Is it legal to throw my old rusted out holding tank overboard offshore? If so how fa

[rwidman]

This was my favorite post.

Sickness and poverty entitle you to some sympathy and help, and maybe even some kind words and good wishes. They do NOT entitle you to break the law, or exempt you from your moral obligation to protect the seas and the planet.

I can't afford a new iphone, so it is OK if I steal one from someone ?

I sprained my ankle and its really inconvenient to walk to the dumpter..can I just throw my trash out of my apartment window...maybe just the paper goods since they'll break down quickly ?

If you really thought it was OK to dump it, you woulnd't have asked the forum.

In 2 minutes of googling I found 4 scrap metal dealers/recyclers located on Marathon.

I'm sorry your finances and health aren't great. I hope they improve. Now go do the right thing.

Well said!

 

[foggysail]

Isn't that what web forums are about? Electronic soap boxes?

Without the preaching, THANK YOU

 

[foggysail]

This was my favorite post.

Sickness and poverty entitle you to some sympathy and help, and maybe even some kind words and good wishes. They do NOT entitle you to break the law, or exempt you from your moral obligation to protect the seas and the planet.

I can't afford a new iphone, so it is OK if I steal one from someone ?

I sprained my ankle and its really inconvenient to walk to the dumpter..can I just throw my trash out of my apartment window...maybe just the paper goods since they'll break down quickly ?

If you really thought it was OK to dump it, you woulnd't have asked the forum.

In 2 minutes of googling I found 4 scrap metal dealers/recyclers located on Marathon.

I'm sorry your finances and health aren't great. I hope they improve. Now go do the right thing.

You are being presumptuous! The OP gave no hints about stealing anything.

 

[CPseudonym]

 

[Planobilly]

Hi, Billy here

I live in Homestead but I can come to Marathon and give you a hand. I have a house in Marathon. I can take the tank to the dump or the ocean or my own little snapper reef in the bay or perhaps add it to this pile next to my house in the photo.

[/IMG]

Billy 305-923-3624

 

[CDreamer]

Billy - that was a very nice gesture to Bigfish and far more helpful than berating him by extrapolating what seemed to be a reasonable original question into some sort of indictment of his entire character.
Good karma to you.

 

[Seevee]

This was my favorite post.

Sickness and poverty entitle you to some sympathy and help, and maybe even some kind words and good wishes. They do NOT entitle you to break the law, or exempt you from your moral obligation to protect the seas and the planet.

I can't afford a new iphone, so it is OK if I steal one from someone ?

I sprained my ankle and its really inconvenient to walk to the dumpter..can I just throw my trash out of my apartment window...maybe just the paper goods since they'll break down quickly ?

If you really thought it was OK to dump it, you woulnd't have asked the forum.

In 2 minutes of googling I found 4 scrap metal dealers/recyclers located on Marathon.

I'm sorry your finances and health aren't great. I hope they improve. Now go do the right thing.

Is it the law? There has been a few contradictory posts on that. I don't know.

BUT no where did the OP say he was going to break the law. The reason he asked, is that he didn't know.

Heck, there's even be posts indicating that it's not harmful, so do we know the answer to that?

I think you're kinda harsh on this guy. And moral or not, that's not the issue. Your morals may be different and that's fine, but you can't dictate your morals on others. And there is no moral obligation to do anything.

Your post reflects things that are clearly against the law. Different animal, until we know for sure it's against the law.

 

[High Wire]

If your boat is over 26 ft , you should have a "trash " placard onboard which simply states what can go over the side and where.

 

[Planobilly]

DUMPING LITTER PROHIBITED.—Unless otherwise authorized by law or permit, it is unlawful for any person to dump litter in any manner or amount:
(a) In or on any public highway, road, street, alley, or thoroughfare, including any portion of the right-of-way thereof, or any other public lands, except in containers or areas lawfully provided therefor. When any litter is thrown or discarded from a motor vehicle, the operator or owner of the motor vehicle, or both, shall be deemed in violation of this section;
(b) In or on any freshwater lake, river, canal, or stream or tidal or coastal water of the state, including canals. When any litter is thrown or discarded from a boat, the operator or owner of the boat, or both, shall be deemed in violation of this section;

This is Florida state law as it apply to Monroe county and other counties as well.

From a legal standpoint dumping the tank in Florida water is not legal. The fact that it could be or may not be actually harmful has nothing to do with the fact that it is illegal.

Unless otherwise authorized by law or permit you cannot dump stuff in the water in Florida state waters.

