Maretron N2KView

[stiggy]

So after using SignalK/Grafana and RaspberryPi & Linux to monitor onboard systems resulting in numerous failures (6x SD Cards and 1 Linux box) I'm wanting to goto a more robust monitoring solution.

Obvious choice is N2KView at this point, I think. Seems like Defender has the best pricing, $807, but they are backordered. It's strange that in almost 2023 software can be backordered but here we are.

Any other recommendations on dealers to purchase the software? I've gotten a couple quotes which are at the MSRP of $995.

Any other solutions I should consider?

 

[Jhenault]

If you run N2K view on a Ipad or Android tablet and not PC you don't need the N2KView software just a IPG-100 that retails for $695...
See - https://www.maretron.com/products/N2KView-mobile.php

 

[twistedtree]

If you run N2K view on a Ipad or Android tablet and not PC you don't need the N2KView software just a IPG-100 that retails for $695...
See - https://www.maretron.com/products/N2KView-mobile.php

But don't you need N2KView to create the screens that are used on the mobile apps?

 

[Jhenault]

No license required to use N2K View on a PC to create/modify the screens... You create/modify the screens in the unlicensed N2K View and then transfer them to the IPG100 for use by the mobile app... The license is only required if you want to populate the screens with live nmea2000 data in the N2K View program running on a PC.

 

[stiggy]

If you run N2K view on a Ipad or Android tablet and not PC you don't need the N2KView software just a IPG-100 that retails for $695...
See - https://www.maretron.com/products/N2KView-mobile.php

Interesting, thanks for pointing that out. I assumed using that you would also have to subscribe to their cloud service, is that not correct?

 

[twistedtree]

No license required to use N2K View on a PC to create/modify the screens... You create/modify the screens in the unlicensed N2K View and then transfer them to the IPG100 for use by the mobile app... The license is only required if you want to populate the screens with live nmea2000 data in the N2K View program running on a PC.

Great to know, thanks. Obviously I haven't used the mobile app separately.

 

[wkearney99]

So after using SignalK/Grafana and RaspberryPi & Linux to monitor onboard systems resulting in numerous failures (6x SD Cards and 1 Linux box) I'm wanting to goto a more robust monitoring solution.

For the pi, don't use SD cards for storage. The more recent ones will boot directly from a USB-connected device. For older ones you can set them up to boot from the SD card and immediately switch to USB storage for everything else. Works quite well. That and you generally get much better performance from decent USB storage devices.

Corsair, Crucial, Arcanite and others make much better performing USB drives. Just know that some are considerably faster than others (Crucial's X6 is a LOT slower than the X8, I have both).

Generic USB thumb drives are usually garbage and should not be used for pi media. I've yet to find any microSD cards suitable for long-term data-collecting/logging situations. Lots of marketing claims, not backed up by real world experiences.

That and most modern computer devices benefit from controlled power-down methods. Just 'flipping the breaker' is really bad for most of them. It's an added annoyance to have to do a clean shut-down first, but if you don't then you're pretty much guaranteed to have data corruption, sooner than later.

 

[Greg QS]

Just learning my maretron system. Mine runs on a ships pc and is viewable through the gamin via axios interface. I see all engine , tanks, and a lot of end switching for bilge alarms, flow sensors. I still need to build out the system though. I want to add door switches, run sensors for bilges, interior temp sensors and tex interface to let me know when there is a problem or for monitoring.

I would love some input as to what I should install on the system. What is the best way to utilize this system

righ now I have
bilge alarms
all 8 tanks fuel, water , black
end switches for water flow on all engines
engine gauge data

 

[twistedtree]

For the pi, don't use SD cards for storage. The more recent ones will boot directly from a USB-connected device. For older ones you can set them up to boot from the SD card and immediately switch to USB storage for everything else. Works quite well. That and you generally get much better performance from decent USB storage devices.

Why are SD cards a problem, and why are USB sticks better? Does the Pi overrun the number of allowed writes to the SD card?

And I haven’t done any methodical testing, but SD has always seemed faster to me than USB?

Are these things specific to Pi, or generally true?

 

[twistedtree]

I’m interested in what experience all of you have had with keeping N2Kview running 24x7x365. I don’t think I have ever seen it last more than about 30-45 days on its own, and around 90 days when I do a scheduled reboot of the computer once a week. For me this has been a real problem since I rely on it for remote monitoring and alarming when I’m away from the boat. Maretron has always pushed me to use their black box, but a friend has one and it hangs up at about the same frequency.

 

[stiggy]

I’m interested in what experience all of you have had with keeping N2Kview running 24x7x365. I don’t think I have ever seen it last more than about 30-45 days on its own, and around 90 days when I do a scheduled reboot of the computer once a week. For me this has been a real problem since I rely on it for remote monitoring and alarming when I’m away from the boat. Maretron has always pushed me to use their black box, but a friend has one and it hangs up at about the same frequency.

Do you experience any data loss when this happens? That was my reason for my Influx/Grafana setup, to monitor the boat remotely but as I said before I just couldn't get a reliable and consistent platform setup. I figured(hoped) going to Maretron would give me some more stability.

