LED Replacement Bulb

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HiDHo

HiDHo

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I would like to replace my stern running light with a Led bulb. Has anyone found a retailer for the T11 x 44 dimpled festoon Led bulb ? This bulb size is for the series 25 Auqua Signal Running Lights.
 

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Been available for years at west marine.
 
Be sure that the fixture is approved for LED bulbs. To be USCG legal the bulb and fixture have to be approved as a unit. Or so I have been told.

Also I would check Amazon. I changed all my interior bulbs to LED and bought the bulbs at Amazon. Much cheaper.
 
I thought maybe the marinebeam.com link was a winner but the stern light needs 135 degree of 2 mile visibility and maybe half of the 30 leds in the festoon might be visibile, range ? it was dimpled however. None of Wast Marine bulbs are dimpled. I did find a led bulb with the led's inside of cylindrical glass, a copy of the T 11 x 44 but again no dimpled contact ends.
Thanks anyway for the leads, just thought maybe someone was mfg a T 11 x 44 led replacement. The search continues.
 
HiDHo said:
None of Wast Marine bulbs are dimpled. I did find a led bulb with the led's inside of cylindrical glass, a copy of the T 11 x 44 but again no dimpled contact ends.
.
Click to expand...

Ah...so the contacts are points that engage the dimples? If they were "C" shaped clips either style would work. Good luck with the search..
 
I went all LED. Amazon had the best prices. West Marine had one bulb for $24.95 and Amazon had 4 pack with free shipping for $8.95
 
The only place to buy LED bulbs is
Superbrightleds.com
Quality for a great price.
 
Nice selection at superbrightleds.com but no dimpled based festoon bulbs carried in what they offer.
I did find a festoon bulb at Dr Led that has dimpled cap ends that push on over the pointed ends but $43 plus shipping for one bulb !!
 
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You can stick any old bulb in any old fixture and call it a nav light.

Until the accident. Then EVERY minute detail will be examined. If your light doesn't conform to the ColRegs specifications, you'll have some 'spaining to do.

Frankly I don't see any good excuse to keep an old fixture that was made for incandescent bulbs on a boat in 2017. Replace the whole fixture with a sealed, LED, certified fixture. You'll never worry about corroded contacts or burnt-out bulbs again, and you're 100% legal. By boating standards, this peace of mind comes cheap.

I've changed too many bulbs, and cleaned WAY too many contacts, in my life. I never intend to do it again.
 
Thanks Cardude, Ebay was my next go to source. Pactrade brand looks like typical China copy of my Auqua Signal 25 series have you ordered thses lights and what is the quality ? The sellers store has a port, starboard, steaming, anchor and stern light combo for $65 I might check out.
CapTom is right, need to check the specs one stern light stated 1 mile visibility not the 2 required.
 
wwestman said:
Be sure that the fixture is approved for LED bulbs. To be USCG legal the bulb and fixture have to be approved as a unit. Or so I have been told.............
Click to expand...

Yes, that story has been floating around the Internet for a while. If you look at the COLREGS, navigation light standards are based on performance. Basically color, angle and the distance they can be seen.

Considering that old time sailboaters sometimes use kerosene lanterns for navigation lights, I think you will be just fine. The Coast Guard Auxiliary people who do a safety check on my boat each year just look to see if they work. They don't actually look at the brand on the bulbs.
 
HiDHo said:
I thought maybe the marinebeam.com link was a winner but the stern light needs 135 degree of 2 mile visibility and maybe half of the 30 leds in the festoon might be visibile, range ? it was dimpled however. None of Wast Marine bulbs are dimpled. I did find a led bulb with the led's inside of cylindrical glass, a copy of the T 11 x 44 but again no dimpled contact ends.
Thanks anyway for the leads, just thought maybe someone was mfg a T 11 x 44 led replacement. The search continues.
Click to expand...

There are LED bulbs and there are LED bulbs manufactured as marine navigation bulbs. There's a difference and that difference is in the alignment of the individual LEDs.

I used a complete fixture for my stern light because the original was partially obscured by the cockpit cover and needed to be moved anyway. For the others, I used LED assemblies made for use as marine navigation lights rather than LED fixtures because I wanted to maintain the "classic" styling.


BTW: Navigation lights are not the place to "cheap out". $16 for an eBay Chinese light that's well over $50 anywhere else is suspect.
 
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Wesk very true, First thing I did nine years ago when we bought the Manatee was to replace the old, maybe orginal running lights with the Auqua Signals. I guess it's time to do a refit of them again just hope that something better than Leds is not in the pipeline as is true with all the yearly new electronic gadgets.
 