Now...what actually goes on around Marathon is that a few people take the risk on dumping metal junk in the water for the purpose of creating small artificial reefs for fishing. The fish seem to be very happy but getting caught doing this will most likely land you in jail. You can find all the info in detail here http://www.leg.state.fl.us

I assume others federal laws regulate dumping stuff out to 200 miles. What they are and what you can and cannot do I don't fully know.

I personally don't dump stuff in the water because I have a vested interests in the ocean and to some extent want to obeying the law. I will fish on the junk other people dump...lol

As far as the law in general goes, we use to have something in the law called "the reasonable man" Problem is he died in 1956 and had no children.

 

[rwidman]

Yep, illegal.

What I have trouble understanding is why the OP is considering motoring twelve miles out and twelve miles back to throw his tank overboard (legal or not) when it's probably a few hundred yards to shore to get rid of it legally or even sell it to a scrap dealer for a dollar or two.

Yes, he has posted some excuses about not being able to get to a dock but that leaves me wondering how he gets to and from his boat and how he gets to and from it with food, water and supplies and how he disposes of his trash (and the contents of his holding tank). Something is not adding up here.

 

[roguewave]

Some political leanings are clearly evident in this thread...

 

[cardude01]

My favorite post. Good for you Billy.

Hi, Billy here



I live in Homestead but I can come to Marathon and give you a hand. I have a house in Marathon. I can take the tank to the dump or the ocean or my own little snapper reef in the bay or perhaps add it to this pile next to my house in the photo.

[/IMG]



Billy 305-923-3624

 

[Seevee]

This was my favorite post.

Sickness and poverty entitle you to some sympathy and help, and maybe even some kind words and good wishes. They do NOT entitle you to break the law, or exempt you from your moral obligation to protect the seas and the planet.

I can't afford a new iphone, so it is OK if I steal one from someone ?

I sprained my ankle and its really inconvenient to walk to the dumpter..can I just throw my trash out of my apartment window...maybe just the paper goods since they'll break down quickly ?

If you really thought it was OK to dump it, you woulnd't have asked the forum.

In 2 minutes of googling I found 4 scrap metal dealers/recyclers located on Marathon.

I'm sorry your finances and health aren't great. I hope they improve. Now go do the right thing.

DUMPING LITTER PROHIBITED.—Unless otherwise authorized by law or permit, it is unlawful for any person to dump litter in any manner or amount:
(a) In or on any public highway, road, street, alley, or thoroughfare, including any portion of the right-of-way thereof, or any other public lands, except in containers or areas lawfully provided therefor. When any litter is thrown or discarded from a motor vehicle, the operator or owner of the motor vehicle, or both, shall be deemed in violation of this section;
(b) In or on any freshwater lake, river, canal, or stream or tidal or coastal water of the state, including canals. When any litter is thrown or discarded from a boat, the operator or owner of the boat, or both, shall be deemed in violation of this section;

This is Florida state law as it apply to Monroe county and other counties as well.

From a legal standpoint dumping the tank in Florida water is not legal. The fact that it could be or may not be actually harmful has nothing to do with the fact that it is illegal.

Unless otherwise authorized by law or permit you cannot dump stuff in the water in Florida state waters.

Now...what actually goes on around Marathon is that a few people take the risk on dumping metal junk in the water for the purpose of creating small artificial reefs for fishing. The fish seem to be very happy but getting caught doing this will most likely land you in jail. You can find all the info in detail here http://www.leg.state.fl.us

I assume others federal laws regulate dumping stuff out to 200 miles. What they are and what you can and cannot do I don't fully know.

I personally don't dump stuff in the water because I have a vested interests in the ocean and to some extent want to obeying the law. I will fish on the junk other people dump...lol

As far as the law in general goes, we use to have something in the law called "the reasonable man" Problem is he died in 1956 and had no children.

Benthic2,

Your speaking of coastal waters, lakes and rivers. Once you're 3 miles off shore you can legally dump.

Not my cup of tea, but that's the law, and that was the OPs question.

Now, does the tank qualify as dumpable garbage? Don't know, and your site it just too large to see the law that you're referring to, but suspect that's FL law and applicable within the 3 mile limit.

 

[BruceK]

Good on you Billy. In English law, "the reasonable man" equivalent is/was "the man on the Clapham omnibus".
Best wishes to the OP for a good recovery. I venture he`s sorry he asked.

