to my eye, is not as aesthetically pleasing compared to lowering the height 6-inches or more.

Why the height on most hardtops? Any thoughts on a minimum height? 7-feet, about the height of a typical household doorway?

Peter

 

[mvweebles]

"Air draft? We don't worry about stinkin' air draft."

The folks on the AICW may find a transit speed of 6K as their norm if they have to get a bridge open , as the bridge tenders usually wait for transiting packs of sail boats .

Air draft played a role in my decision to refit my Willard 36 and move it to Florida, and in the design of the hardtop to keep it low. When I moved to Florida, I was certain it was go-fast country. No place for a slow trawler. But then I spent some quality time aboard a friend's Horizon PowerCat 52 with a 28-foot air draft. Leaving aside fuel burn, she's capable of almost 20-knots which goes to zero at majority of bridges on the ICW, and 6-kts in the many, many no-wake zones (St Pete FL). Plus he tapped bottom a while back which cost several thousand dollars in prop repairs.

My takeaways that brought my displacement trawler into play for Florida, at least in my mind:

1. If I remove the mast on my W36, I could fit under vast majority of the bridges. Goal is Loop ready at 14'6". Means I need a davit crane for the dinghy, and went with Nick Jackson pipe davit.
2. 6-1/2 kts without pause is about the same as 18-kts that slows to slow-bells in no-wake zones; and to zero at bridge openings;
3. Hard-top enclosure. I really doubt I will enclose the space. I may provide forward Isenglass for the massive rains we get around here, but that's about it. Breezes are adequate for us. Only question mark are mosquitoes. Hoping a ThermaCell will resolve.

Point being is that bridge clearance was an important factor for me in the design of my hardtop. Water draft was an important factor in deciding a displacement trawler made sense in skinny-water country like Florida. My Willard draws just under 4-feet, about the same as my friends PC52. Difference is my boat has a well protected prop so I am perfectly comfortable nosing into 4-foot waters with precautions (taking into account tide, sand bottom, etc.). My friend starts twitching at about 10-feet, with palpitations below about 7-feet. At 6-feet depth, his knees give out and needs oxygen to keep from fainting (slight exaggeration, but you get the idea). That's a huge advantage here.

Apologies for the thread diversion.

Peter

 

[jsbraga]

I had a hardtop installed on my Selene. Great decision. Sold the boat without trying. I give the decision a “10”. Alba Yacht Service’s in Miami did the build, install and painted the boat. Poof, went the Bimini!!!

 

[sunchaser]

Hi all, we currently have a canvas canopy over our DeFever 44 fly-bridge that's leaking like a sieve. I'm thinking about going to a full length hardtop. I know how subjective this issue is regarding extra weight, cost and longevity. What I want is opinions from owners who have done this already. Is it worth the cost, estimate of improved value, maintenance issues and finally satisfaction your with your decision.

Thank you
Richard

Our Stamoid top leaks nothing. The cost and weight aloft of a hardtop steered us away a few tears ago when we replaced older Sunbrella (leaky after 10 years) with Stamoid and Lexan.

Much of the decision comes down to local skills. Some hard tops look pretty silly. Look at a finished example from your builder of choice. A proper factory job like Codger's is great, but on a DF the price of a nicely designed hard top scared us off.

 

[Codger2]

Some hard tops look pretty silly.

i couldn't agree more! I've seen some pretty ugly hard tops!

 

[caltexflanc]

I played with the idea of having a hard top on our old Hatteras, primarily for solar. But we had a Stamoid bimini and a nice hydraulic radar arch that easily held open array radar, GPS antennas, TV dome, etc.

When we had the occasion (which after a trip or two we took pains to avoid) to go through bridge intensive areas like south Florida, being able to get under 20 foot bridges with top and arch down was nice the time we tried it. Otherwise just set our speed to match the opening of the next bridge and take our time.

So the hard top never made it to The List.

As a side note, cruising up and down the eastern seaboard, the boat had a complete bridge enclosure in pristine condition that two prior owners ago had made. It was stored in the large console area under the upper helm. The PO never took it out and neither did we.

 

[danderer]

i couldn't agree more! I've seen some pretty ugly hard tops!

Mine was that way (PO did it). Still, ugly as it was, we really appreciated it. Large, open, airy feeling, great shade, and no leaks.

 

[ranger58sb]

Question for hard-top folks: Why are hardtops generally quite high, meaning a lot of headroom - often 8-feet or more.

Why the height on most hardtops? Any thoughts on a minimum height? 7-feet, about the height of a typical household doorway?

Don't know, but in our case the factory hardtop also incorporates an electronics box... and the bottom of that box needs to be high enough so it doesn't obscure forward vision... so maybe that's part of why the height of the hardtop is higher than it might otherwise need to be.

Of course that also means any systems in that box are too high for my Admiral's easy ...

-Chris

 

[rslifkin]

For the height thing, I expect I'd keep a hardtop at the same height as my bimini, which is about 6'6" off the deck (a little more than I've got for cabin headroom). I see no reason to go higher, as I'd already need a filler panel above the windshields at that height, or taller windshields.

 

[sunchaser]

For the height thing, I expect I'd keep a hardtop at the same height as my bimini, which is about 6'6" off the deck (a little more than I've got for cabin headroom). I see no reason to go higher, as I'd already need a filler panel above the windshields at that height, or taller windshields.

Taller people like more than 6'6". Art DeFever was a big tall guy. His designs including ER were specifically designed to fit him. Our radar arch is close to 7' off the FB deck, pretty common for many vessels. BTW, many designs include NBAers in their thinking, a substantial market I've heard.

 

[Comodave]

NBA players don’t buy our old boats...

 

[sunchaser]

NBA players don’t buy our old boats...

But tall "poor" folks do.

 

[Shaunc]

Can anyone post the details who have had them made
Would love to know who made them (if happy), what size and cost.
It’s on my wish list for 2020 , as were many other things that have gone to hell, but would like to start enquiring.

I love the look of our Bimini and agree some hardtop look ugly, but if I can get one made that does not look like a piece of plywood, I would consider replacing it

 

[Ken E.]

Mine was built by Atlantic Towers. You can see what their hardtops look like at their website. If you're interested in proceeding with them, they will want pictures of your boat and measurements. They will create a drawing and send it to you for approval. The whole process with them was methodical and professional. I was very happy with the result. Materials and workmanship were both very good. My boat is on page 7 of the testimonials at the website, drink in hand.

 

[mickand]

$500 Hardtop

2 x 4x8 shower wall boards from Home Depot. Think they were $72 each. Laid them on the garage floor with foil around the edges and down the join to stop drips. Laid 2 x 1.5oz layers of fiberglass mat. Installed using the existing bimini frame and pipe clamps. Hasn't been up long but seems to work and I'm now installing a couple of flexible solar panels on top. Can't really assess the weight but maybe 75lbs.