Yeah I'm sore that $15 stern light on eBay is just a cheapy. That was just the first thing I saw.

I recently replaced my two incandescent anchor light bulbs with two glass enclosed, higher quality (maybe) LED bulbs. Before when I anchored out all night with the fridge on and the anchor lights, the Balmar smartguage battery monitor would drop to like 85%, but just with the change of these two bulbs it now stays in the low 90% range. Not a very scientific experiment I realize, but I was surprised how much difference replacing those two bulbs made.
 
cardude01 said:
Yeah I'm sore that $15 stern light on eBay is just a cheapy. That was just the first thing I saw.

I recently replaced my two incandescent anchor light bulbs with two glass enclosed, higher quality (maybe) LED bulbs. Before when I anchored out all night with the fridge on and the anchor lights, the Balmar smartguage battery monitor would drop to like 85%, but just with the change of these two bulbs it now stays in the low 90% range. Not a very scientific experiment I realize, but I was surprised how much difference replacing those two bulbs made.
Click to expand...

I can believe it. Those bulbs on my boat are 25watts each. That's 2 amps each x 10 hours = 40 amp hours! LED bulbs would be in the .2amp range or only 4 amp hours for the same amount of time.

I'm also in the market for good quality LED replacements for nav bulbs.

Ken
 
WesK said:
Yes, that story has been floating around the Internet for a while. If you look at the COLREGS, navigation light standards are based on performance. Basically color, angle and the distance they can be seen.
Click to expand...

Exactly. And the old fixtures are engineered to meet those specs based on the size, shape, brightness and color of the filament of the specified bulb.

Go outside those specs, and it doesn't conform. A bank of LEDs, no matter how bright, are not the same size and shape as a filament. The lens of the old fixture will NOT focus the beam along the right arc of visibility at the right intensity. Colored lenses assume a certain color light coming from a filament. The regulations are very specific on this stuff.

WesK said:
Considering that old time sailboaters sometimes use kerosene lanterns for navigation lights, I think you will be just fine. The Coast Guard Auxiliary people who do a safety check on my boat each year just look to see if they work. They don't actually look at the brand on the bulbs.
Click to expand...

The Auxiliary is not trained or expected to test installed equipment against all the pertinent CFRs and international treaties. Some members don't even bother to check to see if it's got a USCG approval number on it. They fail a lot of boats for lights that don't work. If yours illuminate at all, they're likely to pass you. That's no guarantee of compliance.

I don't think you want to run kerosene lanterns. People do lots of things on the water that I wouldn't do, and many that aren't even legal to do. Following them is not always your best course of action.
 
I found the formula to calculate intensity, no wonder the CG only checks if the lights work. A good read is. theledlight.com, my incandescent 10 watt bulb equals 120 lumens as a guide. Factoring in intensity, ilumination at distances is above my pay grade. I found a 120 lumen, festoon, dimpled light for $20 on line designed for my Aqua Signal lights at marineledshop.com and will change out all my 10 watt bulbs. The stern light burns out often I think because of the heat it generates so a cool led that stays lite 50,000 hours is also a safety consideration. :)
 

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Considering how many boats run around without one or more lights out, installed in positions that can't be seen underway, are the wrong degrees of visibility even though USCG approved, and generally ignored as tools of the COLREGS.....

I am amazed there is any enforcement on them.

The simple test is install one in one nav light and compare it to the other.

On mine, the LEDS were not as bright as my incandescent so they are spares for other things.

This summer I will try the ones that are rated as "approved" replacements and check them.

But why would I buy and mount a whole new fixture for a minimum of $50 per ( more like $80+per) when direct replacement LEDS are $8 a piece?

And the lectures on meeting requirements not required...while on active duty, for 10 years I notified USCG headquarters about manufacturer installed navigation lights not meeting COLREG requirements......until they they finally issued a navigation circulation awhile back making all operators responsible for their lights meeting the COLREGS.
 
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re: LED navigation lights:


Some folks don't understand the light from LEDs. The light from incandescent lamps consists of all the colors. The combination looks white to humans and the light contains enough red and green that the light passing through red and green colored lenses looks red and green.


The light from "white" LEDs is quite different. It still looks white to us but the combination of colors is quite different. If you put a white LED in a red or green navigation fixture behind a red or green lens, there will be very little light output because there is very little red or green light from a "white" LED.


All the above leads up to this: For navigation lights you must use a red or green LED as appropriate even though you already have a red or green lens.