 

[neptunesjester]

I'm on the Boot Key Cruisers page and see the postings from the city about debris removal. Couldn't you just toss it on a pile for pick up and be done with it? Or toss it in one of the wrecked boats that have been surrendered to FWC for wreck removal?

 

[psneeld]

My poont on being legal or illegal was only if he was trying to add it to a fish haven to make it useful.

Past 12 miles and it should be legal...but even the MARPOL rules are squirrely if read too closely.

And at that much trouble, I too would think some sort of scrap puckup would be the best way to go.

 

[BandB]

My poont on being legal or illegal was only if he was trying to add it to a fish haven to make it useful.

Past 12 miles and it should be legal...but even the MARPOL rules are squirrely if read too closely.

And at that much trouble, I too would think some sort of scrap puckup would be the best way to go.

Plus the London Convention. The London Convention as reflected in the MPRSA are pretty complex and limiting. There are also rules which regulate the carrying of anything from shore to offshore for the purpose of disposal.

Now, there is a disposal site for allowed and permitted items off the coast of Miami.

In the current situation, local governments are accepting most anything you can toss in the pile along the road.

 

[cool beans]

"Free Scrap Metal for Pickup"

Post that on Craigslist, works every time for me...usually that day

 

[Peter B]

Just before Irma hit, a major leak developed in my old stainless holding tank. Just had major liver surgery and living on SS ONLY.. Need to replace holding tank asap. Cheaply as possible

Bigfish, coming back at you after all that has gone before, but taking on board what has already been said, my suggestion is this.

Accepting you live-aboard, on a swing mooring, not a marina berth, and are at present hampered by a significant health issue, there are only about two really viable options.

One, pay someone to replace the tank, preferably with a synthetic one, for all the reasons others have said, and just make it a condition of the new installation that they take away and dispose of the old tank in an appropriate recycling type manner. This is assuming all your other toilet plumbing is ok, and that normally obtaining legal pump-outs would not be a problem.

Or, two, accept that this toilet issue is always going to be a problem, especially legal pump-out of untreated sewage, so go down a different path, and as you live alone on the boat, and therefore would not generate that much to offload, consider a large portable camp type loo, and just blank off the old tank, remove the marine toilet, and as the portable loo contents are chemically treated, they are considered safe enough in many places to just be emptied overboard, or if not where you are, and that's quite probable, the holding tank can be detached, rowed ashore, and dumped into the domestic sewage system.

Call this latter suggestion one out of left field if you will. Many will holler sacrilege, but hey, there is no law graven on any tablet of stone that you must have a flushing domestic type toilet on board, and they are, and always will be, huge sources of angst and cost keeping that type of plumbing in good order in the marine environment. Ask me how I know..?

I made the above switch, and it sure works for us. Of course we are not live-aboards, but that's the only difference. Where we are it is well nigh impossible to obtain legal pumps-out with any kind of convenience or without traveling hours to reach one. So, you can guess what most do. I prefer to be legal. Just a thought in terms of thinking outside the traditional square.

 

[psneeld]

Just in case out of the box works......

https://www.wholesalemarine.com/sealand-965-msd-portable-toilet-5-0-gallon.html

965 MSD (Pump Out Only) Portable Toilet- 5 Gallon

Features:

Parchment Color5 gallon (19 L) holding tank capacity.Includes stainless steel hold-down brackets.MSD Convenience - 965 MSD models are permanently installed for use with dockside pump-out facilities.Self-contained 2.6 gallon (9.8 L) freshwater supply - Top-mounted port offers easy in-vessel filling.Compact holding tanks, lots of capacity. 5.0 gallon (19 L) holding tanks; enough for 30 - 50 uses!Durable design. High-density polyethylene construction provides strength and toughness; drop it, stand on it - this unit can take it!Attractive matte finish. Scratch-resistant finish is easy to keep clean; looks new for years.Comfortable! Adult-size seat and lid provide comfort and safety; side latches lock firmly for added safety.Versatile uses. Great for boats, RVs, trailers, vans, camping, cottages, trucks, bedside, potty training, work sites, and more!Simple to winterize and maintain. All parts and seals are user replaceable.

