How to find the broker actually listing the trawler

[Hammer]

Hello all,

So I am looking to buy a trawler. I search the Internet, find an interesting candidate ... but the boat shows up in about a dozen brokerages all with contact us, send email, call now etc.

So I reach out to one of the listings thinking it is the actual broker listing the boat. But instead I am talking to someone who is very nice, but knows next to nothing about the boat or the reasons behind the people selling it.

My question is, how on the Internet with all these listings do you identify who the actual listing broker is. At this point, I am not interested in having a third party involved.

Is there a trick to it. It's very annoying now and a great waste of time.

Any info most welcome.

 

[John R M]

I haven't tried it myself but perhaps the listing brokers have their own websites, only the real listing broker should have it on their site.

 

[Russell Clifton]

I think this is what may be happening. When the boat is first listed, the broker will stipulate in the contract that they have a exclusive for a stated length of time, let's say 90 days. After that it is no longer exclusive and the owner is free to list it with as many additional brokers as he want's to.

Probably if you were to hire a buyers broker to help you, they will know how to contact the right people . Remember, the seller is paying your brokers commission, not you.

 

[O C Diver]

Might start with asking one of the brokers where the boat is located as you want to go see it. It may be at the listing broker's associated marina.

Ted

 

[STB]

Is it listed on YachtWorld? If so, the listing there should be from the seller's brokerage.

 

[DavidM]

Is it listed on YachtWorld? If so, the listing there should be from the seller's brokerage.

Yes, at the bottom of the Yachtworld listing will be the listing broker's contact information. Sometimes two brokers will list the same boat on Yachtworld. That usually means that one has lost the listing and hasn't removed it so you have to ask. But this happens very rarely.



David

 

[JohnEasley]

There are a few companies (I'm not going to name names) that scan listings and pull them into their own sites. When you contact them, they're not the selling broker, they become the buyer's broker. A couple of brokers are close friends of mine and they swear and spit whenever a broker from one of these companies contacts them. Just echoing what others in the business have reported to me.

 

[oscar]

LEGALLY speaking there are no "Buyers Brokers" in the marine world. There are in the real estate world, in most states, and their fiduciary obligations are spelled out in the applicable state regulations.

In the boating business Not all states require a brokers license, when they do ALL licensed brokers have fiduciary obligation to the SELLER. In other states the courts will generally find the same thing.

Be VERY VERY careful with people telling you they are a "buyers broker". They represent the seller, by regulation or de facto, if they get paid out of sales proceeds, IOW the seller pays them.

There ARE people that will, for a fee paid by YOU, act as buying consultants. They do NOT get paid out of proceeds of the sale and therefore can have a fiduciary obligation to YOU. None of that is regulated. A difficult path to walk if it ends up in the courts. If you go this route make sure that you get a contract and read it, very carefully.

Yes, most deals work out just fine and everyone is, mostly, happy. But IF it goes South, and you are out your $$ it hurts, a lot.

Caveat Emptor.

As to the OP's question..... unlike real estate boat listings are not always exclusive (which does not exclude option for co-brokerage with another broker). The seller may have thrown it out there for anyone, or as said above some may advertise it by themselves and then do a co-broker deal if you bite. (They are NOT buyers brokers no matter what they call themselves) The best thing to do is ask the broker if they have an exclusive listing. If no one says "yes" there probably isn't one.

And yes, Yachtworld listings should be by a listing broker.

 

[Solly]

" But instead I am talking to someone who is very nice, but knows next to nothing about the boat or the reasons behind the people selling it. "

In my very limited experience ( 1 time ) with a broker I thought this applied to all ???? More like a used car salesman. Happy to sell you something if you buy it....

I'm sure that's not true of all so good luck !!

 

[Russell Clifton]

It gets even more interesting when the different brokerages list the same boat at different prices. Or better yet, when one brokerage will list the same boat twice at different prices. There is currently a 49 Defever on Yacht World where this is happening.

If you could find out where the boat is located, look for a sale sign on it. I don't believe I have ever seen two different company's signs on a boat.

 

[tiltrider1]

Oscar might be right for PA. He is however wrong when it comes to WA.

There are a lot of reasons why you might see double listings of the same boat. When I see this, my guard goes up. It’s a sure sign something is not normal, does not necessarily mean something is wrong.

 

[BandB]

There are most definitely buyer's brokers who have different contracts they use that make their obligation to represent you even though they share commissions with seller's brokers. It also compels them to tell you up front if they're about to show you a boat on which they are also the seller's broker. And, it compels you to work through them. They then clearly identify themselves to the seller's broker as representing you.

This is no different than buyer's broker in real estate. The commission is still paid by the seller and shared. Just real estate brokers are regulated and most boat brokers are not and those who are, it's very little regulations.

 

[Hammer]

Is it listed on YachtWorld? If so, the listing there should be from the seller's brokerage.

Thank you! I did not know this about yachtworld. That the listing broker is identified. That will be a big help.

 

[Hammer]

I think this is what may be happening. When the boat is first listed, the broker will stipulate in the contract that they have a exclusive for a stated length of time, let's say 90 days. After that it is no longer exclusive and the owner is free to list it with as many additional brokers as he want's to.

Probably if you were to hire a buyers broker to help you, they will know how to contact the right people . Remember, the seller is paying your brokers commission, not you.

Actually having a second broker involved always has a cost to the buyer. The listing broker may not be in a mood to negotiate as aggressively. In addition, when I sold my house, if there was only one agent, the commission was three percent. Two agents, the commission went to four percent. May be the same in some broker contracts.

In any event, I am not interested in having a second broker involved at this time. Just does not seem necessary.

