Marina Costs along ICW

[gfr51]

RE: If you are concerned about Xosts sell the boat

Not being flippant here.

But if you are that concerned about the minutia of marina costs to the extent that you have detailed.

Sell the boat.

Ok I guess I had better explain myself here. We don't own a boat...yet. I have had
boats...up to a 30 ft Cruisers. I am a backyard everything so I do not see any repair or modification
as being too awfully hard. We Owned 5 diesel cars so a single diesel is not scary.
The wife and I have been looking for a couple years now...We
want to just poke around here and there and all over. We are mid 60's age
We actually have enough that we could buy a 35/39 Mainship and hit
a marina every couple days maybe for a couple years then we would
have to thumb our way back home.
Seems like that nice stairway to the bridge on a mainship is gonna cost us fifty thou over a
ladder though...So we are now looking at sundecks.
I am not trying to be a tight azz but I see these huge bow sprits
(like a stainless railing is going to protect anything,) and patio sized
swim platforms and I am thinking that inside living space would be much more important.
For example...We drove 6-700 miles one way to norfolk naval base to see an advertised 37' marine trader.
Gorgeous boat; galley down single engine. Only problem was that I walked off 44 feet.
They had to tie up on the end of the dock cause the naval slips were too short. Odd that the
agent wasn't allowed to fire her up.
BTW when you drive over a causeway in Norfolk be prepared to get a couple invoices for toll bridges, in the mail,
that you had no idea you were even on! With no apparent way to circumvent...gotcha
When you ask the brokers most of them say marinas charge by whatever you tell em the boat is
and generally by the waterline length. I know they are trying to sell a boat but come on be honest.
Same trip we went on down to Oriental NC to see a Taiwan 34 footer that all of the cabinet doors fell
off when you tried to open one. Nice Lehman in that one though. 34 is pretty cramped.
Yesterday I looked at a marina above New Yorks' website that is asking over $8.00 a foot
for transient docking plus a premium for over 40 feet. so what $320 for a night onshore probably
plus tax.) That is why I asked about the hotel tax on docking which would be another what 32 bucks..)
My golden parachute was more like off white.
So here I sit broken hearted ...paid to xxxx but only fxxxxx
Really I am just trying in advance to get a handle on what to expect and where to expect it. Sure I
could dump a ton of money in this deal but WHY when all we really want to do is kick back with a different sunset
every few days.

 

[CaptTom]

...We want to just poke around here and there and all over.

That's what we do. We tend to be on the move most of the time, what you might call sightseeing; not staying more than a few days at any one place.

We budget for a couple of nights in a marina per week. Where marinas are cheaper or more expensive, that changes the number for that area.

We try to consolidate marina visits with provisioning, topping off the house bank if we have been anchored a lot without running the mains, running the air conditioner during those extra-hot days, waiting out bad weather, avoiding weekend crowds in the more popular anchorages, or just relaxing.

Port calls involve more than just the cost of the marina. There's dining out, souvenir shops, admission to whatever cultural resources the area offers, even car rental if necessary.

 

[ranger58sb]

We are mid 60's age
We actually have enough that we could buy a 35/39 Mainship and hit
a marina every couple days maybe for a couple years then we would
have to thumb our way back home.
Seems like that nice stairway to the bridge on a mainship is gonna cost us fifty thou over a
ladder though...So we are now looking at sundecks.
I am not trying to be a tight azz but I see these huge bow sprits
(like a stainless railing is going to protect anything,) and patio sized
swim platforms and I am thinking that inside living space would be much more important.

Useful introductory recap...

As you look, you see lots of examples where "different strokes" has caused a given boat -- or feature -- to exist.

For example, as we've aged, we decided no more ladders... so IF we're going to have a flybridge, it's gonna have stairs. For others, stairs can be entirely beside the point... either younger folks with better knees, or no interest in a flying bridge, whatever.

Another example relevant to what you've mentioned is a swim platform; for us, it's just way easier to provide a place to mount the dinghy, and then from whence to get in/out of the thing... either to go to shore for supplies, or someplace to water a dog, or just to go exploring. For us, that platform is usable space... included in cockpit parties when necessary... because we don't live in "inside living space" all the time.

A third example is that sometimes I can put wifey, standing on pulpit, right next to a pile so she can more easily get a line around it... something that would maybe be more difficult -- a much longer reach for relatively short arms -- sometimes without the extended pulpit. Given that she does 90% of the deck work with lines while we're docking, everything that makes it easier for her makes it in turn easier for me.

But it's useful that you're recognizing what appeals to you, what features might best float your boat... and what best might suit your wallet...

