Heat transfer fluid? help..

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Yes coolant but better..

someone had posted a link to a product.
i cant find the post or the link...

since i am flushing the system and putting in new coolant i figure why not go the distance and get this stuff...
(if i can find it again)
 
Check your local solar supply houses.

Nothing is better at transferring heat than plain old freshwater but it does tend to dissolve the engine.

You may be launching an expensive experiment. I would chat with the engine manufacturer or a large industrial diesel dealer for information and advice.

There are many products on the market, they are used mostly for specialized applications because they are not inexpensive and are chosen for particular properties.
 
evanscoolant.edoperformance.com/

If you want to run higher temperatures.
 
Yes coolant but better..

someone had posted a link to a product.
i cant find the post or the link...

since i am flushing the system and putting in new coolant i figure why not go the distance and get this stuff...
(if i can find it again)

I don't think you can go wrong with whatever the engine's manufacturer specifies for coolant. That coolant will not only cool the engine properly, it will have the necessary additives to prevent freezing, prevent corrosion, lubricate the pump, etc.

If you think you need a better product because the specified coolant is not cooling properly, you have a mechanical problem that needs to be addressed. It could be as simple as a defective thermostat or far more serious. A different coolant will not "fix" it.
 
evanscoolant

BINGO

Evans Heavy Duty Coolant waterless coolant boils at 375° F and is a lifetime coolant.
It does NOT contain water, which means less corrosion.
 
Is that Evan's coolant really worth the cost?One decent leak and you've lost a good bit of pocket change.
 
If anyone is thinking of a "lifetime coolant" he better find out if all the additives are also "lifetime". And if the coolant manufacturer will pay for engine repairs if they are related to the coolant.
 
BINGO

Evans Heavy Duty Coolant waterless coolant boils at 375° F and is a lifetime coolant.
It does NOT contain water, which means less corrosion.

If your engine gets that hot, coolant is the least of your worries.
 
If your engine gets that hot, coolant is the least of your worries.

Thanks Rick, why is that?
lets define "that hot" = 240 deg Fahrenheit when water is no longer a good cooling medium.
 
What does your engine operator's manual state as the maximum coolant temperature leaving the block?

I would be surprised if it was more than a degree or two over 200*F with an absolute maximum of around 215. At that temperature you are really cooking the lube oil and seals not to mention getting some pretty radical hotspots on the pistons, valves, and liners. That is approaching or at seizure temperatures for many engines.

When a liner overheats it begins to create "micro-seizures" between the rings and cylinder wall that pull off little tiny chunks of metal and start a downhill ride to a grinding halt. The engine will probably restart after cooling but the damage won't go away and will inevitably lead to another even more damaging event further down the channel.

In my opinion, looking for a way to exceed the manufacturer's limits is not a real good idea.
 
In my opinion, looking for a way to exceed the manufacturer's limits is not a real good idea.

i am not looking to exceed the manufacturers limits.
just being overcautious in case of an overheating issue.
if your engine overheats this coolant will keep cooling.
water based coolant will expand, blow steam in your engine and make cracks in big blocks of iron.
 
I don't want to get into a pointless discussion but how did this engine get to 240* to begin with if it didn't lose its coolant?

If it got that hot because the moving parts are grinding together then it is toast anyway so having it filled with superhot liquid coolant isn't going to make it last any longer.

Just for fun, compare the heat removal capacity of your heat exchanger in a given unit of time with the amount of heat that is removed from the engine by evaporating a gallon of water in the same time.
 
It hasn't been explained yet how, if standard coolant approved by the engine manufacturer does the job, how can something else be "better"?

Do you get more power? Better fuel mileage? Longer engine life?
 
my engine(s) did not get that hot
you guys are probably over interpreting as there is no problem.
i am doing my heat exchangers this fall and instead of using old technology i am interested in using this stuff, it has some very strong abilities to cool and it does not contain water so no electrolysis and no corrosion, lifetime product, expensive up front but from the sounds of it cheaper long term.
 
I think Rick and Ron are making excellent points well worth heeding. If an engine manufacturer says fine, use the expensive waterless stuff, then fine, go ahead and use it. But assuming that because it has two properties--- no water and the ability to go to 375 degrees-- there are no other coolant properties that are important to your engine might be a mistake.

Also, I rather like the fact that if one of our engines starts to overheat it will quickly start blowing coolant and steam because we will smell it immediately at the helm directly above the engines (we never drive from the flying bridge and this is one reason why) and be able to do something about it before the engine destroys itself from overheating,which as Rick said will occur long, long before the engine gets to 375 degrees.

While our engines have overheat alarms I learned years ago that the primary purpose of an alarm is to tell you that the component it is guarding has just failed catastrophically.:) So alarms are nice to have but I don't put my total faith in them.