White lights (steaming, anchor and stern) don't have this problem, the lens is clear and a white LED is fine. For that matter, white LEDs are a bit more obvious than incandescent lights which have a yellowish tint.
 
Forget the ColRegs, wavelengths, filament size and shape, and all the math.

For me, a sealed fixture that I'll never have to touch again is worth the extra $42. The peace of mind from being legal is just gravy.

There have been times underway, clinging on to some hand-hold with one hand, trying to clean the terminals on a freakin' nav light fixture, when I'd have paid a LOT more than that.
 
Thanks WesK, I was wonder why white, red and green Led festoon bulbs I found where sold that way. When I place my order I'll order 2 white along with one green and red bulb. Question they offer two choices in white, one warm white and one in cool white. I would think since the stern and steaming light have white lens that the cool white would be the right color, what your take onthe two colors ? Cool white is depicted as white and warm white as a yellowish tinted white.

psneeld, I agree, to replace my lights with maintenance free ( meaning throw away if it quits working) led running lights is $800 + shipping for the four lights .
I can get four led bulbs for $80.
 
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WesK said:
re: LED navigation lights:


Some folks don't understand the light from LEDs. The light from incandescent lamps consists of all the colors. The combination looks white to humans and the light contains enough red and green that the light passing through red and green colored lenses looks red and green.


The light from "white" LEDs is quite different. It still looks white to us but the combination of colors is quite different. If you put a white LED in a red or green navigation fixture behind a red or green lens, there will be very little light output because there is very little red or green light from a "white" LED.


All the above leads up to this: For navigation lights you must use a red or green LED as appropriate even though you already have a red or green lens.


White lights (steaming, anchor and stern) don't have this problem, the lens is clear and a white LED is fine. For that matter, white LEDs are a bit more obvious than incandescent lights which have a yellowish tint.
Click to expand...


WesK, you are correct BUT, depending on the color of the lens and the color of the LED, it is possible that you could could get very little light through that fixture. "Red" is a pretty vague wavelength reference. Is the LED emits light in a very narrow wavelength band, and the lens filters light in a very narrow wavelength band, they better match or you won't see much light at all.
 
WesK said:
re: LED navigation lights:


Some folks don't understand the light from LEDs. The light from incandescent lamps consists of all the colors. The combination looks white to humans and the light contains enough red and green that the light passing through red and green colored lenses looks red and green.


The light from "white" LEDs is quite different. It still looks white to us but the combination of colors is quite different. If you put a white LED in a red or green navigation fixture behind a red or green lens, there will be very little light output because there is very little red or green light from a "white" LED.


All the above leads up to this: For navigation lights you must use a red or green LED as appropriate even though you already have a red or green lens.


White lights (steaming, anchor and stern) don't have this problem, the lens is clear and a white LED is fine. For that matter, white LEDs are a bit more obvious than incandescent lights which have a yellowish tint.
Click to expand...
Here's a graph showing the spectra for different light sources including incandescent and warm and cool white LEDs. The scales are relative so this doesn't tell you the absolute light output at each frequency. You can see that a warm LED has (relatively) more green output and less red output than an incandescent bulb. However, if the LED was bright enough I expect you'd get enough for both the red a green lenses.

Light%20Spectrum%20by%20light%20type.png


Richard
 
Call Marinebeam, they are very helpful and know the various boating requirements extremely well.
 
dhays said:
WesK, you are correct BUT, depending on the color of the lens and the color of the LED, it is possible that you could could get very little light through that fixture. "Red" is a pretty vague wavelength reference. Is the LED emits light in a very narrow wavelength band, and the lens filters light in a very narrow wavelength band, they better match or you won't see much light at all.
Click to expand...

My nav lights showed no discernable difference with LED and incandescent bulbs other than brightness.

I highly doubt that a good quality fixture and fairly new lens requires a colored LED.

As has been pointed out.....kerosene lamps meet the stsndard...I highly doubt if your nav lights look red and green from 0 to 3 miles away , that you aren't within THE COLREG requirements. Maybe some fancy machine can tell...but not the average captain or part time boater.
 
Thanks RTF, they have vanity light bulb I've been looking for. Heartland, UPS, USPS, FedEx, etc. have no problem finding us. Presently enjoying warm weather on the Florida Gulf Coast.

psneeld, I carried a oil lantern on my back stay for years but choose to light it with a 12vdc bulb conversion, I did however have a gimbled bulkhead mounted oil lamp below that was fired with candle wax oil that was standard on lots of sailboats and actually not only provided light but dryed out the cabin during foul weather.
I will give a cool white led festoon bulb a test in the port and starboard running lights before ordering the red and green led bulbs.
 
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