Line Handling Accident

[Phyrcooler]

One of the things that seems lost on many boaters is the importance of stopping the boat first with the engine(s), securing it from moving forward or backwards, and then properly setting up dock lines.

Ted

^^^^ This ^^^^

I see too many boats coming into slips or alongside docks with folks trying to frantically rope cleats to stop the boat, or those on the dock attempting to physically ward off thousands of pounds of momentum.

 

[sunchaser]

And then there are those of us who have docks with bull rails only.

 

[psneeld]

And then there are those of us who have docks with bull rails only.

You would think someone would have an ingenious clamping device you attatch your dockline to and toss behind the bull rail for at least a temporary, secure a line.

If I was assistance towing out there with 2 boats to tie up at a wack.... I would have MacGuivered something out. I developed a release for carabiners attached to bow eye that drove a lot of guys nuts.

As they say...necessity is the mother of invention.

 

[Northern Spy]

Lots of absolutes posted.

Pretty sure when Captain Nat Herreshoff designed his cavel chock, now known as a Herreshoff cleat, in the late 1800s, it was designed with a hawsehole in the center of the open base.

The one thing about seamanship is that there really aren't many absolutes. Just good decisions for the current scenario.

I will agree that many do not know how to properly hitch a cleat.

Eyesplices over horns of a cleat have their place. Especially if sharing a cleat with others. Dipping an eye makes it so neither has to untie each others vessel.

 

[mvweebles]

You would think someone would have an ingenious clamping device you attatch your dockline to and toss behind the bull rail for at least a temporary, secure a line.



If I was assistance towing out there with 2 boats to tie up at a wack.... I would have MacGuivered something out. I developed a release for carabiners attached to bow eye that drove a lot of guys nuts.



As they say...necessity is the mother of invention.

Someone did. I demod it several times at Poulsbo Trawler Fest years ago. Looks like it's no longer made. Was fairly expensive. Around $150 as I recall.


https://youtu.be/Kom49M2z9uQ


If I owned a yacht club in PNW, I'd position the clubhouse so the bar overlooked the guest dock. And assure it has bullrails. No need for ESPN

Peter

 

[psneeld]

Someone did.


https://youtu.be/Kom49M2z9uQ


If I owned a yacht club in PNW, I'd position the clubhouse so the bar overlooked the guest dock. And assure it has bullrails. No need for ESPN

Peter

That is something that I would figure out in 30 seconds...works most of the time...but I foresee situations where it sliding along until it comes to a support just wouldn't work.... I see something that will clamp and clamp harder the more you tug on it.

Not having to worry about bull rails (although there are a few on the east coast)...hard for me to get a good feel for what is and isn't good with bull rails.

 

[psneeld]

Lots of absolutes posted.

Pretty sure when Captain Nat Herreshoff designed his cavel chock, now known as a Herreshoff cleat, in the late 1800s, it was designed with a hawsehole in the center of the open base.

The one thing about seamanship is that there really aren't many absolutes. Just good decisions for the current scenario.

I will agree that many do not know how to properly hitch a cleat.

Eyesplices over horns of a cleat have their place. Especially if sharing a cleat with others. Dipping an eye makes it so neither has to untie each others vessel.

100%

 

[mvweebles]

That is something that I would figure out in 30 seconds...works most of the time...but I foresee situations where it sliding along until it comes to a support just wouldn't work.... I see something that will clamp and clamp harder the more you tug on it.



Not having to worry about bull rails (although there are a few on the east coast)...hard for me to get a good feel for what is and isn't good with bull rails.

That hook worked well. Not only for bullrails, but you could toss it over the walkway and catch the far side of the dock. Was well made.

I never understood bullrails. Truth be told, they were intimidating to me and sort of scary. Of course that was pre-YouTube so I'm sure there are tips and tricks available that I never knew. Whole 'nother thread I suppose.

Peter

 

[AZ2Loop]

....Eyesplices over horns of a cleat have their place. Especially if sharing a cleat with others. Dipping an eye makes it so neither has to untie each others vessel.

Very nice. I had seen that in years past, but had forgotten the technique. Thanks for that reminder. Both boaters have to be familiar with the concept, but it is an elegant solution for sure for sharing a cleat. A simple bowline, and some courtesy.

If unfamiliar, here is the technique:

 

[Barking Sands]

Where are the pilots at? Or those that have to spend hours each year going over accident prevention? Each of you above have your preferred way of doing things that I am sure are acceptable to you. And for the most part these routines are safe. Some may be safer than others. But the difference in safety between two opposing routines layed out above pale in comparison to the differences in safety of what goes on in between your ears. The person who wrote the details of the story alluded to the real issue right in his post.

COMPLACENCY

He stated he had done this a thousand times. I am sure he knew well enough not to put his hand in a precarious spot as the lines where about to tighten. But he always got away with it.

