Jabsco 37010- 1090 head- backflow solenoid necessary?

[dcdunbar]

Happy New Year! My wife's new year resolution was to get me to fix the head smell on my 1978 GB42. We have two Jabsco electric heads fed by salt water in Fl and its simply amazing how beautiful they smell after sitting for a few weeks.

So, a couple of questions... The manual on the Jabsco 37010- 1090 states that a backflow is integrated into the pump. However, I would like to see if anyone else trusts this statement or has had experiences (good or bad) w converting to fresh water.

Also, on my GB42 does anyone have an idea how to tap into the fresh water supply on the boat as the hoses seem to be PEX like black plastic but worried that I wont be able to splice into the fresh water system w/out a leak

thanks so much
David

 

[C lectric]

Few questions:
When you leave the boat do you fresh water flush the toilets?

If not you must. The wee critters and plant life as such in the seawater will die after you leave. The decomposition will stink especially when you next use the head since you are disturbing it. I always flush about 1 gal. of fresh water through mine. You may need more depending upon the hose lengths as that will determine the water volume. Mine is quite short so the one gal. is good enough.


Does the system smell after a day or two when you are actively using it?

Anti backflow valves get covered with sea debris and deposits. Those deposits will prevent a full seal. THe water in the hoses after will slowly bleed back some of the waste water into the toilet.

Another source can be the hoses themselves from permeation of the hose wall. They do have a lifetime especially if left full of waste when away.

Also do a search for Peggy Hall and her advice. She is an expert at this.

 

[Comodave]

Get Peggie Halls book on boat smells, it is well worth the price. Search Amazon for it.

 

[C lectric]

Agree
https://www.amazon.ca/New-Get-Rid-Boat-Odors-ebook/dp/B01BW2ZSTW

 

[HopCar]

The 1090 have a rubber impeller pump. If you connect it to your pressurized water system I bet water will leak past the impeller. You probably want to switch to toilets designed to work with your pressure water system.

If you want to keep your toilets, can you install a water tank dedicated to supplying water to the toilets?

 

[FF]

A back flow device is needed to prevent your toilet water from getting into the fresh water source.


"Stuff happens " that can make folks really sick.

 

[mvweebles]

This is a raw-water head and cannot be adapted to onboard potable use. Further, to Hopcar's point, it should not be attached to a pressurized system.

Please see the manual:

https://marinepartssource.com/media...hments/attachment_file/3/7/37010_series_2.pdf

Do not connect the toilet to the vessels potable water for its source of supply. To do so can result in contamination of potable water supply. If fresh water is preferred for flushing, provide a separate fresh water tank to supply water to the toilet only.
DO NOT CONNECT INLET HOSE TO A PRESSURIZED WATER SYSTEM.​

 

[Cigatoo]

Short story is you have 2 options.
Turn off the salt water feed and flush the head with fresh water. We use the shower in the forward head to add fresh water when flushing. Fwd head is rarely used.

Change the toilet to a freshwater toilet specifically made for pressurized fresh water. (Worth every penny) We have a Dometic Master Flush in the aft head and absolutely love it! https://ardemco.com/sealand-dometic...Z9HgqQT2NubGKPn_RwsqIEIZ5iJ1tpI8aAjHXEALw_wcB

Either of these 2 options will solve salt water odor HOWEVER they will not solve odors coming from the plumbing down stream if you have old porous hoses or waste tank issues.

 

[backinblue]

Peggy will probably weigh in at some point and correct me if I'm wrong. I agree that you should not plumb your potable water directly to your toilet inlet for several reasons, but I still don't see why you cannot convert a sewater toilet to fresh. On my boat, the fresh water is tee'd off from the head sink faucet and feeds the attached solenoid valve which then feeds the toilet. It only feeds water when the toilet is flushed and the solenoid activated. You can also manually hold a button to activate and fill the bowl if needed to flush out the hoses, etc.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002NSU5R0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

As others and Peggy will advise, when it comes to odors, you need to first determine where they are coming from. The head? hoses? tank? inside the boat, outside the boat, only when flushing, etc. The cause will determine the fix, but I also recommend a freshwater head over seawater.

