High pilothouse, good or bad?

[CarlF]

but when retired, we will have all the time in the world to pick out weather windows

That's the way to approach this. That upper pilothouse will be fine because you are rarely going to be out in uncomfortable seas. You will simply wait for the weather.

The couple of times in your whole ownership of the boat that you do get caught out? - that boat can handle it better than you.

I would still add a lower autopilot, Gendenning and instruments in the galley for long nights. And a movable chair for when it's calm (which it usually will be).

You are also right that this should be about what will keep your wife boating. That's important because the alternative is she stays ashore and you get stuck with a crew of your male friends - who are old too and mostly complain about their knees and their bowels. It gets boring, really fast.

So does she like the boat? A lot? If not, keep looking.

Once you choose the boat, develop some strategies to keep her from moving ashore. One is to not make her do overnights. My wife hates overnights so instead of fighting it, I just get a friend to help and she "meets me there" usually after a long weekend with girlfriends. For me, these overnights average about 10 nights a year. I often pay for the friend's plane ticket. It's a small cost to have my wife aboard the other 355 days.

Second, learn to think in 288 mile jumps when going between cruising grounds (that is the distance you can go on an 8 knot boat leaving at dawn, going all night, and anchoring before dark). It's amazing how quickly you can eat up miles - and how painlessly. No need for formal watch schedules for one night. Cat naps will do. And you only leave if the weather forecast is great - and a 36 hour forecast is rarely wrong.

That boat can also go considerably faster than 8 knots for the cost of some fuel. Going 350 miles or 400 miles would not feel silly expensive from fuel burn.

While there's always a better boat "out there", there are many, many worse boats "out there". If you wife likes it, I'd jump at the opportunity.

 

[Woodland Hills]

You will not regret a tall wheelhouse in the PNW -- easier to spot flotsam and gets you into tight anchorages

Ditto the Bahamas: it lets you get a better look at the bottom.

 

[Hornloaded]

So does she like the boat? A lot? If not, keep looking.

She loves the boat, at least from the photos. I'm driving down to SD this Wednesday to look at it in person. If it passes that test, Ill bring her down to give it her blessing.


Every boat we have purchased over the last 30 years, we have said "should have bought the bigger boat" I do think this size and layout will work for us and our family.


We shall see.

 

[Wayne]

If you are concerned about being caught out in heavy weather where you question the integrity of the windows and doors, I would suggest you equip it with removeable weather boards. It is easy to do as long as the windows and doors are not curved. That way, you can enjoy the boat and be safe if the weather kicks up.

 

[timb7734]

Flybridge boat

Boat looks very well kept for 30 years old, best advice is to sea trial it extensively, at least is some bad weather, and see if you like the performance. The ride in a power boat generally responds to a few degrees course change as well as a change in speed, a little up or down. My last three power boats had no fly bridge as I hate Isenglas and would only have had it open. My current boat has an open flybridge and in the first 160 hours we have not used it but for about 20 minutes, then went below out of the wind.

 

[thataway]

This is a absolutely gorgeous boat for the era--and would be a fantastic S. Cal. or even PNW boat. I believe it is possible that she would be fine going up and down the coast, if you watch your weather closely. The likely hood of even encountering 20 foot seas is very slim with good weather routing. But bad things do happen, and there are some weakness in this boat which hit me. (I have done 3 Panama Canal transits and 3 trips between Florida and S. Cal.--for the most part they were calm--but saw 50 to 80 knots on several occasions. These trips were in pilot house motorsailers.) Spent 5 summers cruising AK--this boat would be great for that!

Fuel tanks:--critical that you know the conditions and material. Replacing iron tanks in this boat will be a major endeavor.

Range: I am a little more optimistic about the range, but one may have to drop down to 6 to 7 knots. In the same vein, I doubt that you are going to be doing much planing with only 850 total hp. The hull and layout is very similar to the Defever 53 POC (which I believe were cored and lighter) with a cockpit extension (could be original), The displacement is 114,000#!!! You are pushing the 3208 to get 425 hp (NA is 210 hp). There is maintenance of the turbo and after coolers. Do you really want or need this in a long distance cruising boat. How many times are you going to be running at 13 knots and burning 40+ gallons an hour?

Decks:All of the "Teak" decks topside are snap on like carpet. I have just never seen this. What is under those deck covers? I looked for a Defever 49 a few years ago, and every single one had deck problems, that I didn't want to become involved with. Pull every one of those fake teak mats and begin sounding the deck. (at least do samples--may take a patient broker)

Generators: These appear to be original. They are going to require replacing at some point. Not real easy to get to (but I have seen worse). Not in sound shields. What is the dB level in the main saloon, and in the master stateroom? I do like the 8 KW and 20 KW:good combo.