-Chris

 

[BandB]

What kind of boat do you currently own? Difference between LOA and LWL isnt huge and I have a hunch you are in the pre planning phase- there are a lot more things to worry about than that while calculating. Use daily averages while mocking up your spreadsheet and refine it later. ActiveCaptain and Dockwa have a lot of it.

Let's be clear. LWL is waterline length and has nothing to do with any of this. It's significantly shorter than LOA (including pulpit and platform) and LOA without pulpit and platform, otherwise known as deck length or LOD. LWL is the length of the boat measured at the water level.

Now, as to how marinas charge, they all intend to charge by LOA including all appendages, which is also the documented length in the case of a documented boat.

 

[sledge]

So back to gfr51's questions: Yes marinas generally mean "LOA", i've heard some will even use a tape measure on a boat but i've been to many marinas and have not yet seen one do this. Most boaters don't sweat this since LWL and LOA difference tends to be maybe 3' on a 40-ish foot boat.
$8/foot in New York you say? ..yeah you do not want to ever pay that. the average in many other areas is more like $2/foot.
Now if you want to save money; try to spend a month at a time in a marina, then you get the lower monthly rate.
Are there other fees? Most of the marinas i've visited have only one other fee if anything and that's a small fee for shore power; its maybe 10% of the slip fee.
This is a fun way to spend retirement so if the two of you find you like it, you can actually live aboard for a long time while you explore. To offset cost some people do not keep a dirt home and they get a boat comfortable enough to live on. maybe they rent out their house, or they put their stuff in storage... or at least downsize your dirt home to make boating more feasible.
As for calling marinas; yeah they're often busy so its quicker to get that info on the web like others have mentioned, like Waterway Guide or Active Captain. Or Google to find the website dedicated to the marina itself and they often list their own rates.

 

[BandB]

Wifey B: We get the info for marinas by starting with Active Captain and then going to their website, then calling the ones we're thinking we'll use.

As to never worth $8 in NYC, North Cove is typically more like $6. Worth every penny for the location. Nothing in Manhattan comes cheap. Wait until you pay for dinner.

 

[boatpoker]

Wifey B: We get the info for marinas by starting with Active Captain and then going to their website, then calling the ones we're thinking we'll use.

As to never worth $8 in NYC, North Cove is typically more like $6. Worth every penny for the location. Nothing in Manhattan comes cheap. Wait until you pay for dinner.

We did three days at Liberty landing on September 11th a couple of years ago. We slept in the cockpit and watched the fireworks, the lights, the displays and a parade, did the Statue of Liberty and Ellis Island (not to be missed) and loved every minute of it.

Pretty damn pricey but well worth it as a treat to ourselves.

 

[JLD]

This is a fun way to spend retirement so if the two of you find you like it, you can actually live aboard for a long time while you explore. To offset cost some people do not keep a dirt home and they get a boat comfortable enough to live on. maybe they rent out their house, or they put their stuff in storage... or at least downsize your dirt home to make boating more feasible.

This is also what my wife hope to do!

We sold our home of 25 years, two months ago, and have moved into a rental house. Plan on staying here for 3 years until I retire. Then we are planning to move to Europe for a year and a half or so, and then cruise/travel domestically for a year. After that we plan on buying our retirement house and doing shorter (1-2 month trips).

Jim

 

[BandB]

We did three days at Liberty landing on September 11th a couple of years ago. We slept in the cockpit and watched the fireworks, the lights, the displays and a parade, did the Statue of Liberty and Ellis Island (not to be missed) and loved every minute of it.

Pretty damn pricey but well worth it as a treat to ourselves.

Wifey B: We liked the yacht club in Newport but don't know if it's ever reopening. Liberty Landing a bit of a pain to go back and forth to NYC but great location otherwise. A few years ago we saw the 4th of July fireworks from the boat in the East River. NYC is just so unique and incredible. Plus I do like to shop there.

 

[Seevee]

Not being flippant here.

But if you are that concerned about the minutia of marina costs to the extent that you have detailed.

Sell the boat.

Menzies,

That statement is not like you and certainly has no value.

Marina costs can be brutal.

I like Teds operation and hang on the hook the majority of the time. On my recent Loop trip, it was very easy to find anchoring spots on the ICW. Much easier than the inland rivers and lakes, but marinas were much cheaper there.

There's three big costs in causing. Fuel, marines and restaurants. Fuel is hard to control.... to a point. One can save a bundle by avoiding most marinas and most all restaurants. There was only perhaps one or two restaurants on the entire loop trip that was really worth while. And a good half of the marinas I docked at sucked. Some were outstanding, but not hard to avoid them.

