Is Part Time Cruising Possible?

[SteveK]

Two identical boats, one you charter, the other you own from a remote distance and others maintain.
The only difference I see between owing v. charter is if your time on the boat for pleasure is significantly less on the chartered boat than the owned boat.
IMO, if used the same amount of time during a "cruising season" the charter boat will cost less.
This assumes that there is no DIY on the owned boat, the non pleasure use time.

 

[Frank60]

I'm in the same position as the OP and have the same questions. So this thread has been very helpful. I currently own a 40 foot boat on an inland lake and looking to move to the ocean for the freedom to travel and explore.

I'm also considering the charter route vs ownership, but charters seem to come with pretty tight limits on how far you can take the boat. If you're looking to spend a few months a year on the boat and travel widely, you'd need to keep switching charter companies in various locations.

We've also never been too happy with the condition of boats that we've chartered even when getting them from well known companies. We've had significant issues that impacted the enjoyment of our charters. Then there's the added stress of operating an unfamiliar boat.

I'm also wondering about Yacht Management Companies. I didn't know that service existed. Can anyone give examples of what you pay for a good company to take care of your boat while you're away? I'm looking at southeast coast of the US but north of Florida because of insurance. Appreciate any ballpark costs that could help with preliminary budgeting.

 

[Hippocampus]

Yacht management comes at all levels and is very situation dependent. I have no knowledge of Florida only the Caribbean.
Basic level is they come by at a interval you stipulate. Check charge on your battery banks. Check if your solar and wind generators are working. Check your bilge and if the pump was triggered to run. Check for any fresh water ingress. See how how much electricity was used (AC shore and boat DC) on the Philippi. Walk the decks. Check you UV coverings. Look at the hull, cradle, stands and fittings. They usually do a check list you’ve requested and a bunch of pictures to prove they did them. Then email their report to you. Now a days a lot people have various forms of remote monitoring on their boat. You l look at that app and will contact he yacht management company if something comes up. Some use that to have less frequent in person visits. If you have a cover and a named storm or high winds comes through the yard usually insists the cover be transiently be removed. The management company does the removal and reinstall. If you get birds the yacht management cleans it up and rigs deterrent measures. If you get bugs the same. If you’re in the tropics usually you get a small home air conditioner to keep things dry and prevent mildew or mold. The yacht management makes sure it’s doing its thing . Stuff like that. Whatever you want they’ll do with boat visits as often as you want. Also if you’re going to have projects done in your absence they control access to your boat and you can have them supervise the job. It’s totally open ended. They’ll do as much or little as you request. We’ve left the boat at times in a slip for a month. Then arranged with the yard and a yacht manager for no visits but rather to make sure there would be meaningful immediate intervention if anything bad happened in our absence. Service was to keep an eye on the boat. Make sure she was plugged in and floating on her lines. They were in the Marina daily anyways so no biggie for them and cost reflected that. Remote monitoring has changed things as a evolution from security boat systems now available. Some systems are very comprehensive. But you still may want a live body as backup.
Some insurance companies want you to have some form of yacht management so you need to talk to your broker about that. We did get a break on our premium.

 

[Nialltom]

A nice dream totally impractical. The problem is the two kids and the wife.
I recommend that you charter a boat for 3 weeks and find out at the end of the trip how much futher boating each member of the family is willing to stomach. You may but they may prefer to do other things.

Don't ask me how I found out this.

Rolo

I appreciate the reality check. This seems to be the most practical use of chartering for those who eventually want to use a boat 2-3 months a year or more - charter for a few weeks, a few different times before buying to make sure everybody enjoys the experience. And be honest with each other.

This would be my plan, and my query here is meant to assume that my family is ‘on board’ with everything. However, you’re experience is a good reminder that should not be taken as a given by me.

 

[Nialltom]

We've also never been too happy with the condition of boats that we've chartered even when getting them from well known companies. We've had significant issues that impacted the enjoyment of our charters. Then there's the added stress of operating an unfamiliar boat.

These are the same thoughts I have, and has been my experience as well. When trying to sell the wife on living on a boat for months at a time, and the only experience on offer to mimic this is a beat up charter boat where the water pressure stinks, the stove works half the time, she doesn’t like the galley layout, or tiny stateroom, no stabilization so the ride is worse, etc., it makes it difficult for her to buy into that. I can envision the realties and improvements of having our own boat, but she may not be able to as easily. Although admittedly, it does give a better idea than not chartering so I would pursue it regardless and hope for the best. My worry is that it could give an inaccurately negative idea of the liveaboard experience.

And I still have not heard a good argument for chartering instead of owning when you want to be out for months at a time, given the costs for chartering an equivalently sized boat.

 

[OldDan1943]

And I still have not heard a good argument for chartering instead of owning when you want to be out for months at a time, given the costs for chartering an equivalently sized boat.

Chartering allows you to try different style boats and saloon/galley lay out.
I cannot stress enough, look at the hanging closet space. If you are gone for a month, you will want to take some 'good' clothes too. Remember, the spouse cannot (for some unknown reason) wear the same dress twice.