 

[mvweebles]

Peggy will probably weigh in at some point and correct me if I'm wrong. I agree that you should not plumb your potable water directly to your toilet inlet for several reasons, but I still don't see why you cannot convert a sewater toilet to fresh. On my boat, the fresh water is tee'd off from the head sink faucet and feeds the attached solenoid valve which then feeds the toilet. It only feeds water when the toilet is flushed and the solenoid activated. You can also manually hold a button to activate and fill the bowl if needed to flush out the hoses, etc.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002NSU5R0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

As others and Peggy will advise, when it comes to odors, you need to first determine where they are coming from. The head? hoses? tank? inside the boat, outside the boat, only when flushing, etc. The cause will determine the fix, but I also recommend a freshwater head over seawater.

Solenoid valve may reduce problem of pressurized water in an intake that is designed for non-pressurized. May even reduce risk of cross-contamination. But not sure "reduced risk" is enough for me given the consequences of being wrong. Keep in mind, the water line on this head is below bowl-level thus the risk of cross-contamination. Household toilets have water inlets above the bowl and use a separate tank, much in the way Hopcar suggests and Jabsco instructions specify for fresh water.

This head is not designed for the use the OP asked about.

Peter

 

[backinblue]

Solenoid valve may reduce problem of pressurized water in an intake that is designed for non-pressurized. May even reduce risk of cross-contamination. But not sure "reduced risk" is enough for me given the consequences of being wrong. Keep in mind, the water line on this head is below bowl-level thus the risk of cross-contamination. Household toilets have water inlets above the bowl and use a separate tank, much in the way Hopcar suggests and Jabsco instructions specify for fresh water.

This head is not designed for the use the OP asked about.

Peter

On my boat, this is how it was plumbed from the factory. The solenoid, which contains a backflow preventer, is mounted several feet above the toilet. It's hard to imagine a scenario where cross contamination could happen remembering that water from the toilet would have to overcome gravity, go through a preventer valve and solenoid where the other side is pressurized.
Actually, when these solenoid/valves fail, you will get a toilet that overflows with freshwater, not the other way around.

 

[High Wire]

If that head only has one seal between the seawater side and the waste side of the pump then do NOT in any way connect it to your freshwater system. The seal will leak and contaminate your drinking water with poo.

 

[mvweebles]

On my boat, this is how it was plumbed from the factory. The solenoid, which contains a backflow preventer, is mounted several feet above the toilet. It's hard to imagine a scenario where cross contamination could happen remembering that water from the toilet would have to overcome gravity, go through a preventer valve and solenoid where the other side is pressurized.
Actually, when these solenoid/valves fail, you will get a toilet that overflows with freshwater, not the other way around.

I hate to belabor threads, but this is important. While having solenoid far away reduces any risk, it doesn't make risk zero. Issue is the inlet waterline to the toilet is below the bowl meaning there is transfer risk be it on the vanes of an impellor, gate of a valve, whatever. The germs may be less likely to propagate in the intake line due to long length, but risk is not zero. A physical break such as designed into every household toilet makes risk zero. Even commercial toilets with the big chrome valve above the toilet has a physical break - water enters from the top, not the bottom.

If the builder of your boat took a raw-water head with instructions such as are in the Jabsco manual and connected to potable fresh water system, they did it on their own and were wrong to do so. Easy for them to do as they won't have to endure a couple days of 'bad-shrimp' tethering to a head.

To the OP - you can reduce risk of cross-contamination, but not eliminate it. As Dirty Harry famously said, "you have to ask yourself, do you feel lucky?"

Peter

EDIT - you may be able to divert the water inlet line to fresh water (solenoid required) so it is not used by the same macerator pump as the waste. The solenoid valves are a failure item, so remember to turn-off fresh water when you leave the boat.

 

[backinblue]

My toilet manual says it can be plumbed to either fresh or salt water, BUT it must be connected to a pressurized supply. I still fail to see how failing backflow valves (there's probably at least 1 at the toilet and one at the solenoid) can contaminate my fresh water when that is a pressurized supply. If valves were leaking, wouldn't water flow from the pressurized supply into the toilet, not against the pressure?

 

[mvweebles]

My toilet manual says it can be plumbed to either fresh or salt water, BUT it must be connected to a pressurized supply. I still fail to see how failing backflow valves (there's probably at least 1 at the toilet and one at the solenoid) can contaminate my fresh water when that is a pressurized supply. If valves were leaking, wouldn't water flow from the pressurized supply into the toilet, not against the pressure?