As to the cost issue, the trend today seems to be to not replace coolant on a schedule--- every year or two years or whatever--- but to test it to see if it's properties are still intact. If they are, don't change it. The test is apparently a simple thing that takes just a few minutes. So where convention may have you changing coolant on a regular basis, it may be that you can actually go a long, long time with the coolant that's in the engine now.

So there is an element of "if it ain't broke don't fix it" here. I think Rick is correct in saying that the fancy expensive "high-tech" coolant won't make your engines run any better. And when you consider the potential downsides--- it might not even be right for your engine and it may reduce the chances of your catching an overheat in time to prevent engine damage--- it might be smarter to stick with what the engine manufacturer recommended to begin with.

If we were talking gas engines here it might not matter. If your experiment didn't work you can buy a new engine for cheap. But given the cost of repairing or replacing a marinized diesel I would be reluctant to experiment with it without the manufacturer's blessing.

PS-- When you say no water so no electroysis, are you talking about the heat exchanger? Because if you are, your coolant may not have water in it but I'm pretty sure the salt water the raw water system is pushing through it has water in it. In fact, that's the water that will facilitate electrolysis if there is a problem of that type on your boat.
 
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my engine(s) did not get that hot
you guys are probably over interpreting as there is no problem.

I don't think we believe there is a problem or that you had one in the past, it is just that you appear to have found a solution that is looking for a problem.

It is great that the stuff won't boil until 375* but by that time you won't have an engine worth cooling anyway.

There probably isn't any real downside to using the stuff as long as your engine isn't under warranty and it is not harmful (which it probably isn't) but I just don't see an upside to it in this application. If you don't mind the expense and want to experiment, that's cool but it won't save your engine from coolant loss due to the failed pumps and heat exchangers or leaking hoses and fittings that normally cause overheating.

Like I said earlier, if that engine gets to 375* with a full load of coolant, you just got a new mooring anchor.

Marin had a great point about the scent of boiling coolant serving a very useful purpose as a last chance watchdog. That is kind of related to what I was alluding to, if the coolant is boiling, it won't rise above that temperature until it is all gone, the heat goes away with the steam rather than staying in the engine block. When it all boils away, then the engine grinds to a halt. That's why boiler tubes don't melt and steam locomotives can handle a firebox hot enough to melt steel, boiling is good.
 
"And if the coolant manufacturer will pay for engine repairs if they are related to the coolant."

Sure , just like Prestone does.

The purpose of the new coolant is two fold .

For OTR trucks the use of different thermostats allows a higher operating temperature , which aids efficiency.A 3% to 5% increase is usefull at 120,000 miles a year.

For old boats the coolant will only help if the engine is operated hard , seldom a trawler problem.

The usual trawler tractor marinization can not hold its rating (full power for hours may cost the engine) unlike a genuine marine engine with a 24/7 rating.

At high loads one problem that can destroy the engine from overheating is "Steam Pockets" which form usually in the cylinder head.
This local overheating can crack the head , the waterless coolant is insurance against this possibility.

For most folks chugging at 3GPH good old Prestone and distilled water is all you need.

BUT Prestone and other mfg recommend changing the stuff and flushing every 2 or 3 years .

Folks with modern engines may have cylinder walls exposed to the coolant (rather than in a sleeve) and will require a better grade of anti-freez with anti cavitation additives ( SCA ), and a coolant monitoring kit.

FF
 
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Thanks FF...
Water does well cooling up until it boils at 100 C, then it (to my knowledge) has no cooling abilities whatsoever. Not only that, the air produced in the vaporization process will act as an insulation barrier which will only add to the problem.
At which temp does actual damage occur to a diesel engine?
Statement from an article @ Evans
Quote:
In the future large fleets will be specifying equipment to be delivered with Evans HDTC in the cooling system and to be equipped with 205 F thermostats and programmed for fan-on at 230 F.
Unquote

What I am reading over and over is that the reason the max recommended operating temp of your engine is 210 degrees is NOT due to the actual limits of the engine, rather it is due to the fact that the cooling system stops cooling at this temp, simply because it is based on water.

Lets stop basing statements on assumptions and instead bring facts to the table.

Rick, please inform me where you have the facts that diesel engines become anchors if operated above 240 F or whatever temp actual failure occur.
 
I think Rick and Ron are making excellent points well worth heeding. If an engine manufacturer says fine, use the expensive waterless stuff, then fine, go ahead and use it. But assuming that because it has two properties--- no water and the ability to go to 375 degrees-- there are no other coolant properties that are important to your engine might be a mistake.

Also, I rather like the fact that if one of our engines starts to overheat it will quickly start blowing coolant and steam because we will smell it immediately at the helm directly above the engines (we never drive from the flying bridge and this is one reason why) and be able to do something about it before the engine destroys itself from overheating,which as Rick said will occur long, long before the engine gets to 375 degrees.