Stabilizers : What size fins? When were they last serviced, and have they been upgraded? How easy to get to the accentuates--it looks tight. What about the re-enforcements in the hull?

Bow and Stern thrusters: Access to motors? Where are the batteries?

Windlass: Is it adequate for the ground tackle you may want? It looks to currently have an undersized CQR. You will want far larger tier 3 anchors (Ronca etc), and I like to have a secondary anchor for the bow, as well as an anchor for the stern, with easy set up for stern anchoring--and at least an electric winch aft. On revisit--it does look like a winch aft, but no fairleads.

Batteries: Six 8D with two 100 amp chargers...Two engine start, one for each bow and stern thruster?? or long cable runs, and from what batteries. That leaves two house--or is it 4 house? Things to look at and see.

Side deck access: Is it an illusion or are the side decks almost non existent?

Galley: most obvious is lack of good refrigeration--for these trips you want at least 12 cu foot freezers and 12 cu foot refers, with eutectic holding plates. (best system for long distance, since it can run off mains, or 110/ from inverter or generator, once or twice a day). Maybe I am missing these in the photos.

Three staterooms: Are you going to have another couple or crew cruising with you. If so, this makes a lot of sense. If only the two, then not so much. It is very nice to have a second couple or crew with you on passages. I find that short over nighters or a two night passage is hard to adjust to, vs a longer passage, where you get in the rhythm, which takes a day or two.

Size of boat: Yes, it is really great to have a large boat...until you have to maintain it. I am not speaking of the bottom paint, but of the daily wipe down the brightwork, redo it. The cleaning of the deck, etc. As we age, all of these things become more difficult.

The flying bridge: The sliding glass patio doors are like guillotines, if they break loose. I would not be so worried about the glass area up there--and lost of cruisers have this amount of glass in the main saloon/pilot house. But the pilot house is like a hot house in the tropics. OK if you get a good breeze or have AC (you can easily put a 15,000 BTU RV air conditioner on the flying bridge (I did this on a boat with an enclosed flying bridge works fine)--but then you are running the generator all of the time.

Also single wiper, non opening windows--what are the curved front side windows made of, and how well willl they hold up--Cleaning? Visibility in rain?

The seating is almost dangerous with that little drop off--why is that even there? Why not one level? What about built in area to lie down. Single helm seat (you would probably upgrade). Area aft which is outlined with raised cleats offsite the life raft?

Dinghy: Vital and probably you will have a good sized RIB. (maybe a second light weight inflatable or hard dinghy). The davit is woefully undersized. There is no cradle or bunks for a good sized inflatable. Consider how easy it is gong to be to upgrade this system. Look at the structure of this deck and see if it will take the extra weight.

I have mixed feelings about the arrangement. Nothing wrong with the galley where it is; nice stairs to the flying bridge, can easily run with a remote added to the Simrad Auto pilot from there if you wish--but then you want a chart plotter, and instruments, plus TV of the engine room etc...

The distance from the flying bridge to the head...again as we age, this seems to be more important. No relief off the stern in this one!! Of course there is the handy urinal...both genders available...

OK I am very suspicious. It appears that this boat may have been on the market for some time. The photos look more like San Diego area, not Newport Beach. The price is low for the condition.

I would spend a couple of extra days when you are down there. Walk the dock after you have seen the boat with the broker. Ask around to see what is the scuttlebutt on this boat. See if you can find out what shipyard was used on her last haul out. Was there much blistering. Any issues noted with the fins, running gear etc.

Beautiful boat. If I was younger, it would be a fantastic boat for coastal cruising especially AK. For the long haul look and think very carefully.

 

[aevdg]

Some other things to think of

One thing also to think about with the high pilothouse is how well you can communicate with whoever is handling the lines. In our first boat - where the steering station was on the same level as the salon - I could sit on the rail right outside the door and direct husband who was docking. We were about 3 feet apart and could have a calm conversation about how he was coming in and where we were in relation to the dock. We have a side tie - so this is important.

We now have a Kadey Krogen 42 - raised pilothouse. He can't even see me when I am handling the lines. This subject came up before on the Forum - and there were lots of suggestions about hand directions - but if the person docking can't see the person handling the lines - and can't hear the person handling the lines - you need communication. We use Eartecs which work perfectly. There is another brand as well.

My husband can't even see how close the boat is to the dock - he usually thinks the boat is a lot closer to the dock than it is and needs me as part of the team to direct him.

Also - think of the length of the boat. Your choice of slips is really limited once you are over about 48 feet. So - for practicality - think of those things as well.

 

[Capt Richard A.]

