Lower helm station

[SeaDogAK]

It’s entirely a matter of personal preference. For me, boating in SE Alaska and the PNW, the flybridge is mostly used for storage. I steered my previous boat from the FB once for a few hours, and I’ve never steered from the FB in my current boat, which has a pilothouse. The FB is a great spot for cocktails at the dock on a nice day.

My only comment for others is that the absence of a lower helm might limit your resale market, by eliminating some potential buyers.

 

[Max1]

Practice? Ability?

A lot depends, especially on operator's capability...but it's done all the time.

Some boats are easier to pull in to just about every dock, others backing in is just as easy.

So many possibilities.....

Very slooooowly....It's possible but requires a LOT more prep and forethought. And threshold for abort is a lot lower than with crew.

Wayne Gretzky was famous for saying you skate to where the puck will be, not where it is. Meaning there is a point where the boat is still moving and you're moving from the bridge to the deck. When docking single handed, my goal is to build slow momentum and plan accordingly. When coming alongside a side-tie for example, when I'm 5-feet off the dock and closing, I'll leave the helm and head down to catch a line. I try not to get off the boat until I have a line to the dock which is tough sometimes. Mostly, it takes a lot of time to prep lines and fenders - more if you're docking from a flybridge because you need more time.

But your point is well taken. It greatly adds to the complexity. But with practice and recognition waiving-off the landing is possible/likely, its manageable.

Peter

I'm gonna have to practice more

 

[Action]

My only comment for others is that the absence of a lower helm might limit your resale market, by eliminating some potential buyers.

I am begining to think the same way.

 

[Scrivma1]

Having both was a priority in our boat search, great visibility from the lower along with option to converse with passengers not up for the cooler temps on flybridge. We only have a Bimini top so if wet or cool, we get to go below. Nice to have wipers and heat/fan on th windshield in rain. Side door is crucial, although like using flybridge whenever possible for docking or locks. Also have loop plans so that factored in.

 

[READY]

I could be in the minority but I strongly favor having and driving full time from a true raised pilot house if it has easy access to the side decks, bow and cockpit. I use an aft camera to improve that view. I often am single handed and I can take a few steps from the PH to secure a midship line, step back to the PH to make any positioning adjustments and then walk back to secure a stern line. Being out of the weather is another big plus for me. I also tend to do a lot of night hours in the bay and coastal where RADAR is critical. Not a huge factor but I do save on electronics since I don't require more than basic engine instruments on the flybridge.

Having said this I don't have to deal often with logs or coral heads but if I did I think my view from the PH would not be too bad. If so I could always go to the flybridge.

Having just an interior steering station is a significant compromise vs. a raised pilot house or even just a regular pilot house. Even on our 32 foot Nordic Tugs I found the RPH to be a great use of space.

There is no right or wrong answer so get as much experience as possible and consider all the scenarios you are likely to encounter. Ultimately my goal is to have as many options as possible and a raised pilot house is on my "must have" list.

 

[Action]

There is no right or wrong answer so get as much experience as possible and consider all the scenarios you are likely to encounter. Ultimately my goal is to have as many options as possible and a raised pilot house is on my "must have" list.

I am learning a lot and did not think my question would generate this much discussion. I appreciate the feedback.

Action

 

[Airnet]

Our last boat, Meridian 391, didn't have a lower helm. We loved all the extra space. I've done rough weather from the FB. It was fine and the 391 is a light boat. I prefer a boat with only a FB helm.

 

[Nick14]

I had boats only with a lower station for years. Never liked the look of a flybridge, and actually avoided boats with them.

Then about 18 years ago we bought our first boat with a flybridge (dual station). It was a revelation. Ever since then we've only had boats with dual stations. We run from the flybridge 90% of the time (mid-Atlantic and New England). The visibility can't be beat, and it's just fun to be out in the open air, like driving a convertible.

BUT... I personally would never have a boat without a lower station. For me a flybridge has been like insurance. You don't need it until you do. When caught out in a storm I always steer from the lower station. The visibility through rain on plastic (regardless of whatever fancy Eisenglass name it's called) without windshield wipers doesn't cut it for me.

I also always dock from the lower station. I want to be close to the deck, able to run out and handle lines, both because I usually single-hand docking, and because you can't always count on someone being on the dock to help.

I agree with @backinblue. My preference is for two stations, but if I could only have one, it would definitely be a lower station (especially as arthritis continues to progress and make climbing ladders harder).