While our engines have overheat alarms I learned years ago that the primary purpose of an alarm is to tell you that the component it is guarding has just failed catastrophically.:) So alarms are nice to have but I don't put my total faith in them.

As to the cost issue, the trend today seems to be to not replace coolant on a schedule--- every year or two years or whatever--- but to test it to see if it's properties are still intact. If they are, don't change it. The test is apparently a simple thing that takes just a few minutes. So where convention may have you changing coolant on a regular basis, it may be that you can actually go a long, long time with the coolant that's in the engine now.

So there is an element of "if it ain't broke don't fix it" here. I think Rick is correct in saying that the fancy expensive "high-tech" coolant won't make your engines run any better. And when you consider the potential downsides--- it might not even be right for your engine and it may reduce the chances of your catching an overheat in time to prevent engine damage--- it might be smarter to stick with what the engine manufacturer recommended to begin with.

If we were talking gas engines here it might not matter. If your experiment didn't work you can buy a new engine for cheap. But given the cost of repairing or replacing a marinized diesel I would be reluctant to experiment with it without the manufacturer's blessing.

PS-- When you say no water so no electroysis, are you talking about the heat exchanger? Because if you are, your coolant may not have water in it but I'm pretty sure the salt water the raw water system is pushing through it has water in it. In fact, that's the water that will facilitate electrolysis if there is a problem of that type on your boat.

Rather backwards way of saying, "I would rather use a lessor quality product because if it fails I can smell when it happens".

I guess you must have experienced an overheat failure on your boat since you know that you could smell the antifreeze boiling and your alarm did not activate. I guess we now know why you dont like to drive from the bridge, you dont know when your engine(s) are cooking up a boil..why not just look at the gauges from time to time?

Electrolysis occur also inside the engine, inside the coolant channels.
(if you use a water based coolant that is..)
 
Rick, please inform me where you have the facts that diesel engines become anchors if operated above 240 F or whatever temp actual failure occur.

Never said any such thing. Read my posts ...

"Like I said earlier, if that engine gets to 375* with a full load of coolant, you just got a new mooring anchor."

What do you think is the most likely reason your engine might overheat? If loss of coolant circulation or raw water flow is among them then what does it matter what the boiling temperature of the coolant is?

Water does well cooling up until it boils at 100 C, then it (to my knowledge) has no cooling abilities whatsoever.

Quite the opposite occurs. Why do you suppose it is possible to boil water over an open flame in a paper cup?

Where do you think all that heat goes?

If you use a 15 psi radiator cap and 50 percent glycol/water mix which is pretty standard, the coolant won't boil until 260*F and the more you decrease the water the higher the boiling temperature but the lower the heat transfer rate. You might find it interesting to check the heat transfer rate of the stuff you find so compelling.

So go ahead and buy the no-water coolant if that is what you want. You don't need anyone else's permission and don't seem to want to hear reasons why it isn't necessarily worthwhile so why keep asking?
 
I guess you must have experienced an overheat failure on your boat since you know that you could smell the antifreeze boiling and your alarm did not activate. I guess we now know why you dont like to drive from the bridge, you dont know when your engine(s) are cooking up a boil..why not just look at the gauges from time to time?

Boy, you can be as bad as FlyWright when it comes to making baseless assumptions. Must be a California thing-- the east coasters don't seem to have the problem.

Yes, we have had overheats on an engine, due to raw water through hull blockages and once a failed coolant pump gasket (on the delivery trip after first getting the boat at which time we were driving from the flying bridge and--- gasp--- monitoring the gauges).

In each case we saw what was happening on the gauges long before the temperature reached any sort of danger point or even activated an alarm. Seeing the temperature rise trend on the gauge, we shut the engine down, tied off the shaft, and finished the run on the other engine.

In additon to what we saw happening on the gauge, we also smelled the coolant when we were in the main cabin which confirmed what we saw developing on the instrument was correct.

Because it's very easy to get distracted on a boat by the scenery or navigation or talking to other people we have a little pushubtton timer at the helm set for five minutes. It goes off, whoever's driving checks all the gauges, and resets the timer. I actually scan the instruments far more often than every five minutes, but the timer is good insurance.

Our gauges all have hash marks at their normal settings so it's even easier to tell at a glance if everything is normal or if something is starting to act up.

We don't drive the boat from the flying bridge because we both hate the sight picture from up there in terms of maneuvering the boat. Also, we averted an electrical fire (failing intercom/loud hailer unit) by being down below where my wife smelled the short or whatever it was and we quickly located the source and shut off the unit. When we pulled the unit out later the case was melted and the wood surrounding it was scorched and charred. Why it conintued functioning as this was happening I have no idea. But our first indication something was wrong was the smell. Had we been driving from up above, the first we may have known about the problem might have been the flames.

