Hull modifications....See it to Believe it

[Northern Spy]

Brewer Deep River Marina continued ongoing restoration work on an Island Gypsy 32. “Last year we extended the boat’s cockpit and added a bulbous bow to increase boat speed,” says General Manager, Jim Brown. “These alterations turned a 10 knot trawler into an 11 to 13 knot trawler at cruising speed. This year we added a prop nozzle to further increase the engine’s efficiency.”

 

[healhustler]

Hustler has plenty of imagination.

I resemble that remark!

 

[AusCan]

I'm thinking the guy just took up fibreglassing as a hobby, and really enjoyed it, so he just thought up a new project every year.

"Hmmm - I could probably fit a winged keel on there somewhere"

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

Is it me , or does anybody else think that the Palmer Johnson "fleet" looks like robots ready to attack?
"just 'cause your paranoid, doesn't mean nobody's after you"

 

[Baker]

It could have been the same outfit that did this rare Krogen Mana-Cat.

Dude!!!!! That is some of the funniest **** I have ever seen!!!! The funnier part is.....it looks like it would actually work!!! Patent it before the Krogens steal it!!!

 

[Codger2]

Making it mine is much more important to me than keeping it original or keeping the resale value at maximum.

Couldn't disagree more!

 

[Nomad Willy]

I picked up on that one right away as the bow of the Manatee was not in the center between the two hulls.

Walt it's a good thing you underlined DISagree as you like to say agree. Does that make you agreeable???
I don't know why but I have that pic in your avatar.

 

[Underway]

Is it me , or does anybody else think that the Palmer Johnson "fleet" looks like robots ready to attack?
"just 'cause your paranoid, doesn't mean nobody's after you"

Yes, or Capt Nimo's Nautalis. Love them or hate them, the PJ designs are always cutting edge. We boat in the Sturgeon Bay area, and it is a jaw dropping experience to see any of the recent PJ sport yachts bearing down on you at 30 knots. By the way, if you look at the drawings of the bow of the Super Sport in the link or the photo below....the shape of the bulbous underwater section is not unlike the one on the subject 32' IG. (Still looks like a photoshop to me).

Palmer Johnson

 

[Nomad Willy]

I'm closer to the "hate'um" category.

Skid do you actually like these things?

They look "bitch'in", "tough" and perhaps cool but they are a maze of arched lines weaving back and forth or up and down w splotches of dark masses in-between that resemble nothing in particular so lots of people won't even know it's a boat.

Perhaps they are hot rod boats styled after a flame job paint scheme. Things that have been styled to such a degree that they aren't even what they presume to be.

Nuts.

 

[brian eiland]

Dave Gerr's Shoal Draft Tunnel Hulls

Oppon more reflection I'm think'in this may be an attempt to turn his boat into a Shannon 38 SRD. Shannon made mostly sailboats but ventured into the powerboat field w their SRD hull. SRD stands for Shannon Reverse Deadrise. I really like the SRD. I'm probably not correct because if I am this is a very bad attempt to emulate the SRD.

http://http://www.shannonyachts.com/shannon_srd_technology.html

Here you can see the concept. Brilliant I think. The fwd sections are almost pure sailboat and the aft sections are much like a powerboat. However most all powerboats (except the Hickman Sea Sled) have flat bottoms or bottoms w some to considerable deadrise. The SRD has reverse deadrise aft. Very unusual but it delivers a hull w a great deal of the characteristics of a full disp hull but w the ability to run 20 knots and quite efficiently as well. I think the SRD hull is truly amazing and I remember showing Walt (Seahouse) this boat 6 or so years ago.

Anyway the resemblance is there but .........................

I was also reminded of Dave Geer's work in this arena, In fact Passagemaker mag just had an article on his 'special bottomed vessels in their May/June 2013 issue.


Here is another reference I found

Shoal Draft Boat - Knots and Boats

Sometimes all it takes to change the game are a few fans to speak up and say, 'hey, there is something great going on here.'

In last month's PassageMaker Magazine, Paul and Linda Bremer along with designer Dave Gerr recapped the success of Gerr's shoal draft boat - a 42' tunnel drive trawler that draws only 22". Yes, that's twenty-two inches. Officially, it's called a "Summer Kyle" design; an Ultrashoal Tunnel-Drive Motorcruiser. And, in case you were wondering, that's exactly the regal title it deserves.

