Insulate or not to insulate; that is the question.

[BuoyOBuoy]

I am installing new headliner material in the v-berth of my 1979 Mainship 34, using the Whisper system and gluing wooden battens to staple the track to.
Is it wise, or necessary, to insulate before actually installing the headliner? All the Monkey fuzz has been removed and I'm down to bare fibreglas.
For those who think I should what should I use for insulation?

- Confusion did not say; "Man who leaps off cliff, jumps to conclusion"

 

[Comodave]

It depends on what you want to do with the boat. I see you are in Canada. Do you want to use the boat into the colder months? If so, then insulate, if you don't care about keeping the heat in the boat, then don't bother. Personally, I would go ahead and insulate since you have it torn apart. The insulation probably wouldn't be a large expense.

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

IMHO yes, especially because you have total access now. Even if its the bubble wrap insulation, under your new headliner material, it would be very cheap. Big box store material.

 

[Xsbank]

Keeps heat out too...makes it quieter - definitely.

Dont use anything flammable!

 

[BuoyOBuoy]

Keeps heat out too...makes it quieter - definitely.

Dont use anything flammable!

What isn't flammable?? If the boat is burning, insulation will be the least of my problems wouldn't you think?

 

[Lou_tribal]

I am in the same situation and I would say yes insulate. Well would not put 4 inches of insulation but at least an inch of insulation material. It will first reduce noise and keep the boat a bit warmer. Anyway I guess that like me your boat is on the hard during winter so insulation itself is not a major concern but last year our last weekend on the water was for thanksgiving (Canadian thanksgiving) and we woke up in morning with ice on the deck. But I was also surprised that as the boat sits in water far warmer than the air it was 16C in the boat even if it was freezing outside. All this to say that it is not mandatory but a bit of insulation would help.

L.

 

[BuoyOBuoy]

It depends on what you want to do with the boat. I see you are in Canada. Do you want to use the boat into the colder months? If so, then insulate, if you don't care about keeping the heat in the boat, then don't bother. Personally, I would go ahead and insulate since you have it torn apart. The insulation probably wouldn't be a large expense.

Thanks. Not so concerned with the cost as much as condensation causing mold under the headliner or under the insulation. Won't be using the boat in colder months so heat loss isn't a real concern.
More the concern is what type of insulation to use. IE rigid board from Lowes or a moisture resistant type such as bubble pack or the aluminium faced board.

 

[BuoyOBuoy]

I am in the same situation and I would say yes insulate. Well would not put 4 inches of insulation but at least an inch of insulation material. It will first reduce noise and keep the boat a bit warmer. Anyway I guess that like me your boat is on the hard during winter so insulation itself is not a major concern but last year our last weekend on the water was for thanksgiving (Canadian thanksgiving) and we woke up in morning with ice on the deck. But I was also surprised that as the boat sits in water far warmer than the air it was 16C in the boat even if it was freezing outside. All this to say that it is not mandatory but a bit of insulation would help.

L.

Thanks again, but what type of insulation to use ? Is there a standard that out-fitters use?

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. BOB. For sure insulate to the thickness of the glued on battens. Why not? ANY insulation, no matter how thick, should, as mentioned, aid in heating, cooling and sound attenuation. IF you're going to do it at all, now's the perfect time.

Just saw your post (#7)...I would think insulation would minimize condensation particularly in the cooler periods. What space (thickness) are you dealing with?

 

[BuoyOBuoy]

Greetings,
Mr. BOB. For sure insulate to the thickness of the glued on battens. Why not? ANY insulation, no matter how thick, should, as mentioned, aid in heating, cooling and sound attenuation. IF you're going to do it at all, now's the perfect time.

Just saw your post (#7)...I would think insulation would minimize condensation particularly in the cooler periods. What space (thickness) are you dealing with?

I have 7/8" between the fibreglas and the headliner material. Room for a 1/2 or 3/4 " thick material but what material to use ????

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

I would use foil covered 4x8 sheets of the foam from big box store. Easily cut into pieces for between your battens. I think it comes in 3/4" thick,made to insulate (not the white faom pebbles glued together).

