Kabola Mystery

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mikehar

mikehar

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2019
Messages
107
Location
USA
Vessel Name
Gallivant
Vessel Make
Northern Marine 64
I have recently acquired a new boat (yay!) and am delving into her mysteries. The previous owner let the boat freeze which cracked several of the MSR heat exchangers in the diesel heating system. I have replaced those, fired up the system and all works well except that not all of the units are getting hot water. They all seem to have water pressure.

This boat has four loops: lower deck, upper deck, hot water tank and bypass. Only the lower deck loop is getting hot water. All valves (that I have found) are open.

I'm operating under the assumption that I still haven't found a valve (or two), but I have spent *hours* on this and I just don't see a place where I'm missing a valve. Is there something else I might be missing?
 
Perhaps an air bubble trapped somewhere? I’ve seen this in chill water AC systems. Sometimes an air bubble can really trick you into believing there is a blockage. Just a wild guess.
 
I agree that an air lock seems the most likely cause. If the system is valved to allow it, try operating with only one loop open at a time, forcing all water through that loop. That might be enough to push any air through. There are also likely bleed valves at the air handlers, and you could try cracking them one at a time to see if you get any air out.
 
Thanks, that makes sense. There are bleed valves on the air handlers, for some reason I thought that the water would push the air out. I just watched three videos on why that isn't so. : )

FWIW, I have valved off the working loop before and that didn't fix the problem.

I'll give the bleeder valves a shot next time I'm on the boat.
 
I agree with trapped air likely being the culprit. I had the same problem with my Espar system after changing an air handler. I purged the air and the problem was solved, circulation resumed.
 
"supposed to be" was the operative phrase here.
 
Thermostats in some rooms?
 
I can't contribute to helping you on your coolant issue but will comment on your vessel - beautiful! Have always loved the Northern Marines, and there is a fellow 64 here in the marina at Campbell River - wow!
 
mikehar said:
I'm operating under the assumption that I still haven't found a valve (or two), but I have spent *hours* on this and I just don't see a place where I'm missing a valve. Is there something else I might be missing?
Click to expand...

On our system each loop has two manifolds with feed and return valves on each one. How is your system plumbed?

Possibly the PO had a line or heater leak and bypassed or plugged a heater? Old coolant can plug off a heater core too. Or mixed coolants causing gelling to occur. Or ???
 
No heating system diagram in the boats paperwork?
 
mikehar said:
I have recently acquired a new boat (yay!) and am delving into her mysteries. The previous owner let the boat freeze which cracked several of the MSR heat exchangers in the diesel heating system. I have replaced those, fired up the system and all works well except that not all of the units are getting hot water. They all seem to have water pressure.

This boat has four loops: lower deck, upper deck, hot water tank and bypass. Only the lower deck loop is getting hot water. All valves (that I have found) are open.

I'm operating under the assumption that I still haven't found a valve (or two), but I have spent *hours* on this and I just don't see a place where I'm missing a valve. Is there something else I might be missing?
Click to expand...

Is this a Hydronic system? The last hydronic system I bled, we ended up using a pressure cap on the reservoir with a hand pump to pressurize the system while bleeding, no amount of bleeding without pressurization worked. The use of the pressure cap and pump was noted in the manual to be used if there were difficulties during the bleeding process.
 
Pressurizing the reservoir and selectively closing zone valves and opening bleeder valves was the only way I could get all the air out of my hydronic system. The hot water heater was the hardest, had to remove a hose at the highest point. I also check the pH of the coolant yearly to make sure it's OK.
 
High Wire said:
No heating system diagram in the boats paperwork?
Click to expand...

There is a schematic, not an as built. It was informative but not completely accurate. It did give me an idea as to where to look and how many loops were in the system.
 
porman said:
Pressurizing the reservoir and selectively closing zone valves and opening bleeder valves was the only way I could get all the air out of my hydronic system. The hot water heater was the hardest, had to remove a hose at the highest point. I also check the pH of the coolant yearly to make sure it's OK.
Click to expand...

I have a pretty good idea as to how I can bleed the air handler loops, but I don't know yet how I'm going to do the water heater. I have to pull out the dryer first to get to that one. Which is a two man job, and my wife has informed me that she is not one of them.
 
Another thing you could try is to use an external pump to give the circulating water a bit more of a push in hopes of flushing out any trapped air. How easy or hard this is will depend on how you system is plumbed, and where/if you have service ports for hose hookups. This is also how you typically add antifreeze.


So far I have found that a strong pump, and using the systems valves to direct all the flow through one loop at a time will develop enough water flow to flush out air. It's also a good way to confirm that you do indeed have flow through each loop. There is still a possibility that you have some sort of blockage.
 
OP, your profile puts you in Olga Wa. Where do your keep your boat?

There is a Kabola tech in Anacortes with an outstanding reputation. Costica, not sure about the spelling. I've not done business with him but the yard techs I've hired in Anacortes all speak very highly of him. A call to the Anacortes Kabola dealer will probably put you in touch with him.

http://www.marinetec-us.com/contact-us/
 
Portage_Bay said:
OP, your profile puts you in Olga Wa. Where do your keep your boat?

There is a Kabola tech in Anacortes with an outstanding reputation. Costica, not sure about the spelling. I've not done business with him but the yard techs I've hired in Anacortes all speak very highly of him. A call to the Anacortes Kabola dealer will probably put you in touch with him.

MarineTec US | Contact Us
Click to expand...


Yes, good point. Costica IS MarineTec. He is the US distributor for Kabola, and very knowledgable. I have no direct experience with him, but a bunch indirectly, and everyone I know speaks highly of him. Chances are good that he designed your system.
 
twistedtree said:
Yes, good point. Costica IS MarineTec. He is the US distributor for Kabola, and very knowledgable. I have no direct experience with him, but a bunch indirectly, and everyone I know speaks highly of him. Chances are good that he designed your system.
Click to expand...

FWIW, I have been trying to get a hold of Costica for several weeks, which is why I'm doing the work. Several people that I work with have also been trying to get a hold of him. No return calls as of yet.
 
mikehar said:
FWIW, I have been trying to get a hold of Costica for several weeks, which is why I'm doing the work. Several people that I work with have also been trying to get a hold of him. No return calls as of yet.
Click to expand...


OK, that seems unusual. But if that's the case, I'd be looking at other options too. I don't want to work with people who don't want the job.


Emerald Harbor Marine at Elliot Bay Marina in Seattle have a lot of heating system experience, so you could try them if you are still interested in farming it out.
 
mikehar said:
FWIW, I have been trying to get a hold of Costica for several weeks, which is why I'm doing the work. Several people that I work with have also been trying to get a hold of him. No return calls as of yet.
Click to expand...


Unfortunately typical of the pleasure support biz in the PNW. I have the same frustrations with other vendors.
 
If you have access to the bleeders at each bus heater, why not use a hand vacuum pump like you use to bleed brakes? A small hand pump, with a catch canister and a piece of tubing to plug over the bleeder port.
 
I just saw stubones reply I wonder the same and would try that. Are the bleeders opening?
 
Finally got back to the boat today. Bleed the air off of every upper heat exchanger and it started working! Just about then I noticed a strange odor -- bird nest in the exhaust pipe. It's always something.

Thanks for the great advice,
-mike
 
Air lock. Vent the highest point in the loop.

pete
 
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