 

[BandB]

Chartering allows you to try different style boats and saloon/galley lay out.
I cannot stress enough, look at the hanging closet space. If you are gone for a month, you will want to take some 'good' clothes too. Remember, the spouse cannot (for some unknown reason) wear the same dress twice.

Wifey B: And good spouses like me don't allow hubby to wear dirty clothes either.

And don't forget shoes. Got to have bunches of them.

Look at areas like showers too. Many are tough on tall men and hard to fit two people into them as well.

Galley storage is often a challenge as well.

 

[OldDan1943]

Wifey B: And good spouses like me don't allow hubby to wear dirty clothes either.

And don't forget shoes. Got to have bunches of them.

Look at areas like showers too. Many are tough on tall men and hard to fit two people into them as well.

Galley storage is often a challenge as well.

Washer/dryer for my clothes, she likes to hand wash her clothes. Washer/dryer eats her clothes.
Shower, front to back, switch (wish I had bench seat in the shower)
Galley storage, nooks and crannies. Wifey, you and I must learn there are grocery stores every where. Planned menus. I do wish I had a better fridge/freezer. But, that's another story. If necessary I will buy a 12vt freezer

 

[Nialltom]

I know it's a wild ideas, but I could argue to find a "kind of partner".....

Not really a partner, but a caretaker that would share the boat with you, take care of it and use it himself. It would be a joint venture, and he'd have a little skin in the game but might not want to afford a full time Fleming.

I've done that with aircraft, but not boats, and it's worked out excellent. Had a plane that I didn't want to "sit" while I was on extended boating. Found a guy who also wanted to use it and had the ability to maintain it. I got him qualified to fly it, made him a heck of a deal to use it and it worked great. When I came back, it was ready for me without any issues, and in a known condition. He would do the minor maintenance and cleaning but we hired out major stuff. Also, my friend would reposition it for me which also worked out great. The best benefit with this is keeping it running and used, and keeping the maintenance up.

Now, finding that guy might be a challenge, but bet there are plenty qualified right here on this forum. Heck, if my boating needs were a bit different, I'd consider an arrangement like that. A 50+ ft boat is just too big for my part of the world.

I enjoy doing some of the upkeep and maintenance work, but hire out the hard stuff.... but I keep track of it. Works for me.

This seems like the ideal situation...IF a trustworthy caretaker could be found. That person would also need experience on boats of the same size or close. This could be a very difficult setup to find.

It seems that some folks have been able to make boat partnerships work and it has turned out to be a good thing and allowed both people to have and use a boat they otherwise wouldn’t be able to, or like in my case, relieve the burden of a portion of the ownership in the management and maintenance of the boat.

However, many others seem to strongly caution against it and have or know somebody that has horror stories about it. It seems to be like everything else - you get wildly varying opinions and experiences, and so you end up not knowing if it would be the right thing to do or not.

However, perhaps many of those horror stories come from equal 50/50 partnerships where either side gets stuck because both have an equal say and want different things. What you describe above sounds like more of an 80/20 or 70/30 type setup, where the owner provides the boat and the capital to fund any major boat work needed. The ‘caretaker’ provides ongoing routine maintenance work himself, is local to the boat and can check on it regularly, has access to it for use a certain amount of days while the owner doesn’t need it, oversees any work the yard may be doing, etc.

A lot more details to work out there, but I could see this being an attractive setup for both parties. The owner has final say in all time on the boat, where it goes, the work that gets done, etc. The caretaker looks after it and keeps it in shape, for the benefit of using it himself a certain amount of time. This also gets the boat out on the water and being used semi-regularly. The trick is finding someone trustworthy with enough experience on boats and boat systems, who enjoys working on those, and otherwise wouldn’t be able to get into something like a Fleming, but would really appreciate that kind of boat and having access to it.

I know there are holes to poke in this setup too, but to my mind, it seems to have a chance at success if the right person is found, primarily because 1 person is making the major decisions, instead of the 2 in a traditional boat partnership.

 

[OldDan1943]

boat-partner might be close to a time-share.
Be real careful please.

 

[Hippocampus]

We boat shared through several boats while I was working. It was a ideal situation. A close friend and fellow physician. Our call schedules didn’t match up except on rare occasions and we’d purposely used vacation time to do Marion or Newport Bermuda races or cruise together. When together we’d alternate who would be captain. Before the partnership we both had decades of blue water under our keels. It was great to have that extra hand when doing maintenance chores. It was great to have one excellent crew already lined up for races. It was good for the boat to be used not just sit which is so hard on a boat. It was great to share costs which allowed us to get some very fast, excellent boats. Given our call schedules didn’t line up it was no imposition to share. The partnership only ended because he got colon cancer and died.
The success of this and any partnership is CLEAR rules. A totally kindred spirit who you would take along anyway even if you weren’t partners. Someone at your level of skill set or a bit better. Enviablyyoumlearn from each other. Someone with similar resources so they won’t be a drag if you want to spend boat bucks or needle you to spend more than you want to. After he passed went halvies on a one off ocean racer. Although I did make some conversions to make it suitable for cruising it was a racer at heart so lots of spaghetti and things to tune or break. My partner had maybe half a dozen more zeros in his net worth. He messed up or broke things, rarely used the boat and rather write a check then do anything on her. I bought him out after one season. He had another boat built for him. He’d fly to it on occasion but hired crew did everything. He had that boat do crewed charters to defray costs. We remain friends and he lets me drive his race cars on track days once in awhile which is big fun.
Partnerships are a high risk relationship. Go into one eyes wide open.