There's only a few reasons to use a marina. 1. you're just too lazy to anchor, 2. reprovisioning 3. You need the power to top the batteries for a day. You can always fuel and leave. 4. visiting towns and taking your bikes out (if they won't fit on the dinghy.

One can make a HUGE difference in the costs by avoiding marinas and restaurants.

 

[chc]

Currently northbound on the ICW. We prefer anchoring, and did so a lot the first time around; 9 years ago. This trip we have holed up in marinas a fair amount, mostly to deal with bad weather. Accordingly, the trip costs have gone up. average seems to be $1.75/ft, plus $5-8.00 a day for electric. Use MTOA, Boat US, "we've been here before" discounts where ever possible. I suspect the trip will come out more in total costs, altho' fuel is lower this time. It is not that difficult, with a bit of planning, to make sure there is an anchorage handy at the end of the day. You piles up the $$ and goes.

 

[OldDan1943]

Then I am down to 2 reasons to dock.
Fuel - no control if you are down to the 1/3 mark on your fuel tanks.
Re-provisioning - I can cook.
(One can eat only so much fried Spam and Valvetta cheese. <puke>)
The only thing I would sort of need to buy is fresh meat, eggs and cheese and a loaf of bread. I generally have enough food (canned, frozen or fresh) to last at least a month for 2 people with the exception of eggs. I guess I could get the pasteurized eggs in a container or WWII powered eggs. (Just a joke)

 

[OldDan1943]

SOME marinas are willing to drive you into town to buy your provisions. I stayed at one marina that offered the use of their old car to get food. I sort of doubt they are still doing that.
Was funny, that same marina did not have a liquor license but, had beer in the fridge. I asked, how much for a can of beer. He said, 'It is free but, I will accept a donation.' LOL

 

[BandB]

Wifey B: We use marinas and for reasons of our own but different than those expressed here by some. We love to see the sights and experience the towns and communities. We also have more people on board than most of you. Therefore, marinas allow us to run back and forth to see things from morning to night. We also like to experience local restaurants on some days and eat aboard others. Our stays are as short as one night and as long as two weeks, but are typically 2 to 3 nights. We enjoy marinas. Also, the convenience of pump outs if we're staying long enough to need them.

We don't often need major provisioning as we go prepared, but we do like to regularly pick up fresh produce and desserts. As to fuel, typically only every 3rd, 4th or 5th stop unless we're in a fast boat traveling at 35 knots with a range of 200-250 nm. Then every stop. But cruising boat has minimum range of 600-800 nm although our loop boat at cruise only had 300 nm so needed fueling every other stop or so.

Just another way of doing things.

In a 40-50' boat, you can generally average $1.50-1.75 plus electric along the east coast.

 

[Woodland Hills]

I sure wish that those boasting about being able to anchor every night on the ICW would post how big their boats might be. And what their draft is......

I am 70 feet long and draw close to 6 feet, in 10 feet of water, my boat is twice as long as many people’s anchor rode! Even if the water is deep enough, there is often no room for us to swing safely even at 3:1, much less the 5:1 I prefer if too many others are in the anchorage

 

[timb]

Yesterday I looked at a marina above New Yorks' website that is asking over $8.00 a foot
for transient docking plus a premium for over 40 feet. so what $320 for a night onshore probably .

wow about twice that covers my boat payment , slip payment ,and association dues .for a month . (probably would be twice that again counting upgrades/repairs )

there are all kinds of budgets from bandb's all the way down to a peasant's like mine . anywhere in the middle is doable depending on what it takes to make you happy.

 

[OldDan1943]

Wifey B:
We don't often need major provisioning as we go prepared, but we do like to regularly pick up fresh produce and desserts. As to fuel, typically only every 3rd, 4th or 5th stop unless we're in a fast boat traveling at 35 knots with a range of 200-250 nm.

If my AT34 every got up to 35 knots, it would be on the front side of a wave. I would not enjoy the ride one tiny bit.

 

[timb]

I sure wish that those boasting about being able to anchor every night on the ICW would post how big their boats might be. And what their draft is......

I am 70 feet long and draw close to 6 feet, in 10 feet of water, my boat is twice as long as many people’s anchor rode! Even if the water is deep enough, there is often no room for us to swing safely even at 3:1, much less the 5:1 I prefer if too many others are in the anchorage

there is plenty of room in the Neuse but you have to take what the weather brings .( how bad do white caps rock a 70 ' at anchor? )

 

[Choices]

Only way I will go 35 knots is if you push it out of an airplane.......

 

[O C Diver]

I sure wish that those boasting about being able to anchor every night on the ICW would post how big their boats might be. And what their draft is......