The Jabsco head the OP has is not designed for freshwater use, and not designed for pressurized water. Look at the picture I posted in previous post (on edit - you may not have seen it when you replied). The macerator pump also activates the raw-water pump for flush. I'm sure there is a decent bio/eco-system under that plastic cover.

The head the OP has is just not designed for what he would like to do. Full stop. Can it be adapted? Probably in the way I noted above. Is it a good idea? Probably not - there are excellent heads available that will do the job.

Peter

 

[backinblue]

I agree, and worth the investment to buy the right toilet if planning to convert. However that could only be part of the odor problem or maybe not the problem at all. Either way, I'm in favor of a freshwater flush, but that doesn't mean no odor problems still occur.

 

[HeadMistress]

The Jabsco 37010 is a sea water toilet that has an integral intake and discharge pump/motor assembly. Jabsco 37010 Series Electric Toilet (see the exploded drawing and parts list on page 3).

It does not use a solenoid valve because those are only needed in the intake line on toilets designed to use pressurized fresh water. They don't have intake pumps.. the solenoid valve acts like a faucet--opening to allow water to flow into the bowl when the flush button is pushed, closing when the flush button is released. However, if the toilet is installed at or below waterline, there should be a vented loop in the intake line between the pump and the bowl as shown in mvweeble's post #13. The loop needs to be at least 6-8" above waterline, which will require replacing the short piece of hose the mfr uses to connect the with hoses long enough to put it that high.

The "built-in backflow preventer" is the joker valve--part #11 in the drawing...a rubber cup-shaped device that has a slit in the bottom of the "cup" and "lips" on the outside of it located in the discharge fitting (part #13) and because the slit is stretched with use, gradually turning it into a hole that can no longer block backflow. It should be replaced annually, or at least every two years--one of many things on a boat that should be done as "preventive maintenance" because it prevents problems.

This toilet--nor any other sea water toilet--should ever be connected to fresh water system. Flushing by pouring water into the bowl lets the intake impeller run dry...dry friction heat will destroy it.

--Peggie

 

[rwidman]

Do Not Ever attempt to connect a toilet designed for raw water to your boat's potable water system. The result will be "cross contamination", a situation where non-potable water (in this case, sewage) mixes with the potable water.

If you want to flush this head with potable water, run water from the sink into a container and pour that into the toilet to flush it.

If you have the room, you can install an extra water tank, fill fitting and vent, dedicated to flushing the toilet as long as there is no connection to the potable water system.

If you want to do it right, replace the toilet with one designed by the manufacturer for connection to the potable water system.

 

[backinblue]

This toilet--nor any other sea water toilet--should ever be connected to fresh water system. Flushing by pouring water into the bowl lets the intake impeller run dry...dry friction heat will destroy it.

--Peggie

This is an important point I thought of and I'm glad Peggy confirmed it. I know that many people use a shower head or some other way to flush a gallon or 2 of fresh water through the system, but as Peggie says, it's not good for the intake impeller.

 

[C lectric]

Ignore my first post. I missed an important point. I can't correct my comment.
If a moderator can delete it please do so. Post # 2

 

[Sea Fever WNK]

We are owners of GB/42 1985 #913. Had the same smell after switching to TECMA Head and Fresh water, every time we flushed the heads we choked on Methane back drafting through the boat and downwind. All Hoses Changed out all treatments tried, nothing worked.
When we decided to cut out the Port Fuel Tan and replace the Onan Gen-Set, I looked at my wife and said HAPPY BIRTHDAY, I am going to build you a New Holding Tank.
Since the holding tank was below the Gen set, it was the right time to get the only original tank left in the boat “out”!!!
What did we find? The Holding tank was angled forward at a 5 degree angle, the pick up Tubes were at the aft end of the tank and they were 4-5 inches from the bottom of the tank.
So when the 50 Gallon Tank was Pumped out, only 30 gallons were removed the rest was left”just for the smell of it”.
Happy Birthday Honey..I fabricated a new baffless tank out of G10 50 Gallon capacity, and built Glass cribbing to angle the tank 3.5 degrees aft and built a new series of vent and pick up tubes with fiberglass tubes.. painted all insides with Brightsides Urethane, 3/8” G-10.
Nothing but daisies when we push the flush button now! Happy Wife Happy Life.
We were in the water for 6 months lived aboard for 3.5 months we loved everything about being aboard for so long in Mass. Holding Tank pumped once a week. It was sweet and makes our G/B 42 a special vessel for us..
My experience would send me right to the holding tank if I were looking to move to a different boat in the future and really investigate it, and plumbing and pick up tubes that go with it..hoses need changing very 5-10 years IMHO, as they eventually become part of the problem…
Safest place to be is on the water!!! Hope this helps. It feels good to have replaced every tank in our boat water tanks went from aluminum to Stainless, Fuel from rusted Steel to Aluminum with Daytank set up with Keenan Polishing System…
WNK

