backinblue
Guru
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2019
- Messages
- 3,938
- Location
- USA
- Vessel Name
- Blue Moon
- Vessel Make
- Mainship Pilot 355
Hang in there. It will get worse and better. LOL
likely both!
Hang in there. It will get worse and better. LOL
First of all I apologize to BandB about slow recounting of our story of buying a new boat.
I sympathize with the feeling being annoyed about having to wait for cliffhangers.
I was never much a fan of TV show Dallas and that cliffhanger of "who shot JR?" thing, either.
Alas, although I am retired, I am having what I say is an active retirement. That means everyday there are multiple different agendas competing for my time. Moreover, currently,
I am in the process of sale of our primary home and also moving to a different continent for a period of 2 years before we return back to USA permanently (for my wife work).
But, I shall try to speed up and conclude this thread in two or three more installments, each written up daily, hopefully!
When we started the process we were open to buying a used boat as well as a new boat. I understand the logic behind buying a slightly used boat. fast depreciation in early years, all the kinks worked out and some are well maintained and are mainly "distress" sale i.e. due to changed circumstances or changed interest levels. so, we kept an open mind on it almost till the end of the process.
The first call we had to make in order to narrow our field of choices was to list what was important to us. After talking to few friends and doing a lot of internet research, it appeared that how we planned to cruise and favorite cruising grounds were important factors.
We decided that we are looking to cruise mostly coastal - first year for east coast of USA from Maine to Bahamas. Later years look to do Caribbean islands. I more than my wife is interested in curing meds in Europe for couple of years. She would rather stay closer to USA and take a boat through Panama Canal and take over boat to west coast to seattle and to Alaska. So, what does that leave out? We are not that keen on taking the boat across oceans - Pacific or Atlantic. Seems like either you have too much of exciting trip or a too many dull boring days crossing oceans - not something we desired. Same way, we are hardy but in a way lazy cruisers. More likely to do 4-5 days overnight trips but no longer. Globe circumnavigation is not in our future. In few years, we will probably be back on land with permanent home in Bay Area and boat being used three four months a year to live one in PNW area.
Given that type of cruising parameters, we embarked on deciding which style of boat and what length works best for us. If we were younger or using this boat to entertain friends, our choice could be different but currently we thought that full displacement fits us best. At 60's retired couple, we are unlikely to get somewhere in hurry. and, we value the extra sense of motoring comfort and stability we get in full displacement boat, even though its ocean crossing ability was not a major draw for us.
We visited several boat shows, devoured Internet (and this website - mostly by my wife) to get educated about several vendors, boat styles and then narrowed our choice to Kadey-Krogen, Nordhavn, Fleming and Selene. I realize that I have already offended many veterans on this forum by excluding their favorite brand of boats and vendors from this short list. Perhaps that was due to our ignorance and inexperience. But, I think any such list is likely to be more of personality driven.
What was and is important to us as we head in to cruising lifestyle?
Living comfort was topmost as we are as likely to be cruising as to be stationary perhaps even more hours at anchor than motoring. Our kids are not in to sailing or motoring so we don't quite expect to have many visitors on our boats for long periods. And, they will be so busy with their careers anyway for next seven years.
Manuverability was also very important since we are new to boating - having thrusters, stabilizers etc a must. But, also, this is going to be our home and thus not quite ready to have crew on it. so, the boat has to be comfortable for two and manuverable (without panic attacks) by two. We are both in good health so did not place that much emphasis on not having stairs within the boat. We did see a boat (I think it was N80) where there was hydraulic elevator built in to take one person from bedroom area to saloon and to flybridge. The boat was too big for us and somehow that much money did not seem like good value. We may though regret not paying much attention to this aspect as we keep aging.
In any case, our plans is to buy a boat, keep it for 6-7 years and then sale it. (If my wife permits, big if, I might even buy a day sailor - I agree with the person who said that sailboats are most fun in long voyages and couple of days trips but not for live-aboard lifestyle).
One factor we kept loose was how much we spend for a boat. The sailboat we bought 14 years ago was used and did not cost that much. Over the years, I always regretted not upgrading it to very nice 60 foot sailboat that we saw on the market in 2014. We did not buy because I felt that its price of 700K plus was too much to pay for one or two months of sailing every year. That was really a great sailboat but can not rewind to past. now, things are different.