Accidents of this nature will not be reduced solely by changing a routine. There are no routines that I saw above the would eliminate accidents just from the routine alone. And as we know things can change quickly and routines many times go right out the window. Letting your guard down and allowing complacency to creep in is the underlying factor.

There are a few other large factors he outlined that had little to do with his routine as well. Distraction is another.

 

[bowball]

I’d like to try an EZ Docker if someone has one they would sell.

 

[jleonard]

Eyesplices over horns of a cleat have their place. Especially if sharing a cleat with others. Dipping an eye makes it so neither has to untie each others vessel.

I have done this many times. No one ever taught me this it just seemed the logical way to do it. Never knew it had a "name".

 

[AprilDeg]

Thank you for posting the link to the article. I wanted to reply and thank the guy for his post. I learned something valuable from his awful experience and I appreciate him taking the time to post it. Maybe one of you can let him know that.

I will start looping the dock line over the cleat as we dock and go back later to secure and reposition the line "through the cleat/over the horns" AFTER the boat is completely stopped moving. I'm going to tell my boating friends to do likewise.

 

[kthoennes]

Cautionary notes are always good, but when we cast off from our home slip, we leave the dock lines at the slip, tied to the cleats and dock posts. They're custom and neatly tied to firmly center our boat in the slip, so when we return we always put the loops through the holes in the boat's cleats and over each horn and we're done. It's fast, simple and secure. There are about 9,000 things on the boat that could do serious harm, including standing in the engine bay with the engines running to check sounds and temperatures and belts. We'll continue to use the cleats that way but like so many things on the boat, you have to be consistently careful.

 

[backinblue]

Cautionary notes are always good, but when we cast off from our home slip, we leave the dock lines at the slip, tied to the cleats and dock posts. They're custom and neatly tied to firmly center our boat in the slip, so when we return we always put the loops through the holes in the boat's cleats and over each horn and we're done. It's fast, simple and secure. There are about 9,000 things on the boat that could do serious harm, including standing in the engine bay with the engines running to check sounds and temperatures and belts. We'll continue to use the cleats that way but like so many things on the boat, you have to be consistently careful.

I'm in the same camp. Our home slip is mostly just pilings with a short finger on the port side (about 12') so having permanent lines at the slip that are of the correct length to keep the boat centered took a little time to get set up and adjusted. My wife handles the lines. When we return to our slip, she simply drops the eye over the cleats. Once we are ready to get off the boat and leave, I run the bow lines and spring lines through the center of the cleat. If I don't there is a chance they can come off the cleat due to tides and wave action. Similarly when we are leaving the slip, I take the lines out from the center of the cleat and drop them back over top so she simply needs to lift them off when we are ready to untie. The stern lines are not an issue because they are attached to a floating pier near water level. So as others have said, never say never because there are so many different dock setups that we have to deal with.

 

[Circumnavigator]

Not in my world of professional captains and experienced cruisers. But with part time boaters it's true until they learn better or the hard way.]

Absolutely. Professionals and experienced cruisers always put loops ashore to go over cleats or bollards and adjust the length on the boat. That way you don't have to trust some dockwalker to cleat it correctly and can adjust it easily on board. This is especially true as boats get larger. Fintry has big obsolete sailing winches on both sides and the stern and dock lines go to them. The boat we went around the world on -- a Swan 57 sloop weighed only 60,000 pounds -- you could horse her around as long as it wasn't blowing, but it was a whole lot easier to drop the line on a winch.


I doubt that many of you with larger boats (60'+) have docking winches, but they certainly make it easier in any but the best conditions.


Jim

 

[DTMays]

For Permanent Lines Only

I put the loop through the center of the cleat and over both horns to hold the line in place on the permanent lines that I have on my home port tie-up only. This leaves the cleat open for one or more additional lines to be tied to it. I have not removed the two stern lines that I have tied that way in the eight years that I have been at that slip. When I finally remove those lines, I will take my time, and I may have to cut the line off.

 

[backinblue]

I put the loop through the center of the cleat and over both horns to hold the line in place on the permanent lines that I have on my home port tie-up only. This leaves the cleat open for one or more additional lines to be tied to it. I have not removed the two stern lines that I have tied that way in the eight years that I have been at that slip. When I finally remove those lines, I will take my time, and I may have to cut the line off.

Same here for permanent lines at my home dock.

 

[Panama Dave]

Regardless of how you secure your boat never put a finger inside the eye of a splice. This can happen just as easily dropping on eye over a cleat if your fingers are inside. Alway grip the line without your fingers inside the eye.

 

[AprilDeg]

Aye aye! This is all helpful advice. We have dock lines at our slip for our 26' Sea Hunt. I have been using a pole to get the loops and push them through eyes. I am not cognizant of putting my fingers in the loops but I must to get them over the horns.