Also here:
Help With Economical Semi-Planing Designs - Page 18 - Boat Design Forums

 

[brian eiland]

Patented

I believe the Shannon SRD hull tecnology claims to be patented. I wonder how that equates with the Gerr hull shape??

 

[brian eiland]

....from posting #265 on that other forum discussion
Help With Economical Semi-Planing Designs - Page 18 - Boat Design Forums

ALowell, I don't see how you can question the utility of the tunnel-stern Seabright design when it offers more features than your current boat -- the first of which is shallow draft -- a feature that perhaps others find more useful or appealing than you do.

Another very practical feature is the boat's ability to be beached almost anywhere there is a beach.

Another feature is its ability to sit upright on its flat bottom box keel when on the beach or on a tidal flat, or even on a cheap flatbed trailer.

Another is its excellent fuel efficiency which is very hard to match in almost all other planing power boats because of the way the tunnel-stern Seabright design re-uses the energy trapped in the accelerated boundary layer water. There are other threads that explore this unique phenomenon if you are interested.

Your lobster boat may be a great boat, and it may actually be a better boat for you than a tunnel-stern Seabright skiffs. But shallow draft is very important to many people, and so is fuel efficiency. For these two reasons alone I think many people will prefer the tunnel-stern Seabrights.

Unlike you, I never worry about how difficult the boat might be to build either. Instead I prefer to focus on the features I want from a boat, then do whatever it takes to build that boat, even if it requires more effort or takes more time during construction. Then I will end up with the boat I really want, rather than something that only comes close.

 

[CPseudonym]

I know absolutely nil about hull or boat design Brian but as unique as it may be below the waterline I really like what is above the waterline.

 

[AussieCraig]

Either someone is really clever...or not....remember Ben Lexcen....

 

[psneeld]

The problem with radical new bottom designs is that often they are not new...people have been toying with ideas for decades if not centuries and it's hard to believe that all of a sudden...there's a new, practical and workable idea.

You don't think the Navies and Coats Guards of the world haven't been pushing for stuff like this for years?

Just because there's a computer drawing of a new design out there doesn't mean it's all that "workable".

Penn Yan had an old tunnel drive that went into shallow water very well from what I could tell but I also heard it handled very poorly, wasn't economical compared to others in it's class, etc..etc and that boat made it well into the production phase.

 

[slowandsteady]

All that work, they could have at least cut a transom door in the cockpit. Is that so difficult?

 

[RickB]

I'll second that. Shoal draft tugs have been built and working the rivers of B.C. and Alaska forever. A 90+ foot boat with 44" draft is normal. Years ago I worked on a 65 foot twin screw tunnel drive tug built to churn and bore its way up through gravel bars to a mining camp. We used 4 blade stainless steel props that looked like meat cleavers at the start of a trip and normal props by the time it was over.

The internal volume lost to the drives on a hull like that illustrated must be a high price to pay unless the owner has to choose between that and not being able to go someplace important.

 

[brian eiland]

I know absolutely nil about hull or boat design Brian but as unique as it may be below the waterline I really like what is above the waterline.

I liked them also, but placing that big stateroom at the rear instead of the great salon and aft deck of the Pilgrim design just didn't cut it with me.

Gerr's boat

 

[brian eiland]

The problem with radical new bottom designs is that often they are not new...people have been toying with ideas for decades if not centuries and it's hard to believe that all of a sudden...there's a new, practical and workable idea.

You don't think the Navies and Coats Guards of the world haven't been pushing for stuff like this for years?

I know of a number of 'advanced thinking' designs that have NOT been adopted by the USA Navy, nor the USA Coast Guard. ...old conservatives (polite for old fogeys)

Penn Yan had an old tunnel drive that went into shallow water very well from what I could tell but I also heard it handled very poorly, wasn't economical compared to others in it's class, etc..etc and that boat made it well into the production phase.

Admittedly I think both camps would say some of their development was based on the Penn Yan work. But the Penn Yan designs were principle about putting a recessed tunnel into the conventional v-bottomed hull to gain a shallow draft. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they did not get into reverse-deadrise territory. (Pardon me, I'm not a powerboat guy, so I'm now learning about powerboat hulls)

 

[psneeld]

170135[/SIZE]]I know of a number of 'advanced thinking' designs that have NOT been adopted by the USA Navy, nor the USA Coast Guard. ...old conservatives (polite for old fogeys)Not adopted because they didn't work anywhere's near advertised in most cases or what was given up was too much.