 

[twistedtree]

Do you experience any data loss when this happens? That was my reason for my Influx/Grafana setup, to monitor the boat remotely but as I said before I just couldn't get a reliable and consistent platform setup. I figured(hoped) going to Maretron would give me some more stability.

Not sure what you mean by data loss. But trends are definitely lost for the duration of the outage, and likely loss of previous data. So I think the answer is Yes, data is lost.

N2KView has lots to like, but robustness and dependability is not one of them. I would REALLY like an alternative. I simply can’t count on it for unattended operation, and I’ve been trying and working with them for well over 10 years now.

 

[stiggy]

Not sure what you mean by data loss. But trends are definitely lost for the duration of the outage, and likely loss of previous data. So I think the answer is Yes, data is lost.

N2KView has lots to like, but robustness and dependability is not one of them. I would REALLY like an alternative. I simply can’t count on it for unattended operation, and I’ve been trying and working with them for well over 10 years now.

Sorry, I should have been more clear on that but thanks for the information.

 

[Greg QS]

With Maretron. Does any one know if I can log into the system remotely. Monitor it remotely? I have Wi-Fi on the boat full time. I'm pretty sure I have the computer gateway already The texting module is unavailable at this time

 

[stevemitchell]

For the pi, don't use SD cards for storage. The more recent ones will boot directly from a USB-connected device. For older ones you can set them up to boot from the SD card and immediately switch to USB storage for everything else. Works quite well. That and you generally get much better performance from decent USB storage devices.

Raspberry Pi's are great for many things, but for running Grafana/Influx they are not. For that matter, I don't rely on a Pi for anything I would consider to be critical monitoring. Their storage mediums are not designed for constant writes, the CPUs are underpowered when there are big data dumps, and there are issues with reliable power sources.

I run Grafana/Influx/SignalK and Maretron N2Kview on NUC's - separate ones, actually. These can run off of 12v or AC power, you can build them with fully redundant SSD storage that will last a long time, and are much more powerful. Yes, they cost 10x as much (at least) but if you are using it for critical monitoring......

After trying easily 10 different monitoring solutions, and spending a lot of time using Grafana/Influx/SignalK & Maretron N2Kview, there really isn't another solution out there that does as well as N2Kview. I prefer having a full Windows system with the fat client so that I can customize things easier than in the mobile client. There are also a number of objects that won't work on the mobile client (time based graphs as an example) but that work fine on Windows.

That being said, N2Kview is a pain in the ass, is using outdated underlying technology (Adobe Air!?) and has broken bits when it comes to working with NMEA 2000, but it's the best we have.

 

[Retriever]

I’m interested in what experience all of you have had with keeping N2Kview running 24x7x365. I don’t think I have ever seen it last more than about 30-45 days on its own, and around 90 days when I do a scheduled reboot of the computer once a week. For me this has been a real problem since I rely on it for remote monitoring and alarming when I’m away from the boat. Maretron has always pushed me to use their black box, but a friend has one and it hangs up at about the same frequency.

Same experience with N2Kview on the PC, and there's no remote notification when N2Kview shuts down. We have a TSM810 that is more stable, so I have that generate all the alarms.

 

[Greg QS]

Since I have a windows pc on the boat. Is there a way to use it as a remote desktop and view the n2kview remotely that way?

 

[stevemitchell]

Same experience with N2Kview on the PC, and there's no remote notification when N2Kview shuts down. We have a TSM810 that is more stable, so I have that generate all the alarms.

I have N2Kview running on two systems, and for one or two super critical alarms I have them both configured to send notifications. That does mean in the event that alarm goes off that I get two notifications from two different systems, but that's OK. Those are bad alarms like ultra-high water alarm, etc. Still, it would be nice if there was an alarm or monitor from one N2Kview instance watching another.

I've also used my IT/tech background and installed software on the Windows machine(s) to monitor the N2Kview process and ensure it is always running. That is monitored by another machine, and works pretty well. However, it is pretty rare now that the N2Kview processes stop running. What happens instead is that it loses it's mind and has blank data boxes for everything, so really no way to monitor for that.

I also use the same IT monitoring system to monitor the Windows machine itself, that it is up and running, remote desktop is working, and monitor all of the rest of the network stuff including that the IPG100 is alive, etc.

Since I have a windows pc on the boat. Is there a way to use it as a remote desktop and view the n2kview remotely that way?

Yup you can enable remote desktop and get in to look at N2Kview. I do it all the time to change things, review more detailed alarm status, etc. You'll need remote access to your boat network using a VPN or some other means. I wrote an article on how to access your boat remotely if it is helpful: https://seabits.com/remotely-accessing-boat-systems/

 

[Greg QS]

I read the article. frankly beyond my computer skills.
what would you recommend .
I have a dedicated business stand alone Verizon router (on cell network) not a MiFi
windows pc on the boat to run the n2kview
It is set up wireless , ( i can access the web ) through the Garmin screen. The screen is set up to use the video input.

 

[Circumnavigator]

I have used N2KView on a PC and have much the same experience as above. I have also used Yacht Devices WiFi Gateway YDWG-02 which has much the same capabilities. I have not used it enough to recommend it versus N2KView, but in view of the substantial price difference, some may want to look at it. (YDWG-02 is $189).

