Is bigger better

[READY]

Is bigger better?

Speaking only from my experience as a serial boat owner (10+) over the past 40 years I found as with most things it depends upon many factors. First boat was a ski boat which we used almost every weekend and have great memories. Now I have one in storage I purchased 20 years ago when living on a lake. I take it out occasionally but justify keeping it for when the grandkids come along. We have owned cruising boats ranging from 28 ft to 58 feet. At the time they each seemed right and I could manage the budget. We are just moving from a 32 Nordic Tugs to the 48 Hatteras LRC. The 32 was great for weekends, low cost to operate and easy to find berths. But we want to have our kids join in and I wanted another Hatteras (the 58' was a Hatteras EDMY.

So in summary I am a one wife man but change the boats to fit my current desires, family situation, geographical location and budget. I do think the 35-50 foot range is good but let's face it if I had unlimited funds, did not want to operate it myself I would really enjoy 80+ feet!

 

[Boatfever]

Nope, all things considered, if I were to entertain the thought of a different boat, a stand up ER would move to the top of my short list.


There are still DeFevers available
You're just not gonna make 20 knots in a 44 or a 49 CMY but you'll love the engine room.
And the salon and galley ain't half bad either...

 

[Aft Deck Capt]

We opted for this boat after looking in the 34-36 range. I wanted enough space so that we wouldn't feel cramped and get the itch to move up, which seed like a common theme when we were shopping. Alsol quite satisfied with the ER space (even w/twins) since I perform all maintenance tasks.

 

[tiltrider1]

We opted for this boat after looking in the 34-36 range. I wanted enough space so that we wouldn't feel cramped and get the itch to move up, which seed like a common theme when we were shopping. Alsol quite satisfied with the ER space (even w/twins) since I perform all maintenance tasks.

42 feet is definitely in that zone of too big and too small at the same time. Anything bigger or smaller is a compromise.

 

[FF]

The biggest hassle I see is folks with a bigger boat want to turn it into a floating dirt house.

Complex and multiple systems all require PM , and occasional replacement.

A big simple boat is great for retirement , even tho the oxygen tent is not air conditioned and there is no sauna.

 

[rslifkin]

The biggest hassle I see is folks with a bigger boat want to turn it into a floating dirt house.

Complex and multiple systems all require PM , and occasional replacement.

A big simple boat is great for retirement , even tho the oxygen tent is not air conditioned and there is no sauna.

Agreed. Big boats with simple systems are unfortunately all too rare. I'd be perfectly happy with a 45 - 50 footer with similar systems complexity to my fairly simple (but not spartan) 38 footer, but unfortunately, most are much more complex.

 

[boathealer]

Agreed. Big boats with simple systems are unfortunately all too rare. I'd be perfectly happy with a 45 - 50 footer with similar systems complexity to my fairly simple (but not spartan) 38 footer, but unfortunately, most are much more complex.

Complex systems become simple on their own if left alone.


?

 

[Medic]

I think 45-50 feet is a sweet spot. I had a Nordhavn 55, which is actually 62+ feet in length according to the "admeasurer" for the Panama Canal, who measured every inch so they could calculate my Canal fees. It had only a single engine (with a separate "get home" engine), but because it was rated for all oceans it had a ridiculous amount of system redundancy and was very complex. Supposedly, when underway, someone was to do an engine room check every four hours. Since we traveled 24 hours a day for 63 days that was an awful lot of ER checks. The ER was walk around.

I bought a North Pacific 49 recently and really like it. I check the ER before and after firing up the single engine, and make my way down into the ER probably once a day if traveling through the night, but that's it. It is not standup but others tell me it is a pleasure to work in. I'll take their word for it because I really liked the standup in the Nordhavn.

I absolutely LOVE the relative (!!) lack of complexity. It was just so easy to get my head around. There is no second engine (the "get home"), but since the North Pacific is a coastal cruiser the idea is that if the Cummins diesel (I won't have gasoline!) were to conk out for one reason or another the idea is to call for help, and since I tend to cruise 5-25 miles offshore that seems reasonable.