 

[Seevee]

Just in case out of the box works......

https://www.wholesalemarine.com/sealand-965-msd-portable-toilet-5-0-gallon.html

965 MSD (Pump Out Only) Portable Toilet- 5 Gallon

Features:

Parchment Color5 gallon (19 L) holding tank capacity.Includes stainless steel hold-down brackets.MSD Convenience - 965 MSD models are permanently installed for use with dockside pump-out facilities.Self-contained 2.6 gallon (9.8 L) freshwater supply - Top-mounted port offers easy in-vessel filling.Compact holding tanks, lots of capacity. 5.0 gallon (19 L) holding tanks; enough for 30 - 50 uses!Durable design. High-density polyethylene construction provides strength and toughness; drop it, stand on it - this unit can take it!Attractive matte finish. Scratch-resistant finish is easy to keep clean; looks new for years.Comfortable! Adult-size seat and lid provide comfort and safety; side latches lock firmly for added safety.Versatile uses. Great for boats, RVs, trailers, vans, camping, cottages, trucks, bedside, potty training, work sites, and more!Simple to winterize and maintain. All parts and seals are user replaceable.

psneeld,

30 to 50 uses? With a 5 gal holding tank? How can that be, seems like one would need a much larger container for that many uses. What am I missing?

 

[Seevee]

With all this discussion about crap and stuff, I really think our law makers should come up with better ways to keep our waters clean.

There should be an act preventing fish from peeing and pooping in our waters, and polluting our seas. It should be mandatory for all fish.

For compliance there would be a "fish tank" along side of a docking stating where the fish could do their thing and it would be pumped out for proper disposal. In payment for this facility the price would be we would eat one of the fish every so often.

 

[roguewave]

sometimes it’s better to just be quiet...

This was my favorite post.

Sickness and poverty entitle you to some sympathy and help, and maybe even some kind words and good wishes. They do NOT entitle you to break the law, or exempt you from your moral obligation to protect the seas and the planet.

I can't afford a new iphone, so it is OK if I steal one from someone ?

I sprained my ankle and its really inconvenient to walk to the dumpter..can I just throw my trash out of my apartment window...maybe just the paper goods since they'll break down quickly ?

If you really thought it was OK to dump it, you woulnd't have asked the forum.

In 2 minutes of googling I found 4 scrap metal dealers/recyclers located on Marathon.

I'm sorry your finances and health aren't great. I hope they improve. Now go do the right thing.

 

[Mako]

bigfish, seems like everyone else has an opinion (5 pages worth) on this so let me offer mine:

You are currently faced with serious health circumstances, loss of mobility due to surgery, health issues related to a leaking sewage tank, extreme living conditions due to a severe hurricane which just ravaged your location, etc.

Stop asking a bunch of strangers on a forum for permission for you to make a decision to do what you need in order to survive in bare-minimal comfort. There are too much preaching, holier-than-though ethics, litigious lawyers and armchair sailors here.

I hope you conclude things easily and can go on with comfort and peace.

 

[psneeld]

psneeld,

30 to 50 uses? With a 5 gal holding tank? How can that be, seems like one would need a much larger container for that many uses. What am I missing?

I didnt write the advertising, but my guess is little to no flush water.

Someone just posted the average daily output of a human and if that was anything accurate, it might be closer to 20 uses, but the claim above was not mine.

 

[Bigfish]

Thanks for the thought. First, I have offered to pay someone and have had no responses. The boatyards are backed up for weeks, that porta potty will be very awkward for me to get into and out of my kayak as my swimstep was destroyed in the hurricane. A composting toilet would be an option but they're expensive. The leaking hold tank still will need to be removed preferably sooner rather than later. Thanks for the thoughts though. A liesurely calm weather cruise offshore with some friends and plenty of beer for them, as I don't and can't drink, still seems the simplest and cheapest solution to me. What I dump out there will be about equal to ehst a fly craps on your windshield compared to what mother nature just did to thr environment down here.. I happen to be part of nstire too. If a whale can sump tons of **** in the ocean at will, certainly I can add an old relatively benign holding tank to the immense contents of the briny deep without going straight to hell. ..

 

[psneeld]

Specific gravity calculation maybe?

Any engineers or physicists want to weigh in here?

One did and pointed back to entrained mass....
Sorry .... my bad.

 

[Sugardog]

Can't believe the question is even asked.

 

[rwidman]

Can't believe the question is even asked.

Well, considering that the OP had already decided that was what he was going to do before he asked it, I have to agree with you.

A lot of people's time was wasted and feelings were hurt.

 

[firstbase]

"Free Scrap Metal for Pickup"

Post that on Craigslist, works every time for me...usually that day

Especially here in Florida. Put the tank on a curb, any curb, and it will be a birdhouse in someones yard by dinner time.

Holding tank. Dinner time. Sorry, my bad.