We are hoping to get a "loop boat" in the summer. We are looking for a used Aspen C130, Helmsmen 38E or American Tug 395/365. I'm practicing my deck hand skills and taking classes from America's Boating Club in advent of that acquisition. Those classes focus more on the knot quality and less on where your fingers are while tying it.

 

[rslifkin]

We leave lines on the dock at our home slip as well. But we don't put the lines through the cleats, just the loop over the cleat. A 12 inch loop on a 10 inch cleat isn't just going to pop off unprompted. And as mentioned earlier, fingers never, ever go inside a spliced loop for any reason at any time.

 

[candyannwilliams]

I had an acquaintance that had a friend that lost the tip of his finger and had a fingernail tattooed on...he said you could never tell he had lost his finger tip.

 

[backinblue]

We leave lines on the dock at our home slip as well. But we don't put the lines through the cleats, just the loop over the cleat. A 12 inch loop on a 10 inch cleat isn't just going to pop off unprompted. And as mentioned earlier, fingers never, ever go inside a spliced loop for any reason at any time.

As I mentioned earlier, there are docking situations with fixed rather than floating attachements where your cleat could be below the attachment point to the dock/piling due to tide. Add to that some wave action and a line could be prompted to pop off a cleat in some circumstances. I agree to keep your fingers clear and even if you are inclined to go through the cleat and not just over it, there is no need to do that when docking and the boat is moving. You can always do that later when there are no unexpected quick changes to the loads on the lines.

 

[Dougcole]

I'm in the same camp. Our home slip is mostly just pilings with a short finger on the port side (about 12') so having permanent lines at the slip that are of the correct length to keep the boat centered took a little time to get set up and adjusted. My wife handles the lines. When we return to our slip, she simply drops the eye over the cleats. Once we are ready to get off the boat and leave, I run the bow lines and spring lines through the center of the cleat. If I don't there is a chance they can come off the cleat due to tides and wave action. Similarly when we are leaving the slip, I take the lines out from the center of the cleat and drop them back over top so she simply needs to lift them off when we are ready to untie. The stern lines are not an issue because they are attached to a floating pier near water level. So as others have said, never say never because there are so many different dock setups that we have to deal with.

Same here. Permanent lines set up in the home slip, spliced eye end goes to the boat. When pulling into the slip we drop the eyes over the cleat. Once the boat is settled with no pressure on the lines, I put them through and over. I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving the boat unattended with the loops just over the cleats.

"

Same thing for wrapping bitter end around the horns with no "lock loop." As PS Neeld has said on here many times (he's usually right, damn it, lol) this is absolutely the right way to do it for a line that will be under pressure, like a tow line. But I wouldn't do it for a line that goes slack at times.



When I was guiding I would launch my skiff then run it around to a floating dock in the marina, and secure it with a single breast line wrapped around the horns of my spring cleat. The other end was permanently spliced to the dock. I'd then go get my truck from the ramp, park it and go back to the boat to meet my clients. I did it that way many, many times with no issues.


But one morning (4:45 am) when I was exhausted after 12 straight very long days of charters in a row, I did something wrong. Still not sure exactly what Id did, but when I got back to the dock after parking my truck my boat was floating in the middle of the basin with no one in it. My clients were walking right behind me down the dock.


Pretty embarrassing. I locked it off after that.


As someone else said, different scenarios call for different techniques.

 

[psneeld]

As I mentioned earlier, there are docking situations with fixed rather than floating attachements where your cleat could be below the attachment point to the dock/piling due to tide. Add to that some wave action and a line could be prompted to pop off a cleat in some circumstances. I agree to keep your fingers clear and even if you are inclined to go through the cleat and not just over it, there is no need to do that when docking and the boat is moving. You can always do that later when there are no unexpected quick changes to the loads on the lines.

That's where leading the line around the cleat and dropping the loop just over the horn pointing bock towards the origin of the line works just fine.

I will admit though that people who live hundreds of miles from their boat and expect severe weather (beyond thunderstorms) often employ different techniques for ying up their boats depending on the situation in reference to the marina, docks, vessel, etc...etc.... Even then the pass the line through the cleat and back over the horns is one I will never use.

 

[backinblue]

That's where leading the line around the cleat and dropping the loop just over the horn pointing bock towards the origin of the line works just fine.

I don't doubt that works fine, but at our home slip where lines stay permanently attached at the correct length needed to center the boat in the slip, it's just much easier coming and going to drop a loop over the cleat and secure it later.

 

[psneeld]

I don't doubt that works fine, but at our home slip where lines stay permanently attached at the correct length needed to center the boat in the slip, it's just much easier coming and going to drop a loop over the cleat and secure it later.

As I added, still would never do it that one way...and if good, you can still just hit the one horn and flip the line around the cleat and bingo you`done for the duration....only takes a second and done from the boat....unless as I posted you don't expect to be back and everything from chafe protection and extra lines are needed.