Meanwhile, our financial situation has changed, making it feasible to think in bigger numbers. We started with a target budget of low 2 mils that was not very firm and ultimately, we ended up thinking even bigger than our initial figure. I will detail some thinking on that in my next post.
The considerations above drove our choice of boat length. We saw many 40's and concluded that we need minimum 50' to live comfortably full time on a boat. and, anything above 60' seemed like a stretch for handling by two people. so, 50-60 became our range.
With these choices made, we started intensively to look at various models from these vendors on our short list. In my next post - which I expect to become a bit more of emotions from various readers, I shall talk about which one we finally chose to go with.
BTW: I do not mind any criticism or adverse comments about our process. It is a part of belonging to such a forum, Besides, I find such comments interesting to read, because it sometimes adds to my knowledge base. And it helps that I have a rather thick skin, developed while being an entrepreneur / founder of internet companies in my past life!!
And I did have to google to find out who did shoot JR. Of course it was a minor character.
Hey! No spoilers!
Great thread, thanks for starting it. My guess is a Fleming 55!
============================I presently have three boats in different geographical locations: two Willard trawlers (30 and 40ft) and a light weight 34ft sailboat. I have owned a boat for the past 63 years. My take is the following and it meshes with your conclusions.
Sailboats are best for two things: day sailing and crossing an ocean. There is little aesthetic enjoyment from an afternoon motoring and most trawlers cannot cross oceans safely. However for cruising, the trawler is much superior for the reasons you and others have expressed.
Two suggestions. If you are already close to 70 and wish to enjoy your trawler for many years: 1. Do not buy a boat with stairs. The sedan style comes closest to this. 2. Be sure that access to the engine room does not involve crawling or excessive bending.
Good luck in your adventure.
Richard P
I will read and comment / reply for sometime in this thread but further new threads will move to Kadey Krogen forums or some other forums. Still getting used to how to navigate TF comfortably and in useful way.
One final note about single engine versus twin engine. We definitely wanted twin engine because of draft being lower. Important if you are to spend time in Caribbean islands.
I only buy new boats but will also freely admit they're unwise financially. Still I do it.
Just don't lead yourself to believe that finances led to your boat choice. No, your study did, followed by you falling in love with a new model and deciding it was the one. Nothing at all wrong with that.
Actually, that’s what I was saying about Financial calculations.Financial analysis can certainly be part of a boat-buying decision without any illusion of making a profit. Often the goal with boats is to lessen (or at least consider) the overall cost to own from start to finish. Lowering the cost of ownership can be just as valuable as making a profit on another purchase or activity in the effect it has on overall finances.
I’m a finance guy to the bone, and also a big believer that often the most cost-effective purchase is often one that requires a higher initial purchase price for a higher quality product with lower maintenance cost and higher resale than the other choices. Seems to me that’s what the OP has in mind when he say financial decision.
Actually, i was ok with one engine like nordhavn has and some KK boats too have that option. That factor did not bother me much.Interesting and wouldn't exactly agree to drawing the same conclusion based on this one limitation/requirement. There are a lot of consequences upon choosing twin (positive and negative both), although it sounds like KK did not offer a single option anyway.
Is this really the only reason for this decision, and how much draft did you save?
KK 50 Open design has better visibility from pilothouse than Nordhavn or so it seemed.Thanks for the great write-up! I enjoyed your thought process and whie I would have chosen differently, this all works for you. I will say don't think twice about catamarans. I've watched the youtube videos of the guy rehabbing a big catamaran and I would personally shy away from them until there are clear demonstrations of good engineering of the entire boat. The twisting pressures exert a lot of force on the lateral connections and they don't seem terribly well-built...
Buying the first hull built is a choice that I wouldn't have made, but there are pros and cons and you've made your choice. Boating on the Puget Sound one piece of advice I would offer to anyone looking at a pilothouse boat, run the boat at your preferred speed and make sure that running from the pilothouse is comfortable. I have been on a lot of boats that "squat down" when under way and the pilot house position is virtually unusable from a visibility perspective.