 

[rslifkin]

BUT... I personally would never have a boat without a lower station. For me a flybridge has been like insurance. You don't need it until you do. When caught out in a storm I always steer from the lower station. The visibility through rain on plastic (regardless of whatever fancy Eisenglass name it's called) without windshield wipers doesn't cut it for me.

The rain situation is the biggest thing I like about my single "upper" helm compared to a flybridge. Because we're not all the way up at flybridge height, we have proper glass windshields with wipers. The only isinglass to look through is to the sides and aft, but the forward and forward quarter views are through real glass.

 

[Shrew]

I have both and use both. Any time I'm approaching or leaving a dock I operate from below. My lower helm has a sliding door that is a flush step out to the side deck right at the midship cleat.

I run a line from the bow cleat, over the rail and back to the lower helm door. I run another line to the midship cleat and up over the rail. This allows me to handle throwing the midship and bow lines while docking.

My wife handles the stern line, steps off to make the stern fast and come forward to take the midship and bow lines.

With a single inboard and a thruster, I don't want to be on the upper helm. I can see very little from the upper helm when docking.

When underway, we use the lower helm in bad weather. However, I much prefer operating from the upper when underway.

I would want both helms.

the only way buy a boat with an upper helm only is if it had twins with a bow and stern thruster.

 

[TStiles]

I can't imagine not having a flybridge as an option for great weather.

An enclosed Canvas/Eisenglas flybridge can act as quite the sail when attempting to dock. My twin screw Ocean Alexander 46 really knew how to "sail". By removing the eisenglas and keeping only the bimini cover up, the handling improved immensely.

My present boat (single screw w/ bow thruster) is much easier to control at all times in all conditions with bimini only. For all but really great weather, I pilot from below.

 

[Iggy]

I don't have a flybridge and wish I did at times. However, I would not want to own a boat with only a flybridge and no lower helm. In rough weather, the movement up top is greater than below and can be pretty uncomfortable. If you ever have to dock single-handed, it can be difficult if you are having to climb up and down stairs quickly. Just the climbing up and down can be difficult as you get older, especially on some boats that have more or less of a ladder leading to the bridge. Ideally, I'd have 2 helms, but if I could only pick one, it would be lower.

Some lower helms are shared with the solan. On my boat it has its own wheelhouse, so visibility and room are very good.

I do like the lower helm better. Most of my electronics are there.

 

[Bellakins]

We have a Heritage East 36. We have both an upper and lower helm. We have yet to use the lower helm in the 4 years we have owned the boat. We have a fully enclosed flybridge and it's very comfortable in all weather. Coming from a sailboat, we're thrilled with the view from higher up. We live right off the AICW and all of our cruising is either on the ICW or Chesapeake Bay or one of the Sounds. We don't go out when the weather is bad and aren't planning on doing any ocean cruising, so it's perfect for us to just steer from the flybridge. For us, the lower helm is just a decoration. There isn't even a chair there.

 

[Action]

We have a Heritage East 36. We have both an upper and lower helm. We have yet to use the lower helm in the 4 years we have owned the boat. We have a fully enclosed flybridge and it's very comfortable in all weather. Coming from a sailboat, we're thrilled with the view from higher up. We live right off the AICW and all of our cruising is either on the ICW or Chesapeake Bay or one of the Sounds. We don't go out when the weather is bad and aren't planning on doing any ocean cruising, so it's perfect for us to just steer from the flybridge. For us, the lower helm is just a decoration. There isn't even a chair there.

Thanks so much for your post.

Your vessel is very close to what I might consider for the future.
And the crusing you describe would be what I am seeking. Coastal crusing and away from known foul weather. (Wind for the most part) I realize I have little control over the weather. That may be more of an informed choice.

I have seen vessels made by that manufacturer and others and they apeal to me. A little larger with no lower helm is why I posted. I cn see docking with my wife (or someone else) could be handled from the fly. If I soloed I am thinking the lower helm would be necessary for docking. But then again, my experince is with 30' (or less) Express Cruisers in far smaller water. (Fresh versus salt)

Action

 

[timb7734]

We have a flybridge boat and an enclosed helm trawler, prior have owned another enclosed helm trawler and an express. Personally our flybridge boat has excellent visibility from the lower helm, and I have only once in several thousand hours used the flybridge. The enclosed helm trawlers are raised pilot house styles so those bridges are enclosed. I do not care to sit in the sun or cold, but can if I wish. Also hate Isenglass with a passion.