 

[Kapn]

Discussed this with a broker friend recently.
Yachtworld is a business, they want to sell their service to brokers. A broker lists a boat with a customer and puts it up on YW. Pretty simple so far. The broker has to say if it’s available for co-brokerage or to be sold just in house.
Then YW sells a service to brokers that muddies the waters. Essentially they can pay extra to YW to have outside listings that are co-brokerage appear on their home pages and look as if they have the boat listed. Somewhere on the page there is fine print that says it may or may not be listed by the company who’s name and logo are plastered all over it. That’s where so much confusion comes about, essentially from an accounting genius at YW that found a way to allow the highest bidders to look like a listing agent.
So why would a listing broker invite others to ‘share’ his listing when he knows about the boat, can answer questions and be the best broker to get it sold based on knowledge?
The kicker is that as an advertiser on YW, they are required to list 75% of their boats as available for co-brokerage.

 

[BandB]

Discussed this with a broker friend recently.
Yachtworld is a business, they want to sell their service to brokers. A broker lists a boat with a customer and puts it up on YW. Pretty simple so far. The broker has to say if it’s available for co-brokerage or to be sold just in house.
Then YW sells a service to brokers that muddies the waters. Essentially they can pay extra to YW to have outside listings that are co-brokerage appear on their home pages and look as if they have the boat listed. Somewhere on the page there is fine print that says it may or may not be listed by the company who’s name and logo are plastered all over it. That’s where so much confusion comes about, essentially from an accounting genius at YW that found a way to allow the highest bidders to look like a listing agent.
So why would a listing broker invite others to ‘share’ his listing when he knows about the boat, can answer questions and be the best broker to get it sold based on knowledge?
The kicker is that as an advertiser on YW, they are required to list 75% of their boats as available for co-brokerage.

MLS does the same thing.

 

[STB]

Take a look at any YW listing. The listing broker is shown. No service sold by obscures this.

As someone has said, sellers or brokers can do unfortunate things, but that is a different type of concern.

 

[oscar]

Just real estate brokers are regulated and most boat brokers are not and those who are, it's very little regulations.

Which gives you, as the buyer, little or no recourse when your interest is not represented properly.

That was my point all along. Be careful.

 

[BandB]

Which gives you, as the buyer, little or no recourse when your interest is not represented properly.

That was my point all along. Be careful.

No, nor the seller. Only recourse is the court system and civil suits. That's why selection of who to work with is even more critical.

 

[BruceK]

I`ve seen adverts here where a broker identifies they are the "central listing broker", meaning I guess others are not. I`ve seen adverts where the broker is interstate from the boat and may have a "sub list" of the boat from the listing broker to better cover another region for a boat that is the type they often list. And there are boats where a seller grants more than one listing.
If a broker, without permission of the listing broker, picks up and repeats an advert for a boat they have no right to show as listed by them, because it has not been listed with them, that`s fraudulent misrepresentation. I would not want to deal with them.

 

[Hammer]

MLS does the same thing.

Wow... what a mess for a buyer to slog through. Apparently the only solution to be sure is to ask the responding broker, “are you the listing broker” and if they say “no,” well thank them and move on.

 

[BandB]

Wow... what a mess for a buyer to slog through. Apparently the only solution to be sure is to ask the responding broker, “are you the listing broker” and if they say “no,” well thank them and move on.

The listing broker is shown. However, all are really set up for you to be using a "buyer's broker." Most people buying real estate have traditionally started with a realtor. Now there are "realtors" providing bypasses where you do much of it yourself and save. They're more home showers than realtors in nature. New approaches are developing. The industry is changing and perhaps boats will too. However, all these changes have both positives and negatives attached.

 

[Rich wilmer]

I use my own broker he finds the listing broker we go see it he does the negotiating he and the other broker split the fee and I get the best agreed upon deal never use the sellers broker his best interest lie with the seller

 

[oscar]

I use my own broker he finds the listing broker we go see it he does the negotiating he and the other broker split the fee and I get the best agreed upon deal never use the sellers broker his best interest lie with the seller

So does yours in the eye of the courts. If he is paid out sellers proceeds he has fiduciary obligation to the seller. Not sure why that is so hard to understand.

 

[STB]

So does yours in the eye of the courts. If he is paid out sellers proceeds he has fiduciary obligation to the seller. Not sure why that is so hard to understand.

It is hard to understand because it is not necessarily correct. The buyer's licensed salesperson and employing brokerage and broker(s) have whatever duties and responsibilities are spelled out in the representation agreement, the applicable law, and any executed sales agreement. In my experience, except when representing both sides, this does not include any responsibility to place the seller's interest above the buyer's.

My general concern is both sides placing their own interest -- getting paid a commission -- above either party, e.g. counseling a seller to go lower, or prefer a buyer who they represent on both sides, or a buyer to use a go-along surveyor or offer more or buy now.

 

[oscar]

My general concern is both sides placing their own interest -- getting paid a commission -- above either party, e.g. counseling a seller to go lower, or prefer a buyer who they represent on both sides, or a buyer to use a go-along surveyor or offer more or buy now.

Absolutely a concern, and I bet it happens more often than not. Main reason I represent myself, with council reviewing anything I sign. (A least with an attorney you have a half a shot at being properly represented.)

 

[BandB]

So does yours in the eye of the courts. If he is paid out sellers proceeds he has fiduciary obligation to the seller. Not sure why that is so hard to understand.

Because it's not true if you have an agreement with him as a buyer's broker. Yes, there are such legal agreements and where the money that goes to him comes from is irrelevant. Just like buyer's brokers on home shopping. If you don't have such an agreement, then you're correct.