 

[mvweebles]

Partnerships on recreational assets (boats, RVs, cabins, whatever) are a challenge - intentions are always very good, but follow-through is compromised. There is always a disconnect on who is doing more work, who is using the boat more, who didn't clean-up after their debauchery the previous weekend.

That said, there are two models I have seen work: First, the benevolent dictator model. He/she takes control of the partnership, makes the bulk of the decisions, and just sends a bill that each partner pays with little room to argue. Second is the external manager model - similar to how charter yachts are setup, the boat is professionally managed and maintained with the costs split.

Benevolent Dictator model works best, but succession planning sucks. Fun while it lasts.

Peter

 

[BandB]

Partnerships on recreational assets (boats, RVs, cabins, whatever) are a challenge - intentions are always very good, but follow-through is compromised. There is always a disconnect on who is doing more work, who is using the boat more, who didn't clean-up after their debauchery the previous weekend.

That said, there are two models I have seen work: First, the benevolent dictator model. He/she takes control of the partnership, makes the bulk of the decisions, and just sends a bill that each partner pays with little room to argue. Second is the external manager model - similar to how charter yachts are setup, the boat is professionally managed and maintained with the costs split.

Benevolent Dictator model works best, but succession planning sucks. Fun while it lasts.

Peter

Have a clear exit strategy. In the most common type of partnership, they're known as divorces but only clear with good pre-nuptial agreements.

In a business partnership (and this is most definitely a business partnership being discussed) exit strategies are rarely outlined up front. Now, by law, a partnership is terminated when either partner withdraws. However, what becomes of assets and expenses and debts is not clear. Without an agreement, all assets must be sold and the proceeds split. More common is either partner can pick a price and the other partner decide whether to buy the share of the one picking or sell his share to him at that price. Also, one huge pitfall to avoid is ever allowing a partner to sell his share or transfer it to someone else. This is so common in LLC's and often so disastrous.

I prefer what I'd call making someone a non-equity partner which is really more just an operating agreement. The partner has no ownership in the boat but agrees to do X, Y, and Z and pay X% of A, B and C in turn for use of the boat X number of days a year. Either party can end the agreement at any time with no recourse.

 

[FF]

100 years ago the solution would have been to have a "man" aboard.

He would wipe down the varnish every AM , wash and maintain the boat while living aboard .Frequently a fwd cabin would have its own deck entrance.

He would provision the boat and sometimes be cook.

With hundreds of employee laws today , I think this lifestyle is gone forever , unless someone owns a large enough corp. to hire a ghost.

 

[Iggy]

Well to be honest I have NOT read every post. I think you need to do most of the jobs your self within reason just once.

Is something happens and it will! You will need to know how to handle it. For me the cost is high so I do most of the work myself. If my pockets were deep enough, I would have someone else do it. They could most likely do it better and faster than I. But than I would never learn!

One thing I don't want to do is shirk wrapping.

My last boat, I replaced the belts as a maintenance thing. Never did it before on this engine and it took me a more time than I thought. On one trip, the belt broke! It took me a little more than half the time than before to replace it. I knew what needed to be done. Sounds odd but true.

 

[Hippocampus]

Great wisdom in Iggys post.

 

[OldDan1943]

As I told one boat worker, "Tide to the dock, it's your job. Out to sea, it's my job."

 

[AlanT]

100 years ago the solution would have been to have a "man" aboard.

He would wipe down the varnish every AM , wash and maintain the boat while living aboard .Frequently a fwd cabin would have its own deck entrance.

He would provision the boat and sometimes be cook.

With hundreds of employee laws today , I think this lifestyle is gone forever , unless someone owns a large enough corp. to hire a ghost.

You are probably right. I remember in 2006 or 2007 I was moored in the BVIs next to 'Wintje' (sp?), Walter Cronkite's beautiful yacht. It had a full- time crewman on board and we spent hours chatting with him as he laid on yet another coat of varnish. There was a girl as well, not sure if she was also crew or a girlfriend.

 

[BandB]

You are probably right. I remember in 2006 or 2007 I was moored in the BVIs next to 'Wintje' (sp?), Walter Cronkite's beautiful yacht. It had a full- time crewman on board and we spent hours chatting with him as he laid on yet another coat of varnish. There was a girl as well, not sure if she was also crew or a girlfriend.

People still have crew taking care of boats similarly. Nothing that's not still done and not impacted by any changes in employment laws.