 

[stevemitchell]

I have also used Yacht Devices WiFi Gateway YDWG-02 which has much the same capabilities.

I've used the Yacht Devices product line extensively, including the YDWG-02, and it has less than 50% (I'm being generous) of the features that N2Kview has. You can see data, graphs, and gauges, but there is rudimentary alarms, and a ton of other functionality that just doesn't exist.

 

[pjtemplin]

For the pi, don't use SD cards for storage. The more recent ones will boot directly from a USB-connected device. For older ones you can set them up to boot from the SD card and immediately switch to USB storage for everything else. Works quite well. That and you generally get much better performance from decent USB storage devices.

Corsair, Crucial, Arcanite and others make much better performing USB drives. Just know that some are considerably faster than others (Crucial's X6 is a LOT slower than the X8, I have both).

My wife drives a Tesla, and they happily accept a USB-style storage media (I'm being careful to be vague about terminology here...) to record the continuous dashcam (one-hour circular loop), "permanent" dashcam (honk the horn or tap the on-screen icon to save the last 10 minutes of activity), post-crash dashcam (similar), and "sentry mode" (footage while the car is parked and someone/something got close to the car or hit it). I thought SanDisk was a really good brand, so I bought a 512GB card. It started getting slow and then was throwing errors. Contacted SanDisk, and they said "oh ney ney", can't use our regular products for that, you need the High Endurance cards for that use case. OK, two 256GB microSD cards and microSD to SD adapter means I'm starting over, but they're running solid still and show no signs of any slowdown.


If you're going to do a lot of overwrites, I'd suggest looking for something similar.

 

[mcarthur]

If N2KView spits the dummy regularly, what about a Cerbo running Large plus Signal K? The Cerbo itself seems (!) fairly stable, so it's just a matter of getting the Signal K output back home isn't it?

 

[twistedtree]

If N2KView spits the dummy regularly, what about a Cerbo running Large plus Signal K? The Cerbo itself seems (!) fairly stable, so it's just a matter of getting the Signal K output back home isn't it?

To me the missing piece, or at least a big one, is a customizable set of gauges that can be used to make up screens. In concept, N2KView does this really well, and allows user-customization unlike anything else (I think). SignalK I think is just a schema for data, and a display thingy. Grafana graphs, as the name suggests, but I don't think has gauges.

 

[stiggy]

To me the missing piece, or at least a big one, is a customizable set of gauges that can be used to make up screens. In concept, N2KView does this really well, and allows user-customization unlike anything else (I think). SignalK I think is just a schema for data, and a display thingy. Grafana graphs, as the name suggests, but I don't think has gauges.

You can make up guages in grafana but it's not "real-time" and they are pretty crude.

 

[mcarthur]

To me the missing piece, or at least a big one, is a customizable set of gauges that can be used to make up screens. In concept, N2KView does this really well, and allows user-customization unlike anything else (I think). SignalK I think is just a schema for data, and a display thingy. Grafana graphs, as the name suggests, but I don't think has gauges.

Good point. I haven't tried, but is WilhelmSK any use?

 

[DLaNeve]

I have been using multiple Pi’s on my n2k network for 7 years. I use WilhelmSK as my display. So far I’ve had 1 Pi failure due to a bad power supply.
More recently I created the same system for a friend except I used a Mac M1 rather than the Pi’s. In both cases I use Signalk, WilhelmSK, and Aquamaps. Works great!!

 

[JadePanama]

I have been using multiple Pi’s on my n2k network for 7 years. I use WilhelmSK as my display. So far I’ve had 1 Pi failure due to a bad power supply.
More recently I created the same system for a friend except I used a Mac M1 rather than the Pi’s. In both cases I use Signalk, WilhelmSK, and Aquamaps. Works great!!

You note using WilhelmSK as your display using Pis... from what I can see its only an app for Apple devices. How are you using this on a Pi??

Thanks!

 

[DLaNeve]

Hi Jade,

Sorry, I wasn't very clear. On my existing system I use a Mac mini M1 to run AquaMaps, WilhelmSK, SignalK and a MQTT Broker. I use a Raspberry Pi to gather and transmit all my homegrown sensor data (temps, bilge pumps, shorepower monitor, etc).
When I re-created this for my friend I chose to run everything on a Mac mini.

 

[Arthurc]

A bit late to this thread but ive had no issues with N2KView crashing, looks like it’s been running since August without an issue (I must have rebooted the computer in august).
I do run it on a dedicated windows 10 machine that I stripped down, disabled windows update, etc. the only things on it are N2KView and remote access.

I now have my house and boat connected via vpn (thanks seabits for the Peplink speed fusion vpn hint) so mostly use the iOS N2KView app but it does have one major limitation which is it doesn’t support any trending or high/low history. The other thing I did was use an hdmi to rtsp converter to output my N2KView display to my camera nvr as a channel so I don’t have to Remote Desktop in if I just want to view.
Overall very happy with N2KView, feels old for sure but it works.
My biggest gripes are lack of complex condition support for monitoring and the DCR (Relay).

AC