 

[Insequent]

If you want to do it right, use Armaflex
Armacell Product Selector - NH Amraflex Non-halogen Insulation in Tubes, Sheets and Rolls

 

[Lou_tribal]

I am barely know anything about standards for insulation but I am pretty sure that what applies for homes would hardly applies for boat because of thickness (or maybe it is of no matter for you but in my case it is).
I know that I will use some material that is used to insulate containers of goods, don't know the exact name but it is like two metallic sheets enclosing a kind of foam. It is thin but highly efficient. I have a roll at home I will take a picture of it tomorrow.

L.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
As already mentioned, fire proof or fire retardant wouldn't be a bad idea. I appreciate the comment regarding the whole boat burning (perish the thought) but no sense in helping things along....

 

[Lou_tribal]

You should add some sausages in the insulation so if the boat ever burns you will have something to eat lo

L.

 

[FF]

The blue foam can be has in 1/4inch thickness and built up to what ever you need.

The blue stuff will release captured moisture , important if you will be heating in under freezing temps.

Getting rid of the moisture helps any wood in contact with the insulation from rotting.

 

[BuoyOBuoy]

I am barely know anything about standards for insulation but I am pretty sure that what applies for homes would hardly applies for boat because of thickness (or maybe it is of no matter for you but in my case it is).
I know that I will use some material that is used to insulate containers of goods, don't know the exact name but it is like two metallic sheets enclosing a kind of foam. It is thin but highly efficient. I have a roll at home I will take a picture of it tomorrow.

L.

Thanks for this. Yes, I would like to know what this is. It is kind of what I would imagine would serve to be some kind of insulation, fairly easy to install, adapt to the shape of the boat etc. If you can send me a picture or better still the name of it I would appreciate it.
Also thanks to everyone who helped me out on this site. Really good comments which helped me decide to insulate while I have everything apart.

 

[Martin J]

I'd insulate, cost so ittle. I've used a aircon product "Duct board" its a foil covered f/g;ass insulatioon board, just cut it with a razor knife. Great for sound as well , used it on my engine rooms over the years. You can just tape the seam after. Master Flow 48 in. x 120 in. Duct Board - R-6-DBOARD1 - The Home Depot

 

[FF]

In a cold climate where the vessel will be heated any moisture will condense inside the insulation where it gets to 32F .

Most often this is where the installed insulation meets the cold deck.

I use battens to hold up the insulation but have discovered the "brass" finishing washers are only brass plated , and are rusting.

Does anyone have a source for real brass , not brass plated steel , finishing washers?

I need a few hundred.

 

[Chrisjs]

If considering foam boards, you might do well to consider Thermax insulation made by Dow.
It is a rigid polyisocynurate foam sandwiched between 2 thick layers of aluminum foil. It is fire-rated for use in exposed (residential) situations. It comes in 1", 1.5" and 2" thickness.

On the other hand, I would avoid any foam board that it not easily configured to the deck contour. To minimize condensation on the underside of the deck, it is important to avoid air spaces between the underside of the deck and the insulation. A conforming insulation should be glued to the underside of the deck to minimize air gaps. You might also do well to finally "seal" the insulation on the interior side using a polyethylene liner with taped seams.

Using the PE vapor barrier is even more critical if you use non-conforming sheet insulation and end up with gaps between sections and /or between insulation and deck.

Lastly, I would absolutely avoid any fiberglass batt type insulation. Once it gets wet it stays wet!!

 

[CDreamer]

FF -
Not sure where you live but you might try a Fastener company in your area...somebody that sells construction or commercial fasteners, monel, stainless, etc. I find these companies to have better quality products and usually significantly cheaper that typical retailers. These guys might ship to you: Coastal Fastener Co., Houston, TX

 

[Lou_tribal]

In a cold climate where the vessel will be heated any moisture will condense inside the insulation where it gets to 32F .

Most often this is where the installed insulation meets the cold deck.

I use battens to hold up the insulation but have discovered the "brass" finishing washers are only brass plated , and are rusting.

Does anyone have a source for real brass , not brass plated steel , finishing washers?

I need a few hundred.

Lee Valley is your friend:

Brass Finishing/Cup Washers - Lee Valley Tools

L.

 

[FF]

"Solid brass, sold in hundreds.

Thanks for the tip.