Two spacious cabins. Two full heads. A huge salon. A full size kitchen with a gigantic fridge. Bow and stern thrusters. Cruise at 8 knots all day and get 1.5 mpg, better than 2 mpg at 7.5 knots. Fuel capacity 850 gallons which is fantastic. The previous owner said we would never run out of storage and I simply smiled and thought "right". Well, we haven't been able to use all the storage, but my wife will keep trying. The only thing I don't like is that it does not have stabilization yet. I will likely put in a Seakeeper gyro stabilizer which will fit very nicely in the laz assuming my business (student travel) can still provide me with some income (none in 2020 that's for sure).

The 55 was a beast. I loved the ride and I could single hand her on the Great Lakes when I just wanted to go out on a nice evening and had no one around. Even at the slip. I can single hand the 49 no problem and have learned the joys of having a remote control for the thrusters. Can even step off the swim platform to throw on a quick stern line and then walk down the dock and use a hook to grab a bow line, all the while keeping the boat snug against the dock.

So. If you are going to live aboard for extended periods (more than a week every once in awhile), get something in the 45-50 foot range. My home is over 8,000 square feet, and we have plenty of room on the North Pacific 49. By the way, if you want to buy my house please let me know. I would LOVE to be in a 2500-3000 square foot house. I don't know what we were ever thinking.


Ciao.

 

[Slider70]

If after reading all this information and suggestions, you decide to go bigger there is one very important question to have a positive answer to before buying your boat. Where are you going to moor her?

Finding moorage is a must before spending the money. For instance, some berths in False Creek, Vancouver, for larger vessels have a 10 to 12 year waiting list. Space is often a challenge.

 

[T210DRVR]

I subscribe to the KISS principle. Keep it simple stupid. I favor an older boat with simple systems including old school mechanical engines. Simple systems seem to fail less often and are easier to fix.

I’m pretty happy with my GB 42. Enough room to sleep an additional couple, lots of useable room, and walk around decks. If it was just the wife and I a smaller vessel might fit our needs. The larger the boat the more difficult to find slips. I’ve found slips for my boat to be relatively available, but much larger limits choices considerably. I’d sure like to have more height in the engine room. I’m 6’3” and climbing around in mine results in many scalp injuries. It’s not easy on the back as I’m seriously stooped over. Wiggling on top of the engines to service the outboard accessories is a PITA too.

I’d settle for a larger vessel with large engine spaces if funds were unlimited.

I’ve found maneuverability to be good in my 42’. With twins or a bow thruster I don’t think it’s an issue. I single hand mine fairly often and find it challenging but possible. I think much larger would be more difficult

 

[Simi 60]

If after reading all this information and suggestions, you decide to go bigger there is one very important question to have a positive answer to before buying your boat. Where are you going to moor her?

Finding moorage is a must before spending the money. For instance, some berths in False Creek, Vancouver, for larger vessels have a 10 to 12 year waiting list. Space is often a challenge.

Maybe they'll actually use the boat instead of tying it up?

 

[ranger58sb]

Maybe they'll actually use the boat instead of tying it up?

Probably what "use" means is personal preference. We're on our boat sometimes around 200/days/year, away from a dock (at least for a while) maybe 130-150 days/year, anchored out only occasionally.

-Chris

 

[Stickman]

You used the pronoun "we".
The wisest advice a fellow life long boater gave me years ago was "there isn't any 'family boating' without your family".

What does the other half want to be happy and enjoy the boat and therefore enjoy time on it? Get that, and be done. Then deal with the extra time and expense if needed.

If I was alone, I'd have 39-42 footer. With two and inviting guests?, then I'd go with two full heads; good laundry set up; easy set up for beverages-food-ice; high initial stability.

 

[Woodland Hills]

As a big boat owner I’ll take a contrary view: bigger is better! If you have the budget.