So next time, before jumping to incorrect conclusions, ask a few questions first. What you learn may surprise you.
 
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Rather backwards way of saying, "I would rather use a lessor quality product because if it fails I can smell when it happens".

Simply put, my point is, if standard coolant meets the manufacturer's requirements and does the job, there can be no practical imrovement. A 340 degree boiling point is irrelevant, because the engine will not reach that temperature and continue to run. The lack of water is irrelevant because the engine has been designed to run on a 50/50 mixture of coolanrt and water.

There will always be companies trying to sell people "better" or "improved" products at a higher cost, but unless there's a demonstrated improvement in longevity, reliability, efficiency, etc., there is no advantage to using them. It's just a way to get money from your pocket to theirs. Think of the magnets designed to align the fuel molecules, the carb adapters that supposedly mix the air and fuel better, the $300 air cleaners that are supposed to charge the air, nitrogen filled tires at $5 a pop, etc.

Now if you want to argue that it's beneficial to mix standard coolant with distilled water as opposed to tap water at a cost of $.89 per gallon, I will agree with you. I use three gallons when I replace my coolant.
 
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Quite the opposite occurs. Why do you suppose it is possible to boil water over an open flame in a paper cup?

Where do you think all that heat goes?

water does well absorbing heat, and actually during or at the vaporization point process a lot of energy is absorbed but once the water is vaporized there is no longer any heat absorption. however apply this to your diesel engine and gasses are formed inside your engine with local air forming and creating local hot spots which usually is to blame for cylinder head cracks.


If you use a 15 psi radiator cap and 50 percent glycol/water mix which is pretty standard, the coolant won't boil until 260*F and the more you decrease the water the higher the boiling temperature but the lower the heat transfer rate. You might find it interesting to check the heat transfer rate of the stuff you find so compelling.

Noted, and good point - I will check.
And worthwhile noting that another compelling pro of this product is that it needs not be under pressure and hence is much less likely to blow gaskets, seals etc.
 
Now if you want to argue that it's beneficial to mix standard coolant with distilled water as opposed to tap water at a cost of $.89 per gallon, I will agree with you. I use three gallons when I replace my coolant.

Not questioning your statement, I simply don't know. What are the advantages of using distilled water in a 50:50 coolant mix as opposed to tap water? And is the quality of the tap water a factor? Because around here, everyone I'm aware of uses regular tap water not only to mix with coolant but in batteries. Even the battery suppliers say that in this area, tap water is fine. (They do say that in other places, it may not be fine.)

Thanks.
 
Not questioning your statement, I simply don't know. What are the advantages of using distilled water in a 50:50 coolant mix as opposed to tap water? And is the quality of the tap water a factor? Because around here, everyone I'm aware of uses regular tap water not only to mix with coolant but in batteries. Even the battery suppliers say that in this area, tap water is fine. (They do say that in other places, it may not be fine.)

Thanks.


I only use distilled water.The chemicals used here to treat water scales up the radiator and block in vehicles.It also seems to break down coolants used in cars.I don't drink our water.I rarely eat at home because of it and I make sure my showers are quick as possible.
 
Not questioning your statement, I simply don't know. What are the advantages of using distilled water in a 50:50 coolant mix as opposed to tap water? And is the quality of the tap water a factor? Because around here, everyone I'm aware of uses regular tap water not only to mix with coolant but in batteries. Even the battery suppliers say that in this area, tap water is fine. (They do say that in other places, it may not be fine.)

Thanks.
Distilled water is pure. No chemicals or minerals. Tap water may introduce something that can harm the system or interact with the coolant.

It's less than $3.00 for me to be certain.
 
Quite the opposite occurs. Why do you suppose it is possible to boil water over an open flame in a paper cup?

Where do you think all that heat goes?

water does well absorbing heat, and actually during or at the vaporization point process a lot of energy is absorbed but once the water is vaporized there is no longer any heat absorption. however apply this to your diesel engine and gasses are formed inside your engine with local air forming and creating local hot spots which usually is to blame for cylinder head cracks.


If you use a 15 psi radiator cap and 50 percent glycol/water mix which is pretty standard, the coolant won't boil until 260*F and the more you decrease the water the higher the boiling temperature but the lower the heat transfer rate. You might find it interesting to check the heat transfer rate of the stuff you find so compelling.

Noted, and good point - I will check.
And worthwhile noting that another compelling pro of this product is that it needs not be under pressure and hence is much less likely to blow gaskets, seals etc.

If one wants to argue science, fine, but there is no need for anything more than the approved coolant in a stock boat (or car) engine.
 
Distilled water is pure. No chemicals or minerals. Tap water may introduce something that can harm the system or interact with the coolant.

It's less than $3.00 for me to be certain.

Thanks much.
 
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