 

[johnma]

we have both. i generally run from the flybridge and always dock from the flybridge. However the lower helm is great for poor weather (cold and rain) and i also use it when trolling with a couple of lines out. I can watch the rods and throw it into neutral when i get a bite.

 

[RickyD]

I am a few years from retiring. At that point I will leave the desert and get closer to water. And will buy a "trawler". For the most part cruising would be my wife and my self. She has nearly zero experience but takes direction well.

For now my attraction is 40 to 44 foot range. The general design of a Sundeck.
I have operated many single screw express cruisers in the 30 foot and shorter range. A couple of house boats on Lake Powell from 50 to 60 feet with twin outboards.
And a 32 foot sailboat. Just not a trawler with a fly bridge.

There will be a learning curve for sure. And pretty sure I have a lot to learn.

Some of these do not have a lower helm station. My first thought because of my past is a lower helm would be mandatory. Now I am not so sure as most of the fly bridges are fully enclosed in canvas. And the vantage for docking would be better up there anyway.

Does a lower helm make a significant difference when considering the next step in yachting?

Action

Ok my 2 cents: I have Had the current boat for almost 5 years and never used the down helm except never say never: I lost pressure in the steering hydraulics at the fly bridge but I could use the down helm. My start and stop switch for the port engine had some corrosion and quit but it worded at the down helm till figured out. I do have a fully enclosed fly bridge with Macralon clear panels and a hard top so being in southern California I can boat all year 'round up on top with better visiblity all the way around and down. At the down helm I can't see astern. I always run from the top unless as in a past boat I was on a 9 hour run, getting beat up with spray going all the way over the top. I couldn't take it past 6 hours and moved to the down helm to complete the journey. I did that twice on that boat. I love having the down helm in cases where I need it. Also, I single hand my 55 from the top in good weather and I can usually get down in time. You know, l get the boat moving into the dock and climb down fast. Jump off the swim step, quick wrap on the stern line, then grab what I can, usually the spring or a fender to keep me from bouncing or blowing away. Again, only in good weather. I have an end tie also.

 

[AlaskaProf]

^^^ Thanks

My thoughts exactly. What would your dermatologist advise?

I wouldn't be without an open bridge for maneuvering, but a well designed pilothouse,with a good tall chair, near the coffee pot is a must.

 

[SteveK]

I had a pilothouse boat a while back without a FB. Wanted one. In the yard where I worked then there was a boat (derelict) and I asked about cutting off the FB. No problem.
I then had a FB boat with one set of controls, so I moved everything up to the FB and repurposed the PH. Never looked back, must have FB and lower is optional.
As a former sail boater staying on FB seemed natural, but the lower is growing on me as I age.

 

[heysteve]

Now that we've pretty much wrapped this subject up, perhaps the next thread could be "is an aft cockpit necessary?". Personally, I would not own a boat without an aft cockpit with an easy step onto the dock. Just makes line handling and docking soooo much easier.

 

[Circumnavigator]

This debate, like the question of single or twin screws, has strong advocates on both sides. There is no "right" answer.



Most of our boating experience is in sailboats, so when we were looking for Fintry, we didn't consider having a flybridge. We could have added steering and engine controls on the wheelhouse roof, but it was never a serious thought.


After 20 years with Fintry, a flybridge is not something we looked for. Morning Light has one, but we never use it for driving.


Flybridge pros:
Better visibility, particularly when backing up.
It can be pleasant to be out in the weather.


Flybridge cons:
I wouldn't want a lot of expensive electronics out in the open.
Driver below can help with docking by stepping out the side door.
Cost of duplicate electronics, wheel, gearshift, unless you always drive from above.
Heat and Aircon are not going to work as well or even at all.
Visibility through vinyl is not as good as glass, particularly at distances.
No windscreen wipers in rain.

Flybridge enclosure adds windage, makes docking in a cross breeze harder.
More motion in a seaway


Jim


Sweetwater -- Swan 57 sloop on which we circumnavigated 1995-98
Fintry -- x Royal Navy Fleet Tender -- owned 2003-2022, 20,000 miles including trans-Atlantic
Morning Light -- Webbers Cove 42 single screw trawler 2021- ?