We do and we love having the extra size: lots of storage for spares, tools and supplies. Lots of space for guests overnight and room to entertain a dozen or more in the evening. Huge tanks, 375 water and 275 black, for a extended cruising. Lots of room around components to perform any service or repairs. Lots of room for a 14’ tender with 60hp for exploration, room for a motor scooter for shopping and tourism, room for a home-style kitchen and a second freezer for Bahamas trips.

At 100k lbs and 18’ beam/70’ LOA we lie quietly at anchor in waves that have the 35 footers pitching and showing their bottom paint. We have essentially the same systems as a 45+ footer, we just don’t have them tucked into cubby holes.

At hull speed we get 10gph at 10mph and with 1000+ gallons of fuel we can fill up where it is cheapest and have enough range to get to the next cheap fuel station.

We have redundant critical systems such as two generators and three heads as well as a big inverter bank to have a “quiet boat” after cooking dinner for much of the year.

Finally since older big boats are significantly underpriced once they get a few years on them we bought her for a very reasonable price.

 

[Davil1]

If you are happy with the current boat with everything but the engine room, and only have a limited time left for boating, figure out the additional cost of the larger boat for 5 years or so ( purchase, outfitting, maint. dockage, etc )....and compare that to what it would cost to just hire out the work on your current boat. You may find it cheaper to just hire a mechanic and keep the boat you already know intimately.

==============================================


thank you very much
you just saved me a lot of money and agravation
will keep mine
79 y/o
David

 

[Simi 60]

Probably what "use" means is personal preference. We're on our boat sometimes around 200/days/year, away from a dock (at least for a while) maybe 130-150 days/year, anchored out only occasionally.

-Chris

I mean use as in out cruising and no marina.
For us, having a bigger boat and actually using her full time saves us money.

The alternative would be parking in a marina paying liveaboard rates and running a car costing us $25,000+ a year, and we still need to pay for boat fuel, maintenance, insurance etc on top of that.

$25,000 is more than the boat costs us a year to actually use full time cruising (fuel, maintenance, insurance etc)

 

[Simi 60]

As a big boat owner I’ll take a contrary view: bigger is better! If you have the budget.

We do and we love having the extra size: lots of storage for spares, tools and supplies. Lots of space for guests overnight and room to entertain a dozen or more in the evening. Huge tanks, 375 water and 275 black, for a extended cruising. Lots of room around components to perform any service or repairs. Lots of room for a 14’ tender with 60hp for exploration, room for a motor scooter for shopping and tourism, room for a home-style kitchen and a second freezer for Bahamas trips.

At 100k lbs and 18’ beam/70’ LOA we lie quietly at anchor in waves that have the 35 footers pitching and showing their bottom paint. We have essentially the same systems as a 45+ footer, we just don’t have them tucked into cubby holes.

At hull speed we get 10gph at 10mph and with 1000+ gallons of fuel we can fill up where it is cheapest and have enough range to get to the next cheap fuel station.

We have redundant critical systems such as two generators and three heads as well as a big inverter bank to have a “quiet boat” after cooking dinner for much of the year.

Finally since older big boats are significantly underpriced once they get a few years on them we bought her for a very reasonable price.

Exactly and agree with all of that.
Ours was a giveaway price as the previous owner wasn't using her and the above mentioned marina fees were bleeding him out and turning other buyers off.

 

[Mako]

Simi, have you guys sunk a mooring out in the harbor, or do you anchor each day?

 

[Simi 60]

Simi, have you guys sunk a mooring out in the harbor, or do you anchor each day?

No mooring, we are continually on the move.

Give us another hour or so and we are anchors up and on to the next spot.

 

[The Brockerts]

I don't live full time but I have moved off a 35 foot catamaran to a 48 foot Carver MV. Is bigger better, yes but not for the service/maintenance. I still find everything hard to work on and I'm old and have a very bad back. I would say its about the same for working on things. Some things are easier some things harder. The big difference is my wife and I each have our own space and then shared spaces. There are more things to maintain, like 4 AC's instead 1 and 2 engines instead of 1. Oil is easier to change but the implellers are much harder and now 3 of them(generatro) I wouldn't go back for anything.

