How does a scam work?

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Maybe... just maybe... The Ahole has a very similar boat for sale. Just wants to get your ad off the market to reduce competition!

Naw... it's a scam!!
 
OK, thanks to all who posted. I see the scam now. I had never realized before that a "cashiers' check" was no longer safe. I had always heard of them being as good as gold. But guess the times they are a-changing.


Bill
 
Kuncicky said:
OK, thanks to all who posted. I see the scam now. I had never realized before that a "cashiers' check" was no longer safe. I had always heard of them being as good as gold. But guess the times they are a-changing.


Bill
Click to expand...

No, just awareness. Scams are not something new. There have been people who made their living running scams for centuries.
 
BandB said:
No, just awareness. Scams are not something new. There have been people who made their living running scams for centuries.
Click to expand...

Bernie Madoff was a BIGGIE!
 
I am a banker. Here's a few tidbits about the reality of it.

Jurisdiction: a lot of different agencies claim it and have teams to work it. Federal, state, and local. Often multiple agencies at each level. They all say "call me first". The reality is that whoever you call, if they have a lot on their desk nothing will happen. Catch them when they have time, or something about the instance gets them juiced up and good things can happen. It all depends on the PERSON not the agency.

20 years ago we caught an employee stealing. The instance occurred in a bank we bought, before we bought it. The employee immediately fessed up. It was 6 figures 20 years ago. We put a file together with every piece of documentation and walked it down to the FBI down the street. It was 18 months until they cracked the file open and acted.

We recently had a customer scammed for 6 figures. Funds were wired out. The money was gone and odds of any good outcome was next to zero. But we worked with the bank on the other end of it and every dollar was recovered. Bank to bank, no agency involved except to report it after the fact. We had good PEOPLE on it, and so did the other bank.

Folks would be shocked but $100k doesn't get any attention with agencies. Less is truly ignored. At least that's our experience.
 
Anyone who wants to pay in advance w/o even seeing is a scammer.

I love Craig's List. And I know how to handle the "junk"

I had a bike for sale. Got a couple "quick" replies. Your price is too high and I could get a later model for the same price.

Neither asked about seeing the product. Both were scammers.

So, I replied back, "If the price is too high don't buy it"

Yeah, a lot of people are just plain garbage. Scammers, thieves and criminals who like to live at your expense.

Anyone who is serious will make an appointment to see the item and we go from there. Anything else is seller beware.
 
I work for a state court and we meet victims of jury duty scams all the time. Or "your grandson needs bail money wired to..." or there's an arrest warrant outstanding for you, etc. One lady about a month ago came to court to show me $1800 in Walmart cash card transaction receipts so we wouldn't come to arrest her for missing jury duty by accident. Felt just terrible for her. There was even a scam call that asked me to hand-deliver cash cards, said he was a police officer - called my office number at court, ha! So I called the police department, we lined up a "drop" but the scammer never showed up. We send all these people to the police or sheriff to file reports but as far as I know, nothing has ever been done and no one has ever been charged. They could be anywhere on earth, too hard and time-consuming to track down - and even if a local police department did identify somebody in an internet cafe' in Morocco, then what? Just as other posters have said, in my experience nothing is ever done.
 
FWT said:
Folks would be shocked but $100k doesn't get any attention with agencies. Less is truly ignored. At least that's our experience.
Click to expand...

Often banks and corporations don't pursue either. They don't want the embarrassment. I've seen a company where the secretary of CEO embezzled six figures and they just allowed her to quietly resign. CEO (also majority shareholder) replaced the funds. Hers was simple scam, just process her Amex with his. She even bought a Lexus on hers.
 
This behavior has been around forever, it's just that the internet allows the scammers to reach more people. Even if only 1 in 1000 pays off, you can easily send 5000 emails a day. 25 years ago you had to either send something by mail, but that would require you being in the US, you can only mail so many letters per day, and automatically be a federal crime. you could call people, but again, your contacts per day is limited, and the possibility of call tracing was a risk. With the internet you can be anywhere and have thousands of contacts per day. With the increased volume, more ridiculous scams became profitable. The internet is an amazing resource and tool, but it is not without its downside.
 
BandB said:
Often banks and corporations don't pursue either. They don't want the embarrassment. I've seen a company where the secretary of CEO embezzled six figures and they just allowed her to quietly resign. CEO (also majority shareholder) replaced the funds. Hers was simple scam, just process her Amex with his. She even bought a Lexus on hers.
Click to expand...

Embarrassment can be the least of it.

I know a guy who caught his long time book keeper stealing. A most trusted employee. He fired her and reported her. More than $400k if memory serves. So suddenly he has IRS problems with unreported income (the income that she stole) and penalties for the non-payment of that. IRS slapped tax liens on every asset he had. They would not give him a clean figure he owed. It went on for several years, with the only IRS response to "how much do I owe", was "more". Seriously. CPA's and lawyers involved to no avail. It took years to get to the end of the saga.