We just sold our 50' sail boat. We are shopping for our retirement boat. We plan on taking this boat from So.Cal to P.N.W. to Caribbean to Mexico over a period of 10 years. We have decided that we need to buy a boat big enough to live on for at least 10 years. That said we are shopping for 50 -60 foot trawlers.
I have found a boat that checks all the boxes, but the pilothouse in on top where the fly bridge would normally be. This is the only steering station on the boat. Its fully enclosed in glass and fiber glass and very comfortable with a 360 view of the boat. The boat does have full electronic engine controls with a station in the cockpit and a full wireless control with both engines and bow and stern thruste's from anywhere on deck.

Having never driven a boat like this out in the ocean, I just worry this position is two high up on a rough day.The boat is stabilized.


Doug

Hello,
We lived on out trawler, two stations flybridge and down in main cabin.

Very important, for me.

If you pulled yourself up your master sail on the sailboat, for a repair in medium seas, to the height of the new boat it would probably be the same. When we were in heavy seas down below was very welcome.

Best to you.

 

[menzies]

Very beautiful boat, very clean and love the interior and forward galley my wife would love it. ER is clean and immaculate. Buuut and don’t take me wrong, but the body lines didn’t continue to the fly bridge. It looks like a gremlin car glassed over what should have been a pilot house.
Don’t take this negatively, but they should have kept the lines squarer up top to match the none aero dynamics of the rest of the vessel. Kinda like a stealth
Sorry

Yeah, Art really screwed up that design, right?

 

[menzies]

For those that commenting on being potentially isolated from others on the boat socially:

 

[Caballero II]

I'm a little concerned about having a single helm station only. While we drive our trawler from the fly bridge 98% of the time, there are times when it is too rough and we descend to the salon where there is considerably less motion. Your boat is considerably better prepared for easing motion, but what if something in your much more complicated systems fails? I wouldn't be comfortable with so many things to go wrong. I assume you have a captain or hand to help with the boat?

 

[Mako]

Cowboy, clarify what your concern is. Having only one steering station or having a boat that is too complicated?

 

[Fish53]

What it sort boils down to is how and where you use your boat. When I briefly owned an Albin 36 I found for my purposes the flybridge was useless. Unpleasant in the majority of weather I operated in and added weight and complexity that I didn't benefit from. Others of course may have a completely different experience and tolerance. I spent years offshore so I believe my tolerance is fine but that may be the issue as I go out when most aren't willing to do so. We all have differing criteria defining our needs.

 

[Caballero II]

Mako, I think both things make me uncomfortable. As L. Francis said, "simplicity in all things.

 

[Mako]

That’s a good thing to hear Cowboy. You don’t hear power boaters speaking too often about simplicity.

 

[bshillam]

Personally I wouldn't consider a vessel without a lower helm, mainly because I don't want to be stuck up on the fly during long passages. Don't get me wrong, I love being up on the fly but being close to where the action is during the day makes it more fun. Also when the weather gets snotty in the PNW being warm is nice and most FB don't have heat. It's really about being comfortable and everyone getting what they need. If it checks off enough of your boxes and the wife then I'd say take a run at it! Just because it isn't someones top doesn't mean it won't be yours.
Good heat will be important for north of California.

 

[Capt8888]

Do you know the web site for the BC Defever? Thanks

 

[Hornloaded]

Went and looked at the boat today. Amazing how pictures can make a boat look so much better than real live. The interior looks as good as the photos. All the decks are non-skid in need of a replacement. He must have figured the carpet was cheaper.
The generators do concern me. They look original and BIG and heavy!
The engines do look nice, they have defiantly been extensively worked on. He told me the exhaust tubes through the boat to the stern were just replaced because of a buying/survey found one leaking.
The electrical seems a bit of a mess, and all the hose (and there are a lot!) look original and will need to be replaced.
The water tanks are fiberglass, the fuel tanks are metal.
He did show me a stack of invoices totaling easily a $100,000 from over the last several years.

Not sure I like the pilothouse up so High, Ill keep looking at other boats.

 

[Nomad Willy]

My favorite boat (hull more so) s the Willard 36. But the helm is a foot or two lower than I would accept.
There is a W36 model that has a high enough helm station but it is even more extreme in this regard. Way too high. When my W30 is rolling heavily I don't like the lateral forces at all but the W36 would (I'm sure) be far worse.

Many skippers seem fine w the lower helm having limited visibility over the bow. Not me. I apply this dislike to cars too. At times you'll find me sitting on a seat cushion to get my line of sight high enough. I like to see well when I'm inside vehicles looking out.

1st pic as seen very slightly below the WL.
2nd pic as seen very slightly above the WL.
Quite a difference. The visibility is OK to fine as long as I don't have an anchor on the bow or have a Claw on the bow. Most any other anchor and the visibility goes south. But most of the time my go-for anchor is on the foredeck.

 

[OldDan1943]

I am height challenged so I had a folding step created, extending the pilot house step .... problem solved for me.