Admittedly I think both camps would say some of their development was based on the Penn Yan work. But the Penn Yan designs were principle about putting a recessed tunnel into the conventional v-bottomed hull to gain a shallow draft. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they did not get into reverse-deadrise territory. (Pardon me, I'm not a powerboat guy, so I'm now learning about powerboat hulls)

My point is not so much about "that" particular failure as much as MANY new designs are just tweaks of older designs that still may or may not work.

Just because some "naval architect" ran the numbers and drew a design isn't a success story...yet. Until tank tested and then tested in full scale versions under a variety of conditionons

 

[Nomad Willy]

WHAT?

psneeld you expect somebody to design a new boat that dosn't look like a boat?

 

[psneeld]

What????

 

[Art]

The ad says,"[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]This 32 Island Gypse has many upgrades and is in a class by its self, you will never find another like her. This boat has new fuel tank as of 2013, she also has many upgrades that are not found on a 32 Island Gypse.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]Click on the link and view the "photo Gallery".[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]Island Gypsy[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ted[/FONT]

Reminds me of Vinal Window retrofit - Not too bad an idea if you want to alter bottom design for any boat. Simply build the bottom form, plug boat inside, calk/fasten well - SPLASH! LOL

1990 Island Gypsy 32 Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

 

[brian eiland]

There have been a number of these Gerr boats built and out there operating. I don't have the time at this moment to quote the hold Passagemaker article, nor a number of others written about these designs, but here is a short excerpt.

Belle Marie cruises at a solid 10-11 knots, topping out at 11.5. At 11 knots, she consumes about 3gph,....This steady, continuous, confortable cruising speed,...11 knots on a 39'5" waterline is quite unusual. It corresponds to a speed-length ratio of 1.75. This is true semi-planing performance. Yet at 11 knots, Belle Marie makes no fuss at all going thru the water. She maintains level trim, throws no large wake, and in every respect behaves exactly as if she were operating at the standard displacement speed for this waterline of just 8.5 knots

She's equipped with a single 220 hp Cummins

 

[Northern Spy]

There have been a number of these Gerr boats built and out there operating.

IIRC, Gerr recognizes the Hickman Sea Sled for his design inspiration.

Hickman doesn't get near enough credit for his design work...

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Looks like a pontoon boat to me...

That was what I was thinking or put on top of a couple of Kayaks!!!

 

[brian eiland]

Crowther Coast Guard Catamran

I know of a number of 'advanced thinking' designs that have NOT been adopted by the USA Navy, nor the USA Coast Guard. ...old conservatives (polite for old fogeys)

Just one example. Quite a few years ago, the US Coast Guard was looking for a replacement vessel for their 82' patrol boats. Several things they wanted:
1) Good turn of speed
2) Economical to operate
3) Helo pad
4) Fast launching RIB capability

This design by Lock Crowther would have fit the bill VERY nicely. I tried to get the option to submit the proposal. I was even allowed to submit.

BUT it was before catamaran forms became 'acceptable', and it was designed by a foreigner (Australian).

Shortsightedness

 

[Tad Roberts]

There have been a number of these Gerr boats built and out there operating. I don't have the time at this moment to quote the hold Passagemaker article, nor a number of others written about these designs, but here is a short excerpt.

Originally Posted by PassagemakerMag
Belle Marie cruises at a solid 10-11 knots, topping out at 11.5. At 11 knots, she consumes about 3gph,....This steady, continuous, confortable cruising speed,...11 knots on a 39'5" waterline is quite unusual. It corresponds to a speed-length ratio of 1.75. This is true semi-planing performance. Yet at 11 knots, Belle Marie makes no fuss at all going thru the water. She maintains level trim, throws no large wake, and in every respect behaves exactly as if she were operating at the standard displacement speed for this waterline of just 8.5 knots


She's equipped with a single 220 hp Cummins

Those numbers don't make any sense......3gph is just above a high-idle for the 220 Cummins, it's about 65 HP......Does the boat really require another 150HP to get another 1/2 knot? At 2500 RPM that engine will go through over 11gph, and with all that HP she should do well over 12 knots......

 

[brian eiland]

Those numbers don't make any sense....

Perhaps you should write Passagemaker mag and/or Dave Gerr and ask them to explain these numbers?

I don't know Tad, I just quoted the article.

 

[Tony B]

I think they will be lucky to get $30K for it as it sits.
Maybe on the water it could be a winner. If I were boat shopping in that area, I would want to test drive it and that could sway my opinion. I think it would be a great river or lake boat.