The Brockerts

 

[ranger58sb]

I mean use as in out cruising and no marina.

I know, but that's not everyone's cuppa...

Everyone is allowed to choose their own use...

-Chris

 

[rslifkin]

I know, but that's not everyone's cuppa...

Everyone is allowed to choose their own use...

-Chris

Exactly. And some of us would love to spend a few months of the year doing that but life just won't allow it right now. But good luck getting me to pass on an opportunity to spend time on the boat, even if we're only out for the day.

 

[Nickair]

Seems like 39’ has always been the sweet spot for many reasons, financial, moorage availability, single handing, machinery, economy, etc. Unless you are a couple or family living aboard for more than the boating season. Then bigger is better.

 

[South of Heaven]

GO BIGGER. I started my liveaboard life on a Camano 31 and then bought a Silverton 35 Motoryacht with 2 BRs and 2 baths.....the 35 still felt small.

 

[FF]

A larger boat set up right can live very well at anchor, and is a delight compared to slip living.

The cost of a dock for your dink is far less than for your home.

 

[markrkrebs]

ramping up

What a fun thread.

My boat trajectory has been upward, first a 30' racing sloop, then moved to PNW, & have lived aboard 42' Devever, 49' Defever, now just recently a 61' Tollycraft. I do see the systems complexity jump some have mentioned! The big boat is daunting even though, an engineer I'm generally unconcerned about such things. I've got some pump down there I can't figure out what it even does yet! However, I thought the 49 was a sweet spot for two people, not too complex at all. My minimum equipment list is something we talked about a lot when we bought the big Defever: fiberglass, laundry, propane stove, twin heads and engines, and vacuflush. We didn't start out looking for that last, and you may call that a complex head, but I've done *serious* maintenance on both those and conventional electric macerator heads, and think them TOTALLY worth it. Ask me about the exploding poop tank sometime. On the second tier list, nice to have list are heat and twin showers. The second shower is again for redundancy. Even if you're good about maintenance, downtime is unacceptable so a backup is good. Heat is perhaps less important in PNW if you're liveaboard: you can get enough heat from the shorepower without going broke. But if you like to go out a lot you won't have that electricity. That's why the propane heat matters to us as well: dislike the constant generator yammering, so we want a minimum electric demand afloat.

In a conservative mode, I would have kept the 49' RPH Defever and just added a Kabula hydronic heater.

Laundry is what separates us from the animals, and saves you 2 hours of reading pulp fiction in a noisy public place each week. I didn't say bow thruster. Don't need it with twin screws: you'll get good. Maybe in a big boat. The 61 has a thruster and I'd be scared without it.

Last thought, I've bought space-inefficient boats in exchange for performance or "style" and tastes differ: you can get a LOT of living space in a 42' boat if you move towards a more modern platform so in comparing everybody's comments, think about square footage. A 42' Ocean Alexander with a raised "california deck, full beam aft cabin, main cabin, V berth and enclosed flybridge is a bit bigger than was my 49' raised pilothouse trawler, so 42' plus 20 years of design modernization feels like 50', on the inside.

 

[Codger2]

.........so in comparing everybody's comments, think about square footage. A 42' Ocean Alexander with a raised "california deck, full beam aft cabin, main cabin, V berth and enclosed flybridge is a bit bigger than was my 49' raised pilothouse trawler, so 42' plus 20 years of design modernization feels like 50', on the inside.

Both my wife and I had exactly that same thought when we compared the 2006 OA 42 to our original 1990 OA 42.

 

[READY]

I have had boats from 21 to 58. Currently at 48 ft. 32 turned out to be too small for us, no redundant head (almost derailed a Catalina trip). 58 was great but expensive and complex. Too muc boat much of the time. Obviously this is influenced by selection bias but 48 is a good compromise. Plenty of room to spread out, raises pilothouse, flybridge (not that important to me) and decent sized engine room. A very good go anywhere boat.