So when a doc I know had his book keeper get him for $75k, he just let her go for that reason. Then the replacement person stung him too. He gave up his practice and went to work for someone else.

Edited to add: so the doc's first thief book keeper who he fired, next went to a large local non-profit to do their books. I knew the non-profit well and warned the CEO of it. He just looked at me blankly and said he trusted her and she seemed fine to him. So she stung them too and not long afterward the Board booted the CEO.
 
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My phone is set up to simply not accept shaky calls. On computer I send to junk each questionable email. After I "Junk" a scammer their next email automatically hit junk, I never need to even see their email heading.

When a BSer does get through on my phone I either simply hang up or if time exists and I feel like it I "F" with their brain for a while... in one way or another. That can be fun. Often they get so frustrated with me that they yell a cuss word or two as they hang up! I love to piss off a phone scammer!!
 
Most of our scammers have worked out how to avoid wasting valuable scam time. First approach is a robo call,if you press a key they request, I think you get a real scam person, I never tried it. So the landline goes to message, scammers won`t bother, real people will message you. Now the mobile/cell is getting it too. Don`t recognize the caller, don`t answer. What a world!
 
My short story. Placed our Corvette sailboat on Boats for Sale the fall of 2019. We are in Hamilton ON. Got a response from Vancouver. Couple of emails knew it was either a scam or they had no idea what they were doing. The boat was on the hard for winter storage. I stopped answering the emails. He called me on the phone, said he was serious and asked how he could prove it. I told he he would have to pay for my winter storage. He e-transfered $1500.
Two or three emails over the next 3 months. Final payment due April 30.
Told him I needed full name and address and the names and addresses of any joint owners. All needed information to prepare for transfer of ownership upon payment. That was on April 15.
All contact ceased!
My view - it was a scam that backfired.
Upside - winter storage was paid for & I sold the boat for asking price 3 weeks later.
 
My goodness! So many scams. Just makes a person kind of leery. For example, just to show what I mean, I received the following email. Sure sounds appealing, but I dunno . . . (smile)


********



Greeting my dear

I am Mrs. Josan Nowak, I am 85 years old and I am writing to inform
you of my intention to donate ($3.5 million) to charity in your
country. I married Mr. Wilson Nowak, who was a contractor for the
Government of our country before he died after a few days in the
hospital. I have been suffering from cancer. I want to know if I can
trust that you will use funds to help the motherless charity /
orphanage.

The Bible is for us to understand that blessed is the hand that gives.
I took this decision because I do not have any child that will inherit
this money and my husband's relatives are not Christians and I do not
want my husband's efforts to be used by unbelievers. I do not want a
situation where this money will be used in an ungodly manner. That's
why I'm taking this decision. I'm not afraid of death, so I know where
I'm going. I know that I'm going to be in the bosom of man. Exodus 14
vs 14 says that the lord will fight my case and I hold my peace.

Please contact me for further details with your information as indicated below.

Your full name...................
Address.............................
Years..............................
Occupation........................
Country.............................
You are photos ......................

You are sister in christ
Mrs. Josan Nowak
 
Leo Reise said:
My short story. Placed our Corvette sailboat on Boats for Sale the fall of 2019. We are in Hamilton ON. Got a response from Vancouver. Couple of emails knew it was either a scam or they had no idea what they were doing. The boat was on the hard for winter storage. I stopped answering the emails. He called me on the phone, said he was serious and asked how he could prove it. I told he he would have to pay for my winter storage. He e-transfered $1500.
Two or three emails over the next 3 months. Final payment due April 30.
Told him I needed full name and address and the names and addresses of any joint owners. All needed information to prepare for transfer of ownership upon payment. That was on April 15.
All contact ceased!
My view - it was a scam that backfired.
Upside - winter storage was paid for & I sold the boat for asking price 3 weeks later.
Click to expand...


Could have been scam that backfired, but sounds more like buyer who changed mind.
 
BandB said:
Could have been scam that backfired, but sounds more like buyer who changed mind.
Click to expand...
If that were the case, it seems a bit odd that he didn't communicate at least enough to attempt to recover some of his $1500...
 
Kuncicky said:
My goodness! So many scams. Just makes a person kind of leery. For example, just to show what I mean, I received the following email. Sure sounds appealing, but I dunno . . . (smile)


********



Greeting my dear

I am Mrs. Josan Nowak, I am 85 years old and I am writing to inform
you of my intention to donate ($3.5 million) to charity in your
country. I married Mr. Wilson Nowak, who was a contractor for the
Government of our country before he died after a few days in the
hospital. I have been suffering from cancer. I want to know if I can
trust that you will use funds to help the motherless charity /
orphanage.

The Bible is for us to understand that blessed is the hand that gives.
I took this decision because I do not have any child that will inherit
this money and my husband's relatives are not Christians and I do not
want my husband's efforts to be used by unbelievers. I do not want a
situation where this money will be used in an ungodly manner. That's
why I'm taking this decision. I'm not afraid of death, so I know where
I'm going. I know that I'm going to be in the bosom of man. Exodus 14
vs 14 says that the lord will fight my case and I hold my peace.