 

[dcdunbar]

Wow-
Thanks so much for all the input. I had no idea I would get so many replies but I guess odors on a boat are one of the more unpleasant items to deal with when owning a boat. I am glad that I originally asked the question and didnt plumb my fresh water to the Jabso head. I will be ordering a new set of heads soon, likely Tecma, and will installing onto my fresh water system.

One more question- once the head is plumbed in does anybody drink the water from the tanks after installed. I understand there is an integral solenoid on a pressurized system but still there is always a risk I guess...?

Thanks again and very happy to be a member of this forum
David

 

[backinblue]

Wow-
Thanks so much for all the input. I had no idea I would get so many replies but I guess odors on a boat are one of the more unpleasant items to deal with when owning a boat. I am glad that I originally asked the question and didnt plumb my fresh water to the Jabso head. I will be ordering a new set of heads soon, likely Tecma, and will installing onto my fresh water system.

One more question- once the head is plumbed in does anybody drink the water from the tanks after installed. I understand there is an integral solenoid on a pressurized system but still there is always a risk I guess...?

Thanks again and very happy to be a member of this forum
David

Personally, I don't worry about it. I don't think there is any real risk if you have a properly installed freshwater toilet. However, I don't generally drink from the faucet regardless. I find it easy enough to buy some gallons of generic spring water for coffee and drinking as well as regular bottled water. I might think differently if I was a liveaboard or cruising for many weeks at a time. Still the water we consume while on board is relatively minimal. Wine is another story!

 

[FF]

"One more question- once the head is plumbed in does anybody drink the water from the tanks after installed. I understand there is an integral solenoid on a pressurized system but still there is always a risk I guess...?"

Most folks have no problem using the FW system on board for drinking.

The big hassle is some town water tastes like drained swimming pool water.

Taste what you might fill the tanks with first , or buy a bottle of someone else's tap water for more than you pay for fuel.

 

[backinblue]

You can buy generic spring water by the gallon for about $2. Several of those go a long way for coffee and drinking for me. 16oz Poland Spring bottled water at Costco comes out to about $1/gal

 

[HeadMistress]

Toilets designed to use onboard fresh water must use PRESSURIZED fresh water because that prevents any risk to the potable water supply. The solenoid has nothing to do with that...it simply acts as a "faucet" that opens to allow water to flow to the toilet when the flush mechanism is activated, closes when the flush mechanism is released, same as any sink faucet does.


If your fresh water tastes or smells funky, it's because the fresh water system is in need of recommissioning (cleaning) to kill the molds and fungi in the tank and plumbing. My book includes instructions for doing that....if you don't have my book or want it, you can also find them on many RV sites.


--Peggie

 

[jleonard]

I converted a Jabsco raw water flush head to use fresh water on my Albin. It was pretty easy to do.
I had replaced one head with a Sea Era fresh water unit so I knew what I needed to convert the old Jabsco electric head.
I bought a solenoid valve and a backflow preventer. Mounted both per the Sea Era instructions.
Then I removed the motor unit and removed the rubber impeller. The two hose barbs were the perfect inside diameter to tap for 2 1/8 NPT pipe plugs to seal off the impeller cavity.
Then I re-installed the motor.
I used this head for 15 years and never had a problem with it other than changing the joker vale a few times. It flushed as quiet and as good as the Sea Era.

 

[HopCar]

I converted a Jabsco raw water flush head to use fresh water on my Albin. It was pretty easy to do.
I had replaced one head with a Sea Era fresh water unit so I knew what I needed to convert the old Jabsco electric head.
I bought a solenoid valve and a backflow preventer. Mounted both per the Sea Era instructions.
Then I removed the motor unit and removed the rubber impeller. The two hose barbs were the perfect inside diameter to tap for 2 1/8 NPT pipe plugs to seal off the impeller cavity.
Then I re-installed the motor.
I used this head for 15 years and never had a problem with it other than changing the joker vale a few times. It flushed as quiet and as good as the Sea Era.

Very clever!