Please contact me for further details with your information as indicated below.

Your full name...................
Address.............................
Years..............................
Occupation........................
Country.............................
You are photos ......................

You are sister in christ
Mrs. Josan Nowak
Click to expand...

The errors in grammar are an easy giveaway for most scammers.
 
Art said:
When a BSer does get through on my phone I either simply hang up or if time exists and I feel like it I "F" with their brain for a while... in one way or another. That can be fun. Often they get so frustrated with me that they yell a cuss word or two as they hang up! I love to piss off a phone scammer!!
Click to expand...

Post #25 is my favorite example of that!
 
iu
 
So with Craig’s List, there are listed off the home page lots of safety tips for sniffing out scams.
Second, you can FLAG posts that you find to be scams. I have flagged lots of them. It takes awhile but eventually they come down
 
You can't even trust banks anymore. In 2017 I was voted onto our marina's board of directors. I went with the treasurer to the bank to get added to the account so I could sign checks. I gave the lady all my information, SS number, drivers' license number, address, etc. I signed checks for the next two years. Our treasurer passed away and I took our new treasurer to the bank to get him signed up. Saw the same lady that I saw two years ago. She tells me I am not a signer on the account and can't find my name or information anywhere. I asked her who was verifying the name on the checks that I have been signing. She said they don't even look at the checks anymore. I go through the same process, along with our new treasurer, and get put on the account. Another two years pass and I, along with our treasurer and a new board member, go to the bank to get the new member signed up. The same lady tells the treasurer and me that we are not on the account. I found the manager and asked her where all our information had gone. She couldn't answer. We found a bank with better security and moved our half million dollar account.
 
No legal downside for fraudsters

My son worked in the fraud detection/mitigation department of a nationwide retailer. He told me of the many ways it happens but, the most memorable thing he told me is that there is no legal downside for those who commit the crimes. The companies don't prosecute. They will shut down a credit line or put a credit card on a watchlist so it can't be used again but, all losses are just written off and law enforcement is not brought into the process at all. So, you and I get to pay for it all as a cost of them doing business. It's like a corporate tax.
 
jbloyd said:
My son worked in the fraud detection/mitigation department of a nationwide retailer. He told me of the many ways it happens but, the most memorable thing he told me is that there is no legal downside for those who commit the crimes. The companies don't prosecute. They will shut down a credit line or put a credit card on a watchlist so it can't be used again but, all losses are just written off and law enforcement is not brought into the process at all. So, you and I get to pay for it all as a cost of them doing business. It's like a corporate tax.
Click to expand...

I once had an attempted identity theft, by a housekeeper. She got 9 credit cards and went wild, all retail store cards. Then she went to purchase a very large double wide mobile home and got approved. At the last minute, the someone with the Mobile Home company just decided to call my employer who immediately was suspicious.

At that time there was no law against identity theft in NC. Didn't come in until 2005. She didn't actually get the mobile home so nothing major there. However, 9 felonies. 9 retailers all refused to prosecute as they felt by working with her, they might collect a little and with her in prison they wouldn't.

In my previous business life I had one fraud case. We went all in, but without consulting us, the authorities plea bargained our case away. Just convicted on one of three active cases.

Then there are the criminal rings such as drug sellers and shoplifting rings, that us all underaged kids for the dirty work because they'll just get a slap on the wrist and won't get flipped.

Shoplifting is huge and we spend a lot to prevent it. I don't know of anyone who prosecutes it though. First, you're not going to get any punishment. Second, if it's kids, you hate giving them a record over a few dollars. Oh, and they're told not to return. I knew one young woman who was arrested three times for shoplifting in Dillard's, and got two charges of trespassing by returning. I admit though to still having no answer. I will go hard after fraud, but not after shoplifters.
 
I'm with the poster. How can the scammers make this work? If they send a check for the price, or for more than the price, and the poster deposits same in his bank and the check clears how does this amount to a scam?

I did a similar deal on a boat I listed on the Boat FSBO (For Sale by Owner) web site. I got three all cash offers within a week or so. I prepared USCG notarized docs and sent copies to my first-choice buyer after he agreed to wire two checks for total the purchase price to my bank. One of his banks was in New Jersey and the other was in Puerto Rico where is charter operation was located. I agreed to FEDEX him the original USCG docs after the wire transfers were received and cleared at my bank. NO AGENTS NO ESCROW, NO PROBLEM. Nice to know that there are still gentlemen who keep their word.
 
We've received variations of this scam triggered by our ad on Boat Trader. We contacted Michigan State Police on the first couple, but there was no interest in following up. Since then, we just ignore them.
 
My turn. I received this PM today in response to an Ad I placed in Boats Wanted.

"Hello mr friz porta bote available for sell .in very good condition looking perfect no damages or leakage pm me for more details.Suzan.tommy@gmail.com"
 
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