I am 70 feet long and draw close to 6 feet, in 10 feet of water, my boat is twice as long as many people’s anchor rode! Even if the water is deep enough, there is often no room for us to swing safely even at 3:1, much less the 5:1 I prefer if too many others are in the anchorage

My boat is 50' overall and draw 4.5'. I tend to anchor 7:1 so have quite a bit of swing radius. If you want a list from Norfolk to Stuart, just ask.

Ted

 

[psneeld]

Not sure I know anyone that would even think of a 70 footer as an ICW boat.


Nor would I think I would need as protected anchorages as a 40 foot boat.


Cruising is what one makes of it, but at some point...the right boat for the cruising grounds.

 

[timb]

My boat is 50' overall and draw 4.5'. I tend to anchor 7:1 so have quite a bit of swing radius. If you want a list from Norfolk to Stuart, just ask.

Ted

one from coinjock to myrtle beach would make my day . i will not make it any further than that in the next ten years.

 

[Woodland Hills]

Not sure I know anyone that would even think of a 70 footer as an ICW boat.


Nor would I think I would need as protected anchorages as a 40 foot boat.


Cruising is what one makes of it, but at some point...the right boat for the cruising grounds.

Really? I thought the ICW was for commercial as well as recreational boats: there are more than a few vessels longer and deeper than us that use that waterway too, otherwise why is the ICW dredged to 15’ along so much of its length?

Given that we only travel in daylight, even if we travel outside all the time, we still need to come in to sleep. That means either marinas or anchoring somewhere, and that somewhere is the ICW or the harbor near the inlet which is typically on the ICW. So even if we never go one single mile on the ICW in transit, we still will be back there every night looking for a place to sleep.

What in your opinion is the controlling factor that makes us unsuitable for the ICW? The OAL, the draft or what? There sure seems to be a lot of commercial traffic that might take exception with the idea of 70’ oal being too big to travel the ICW.

 

[OldDan1943]

Woodland,
In theory maybe 15 ft. In reality, especially after a storm, you may be hunting for 10ft. Just about every fixed bridge has a delta to contend with..... I know Bakers Haul Over, north of Miami, has a BIG delta and one has the thread the needle close to shore and not hit the rocks.
The Corp of Engineers will dredge ports such as Ft Lauderdale and Miami because of the commercial traffic but, cuts with smaller fixed bridge are way down on the Corp of Engineers list of things to do.

 

[Irish Rambler]

I think I'd go for WifeyB's type of cruising as we like to explore new places, meeting old friends and making new ones as we enjoy our cruising life.

 

[psneeld]

Wodland Hills;752268]Really? I thought the ICW was for commercial as well as recreational boats: there are more than a few vessels longer and deeper than us that use that waterway too, otherwise why is the ICW dredged to 15’ along so much of its length?

Given that we only travel in daylight, even if we travel outside all the time, we still need to come in to sleep. That means either marinas or anchoring somewhere, and that somewhere is the ICW or the harbor near the inlet which is typically on the ICW. So even if we never go one single mile on the ICW in transit, we still will be back there every night looking for a place to sleep.

What in your opinion is the controlling factor that makes us unsuitable for the ICW? The OAL, the draft or what? There sure seems to be a lot of commercial traffic that might take exception with the idea of 70’ oal being too big to travel the ICW.[/QUOTE]


Seriously, you have answered most of your own questions.


And as rarely as much of the ICW has been dredged, again.simple. Most commercial traffic on the ICW is tug and barge or dredges anyway so bumping bottom, sitting on it or spudding down isn't an issue for them.


If I had a 70 footer, it would certainly be stabilized for running offshore, and there are plenty of decent anchorages just inside many of the major ports.


While the ICW may be dredged to accommodate commercial traffic to a small degree, it doesn't guarantee unlimited anchorage depths with swinging room at reguar intervals.


So like I said, no one I know with a 70 footer would plan an ICW crawl and expect regular anchorage stops, but in many places there are suitable ones for even a 6 plus foot draft.


Again, right boat for the right job....for most of us though, there are lenty of spots to anchor.

 

[Woodland Hills]

Gracious, we have no expectations of being able to anchor along the ICW. If you recall my first post I was simply asking that those who post about the surfeit of anchorages also post their boat size. That way if an anchorage is recommended we can see if it is suitable for us.

I will say that as efficient as running offshore may be, it is rather boring compared to the ICW route. We really do enjoy seeing into people’s backyards and observing the birds and other animals.

 

[hmason]

One of the pleasures of anchoring, at least for me is convenience. In the morning routine of simply raising the anchor and I'm on my way. In a marina it's unhook power, take the cord in, undo the water hose, go to the office and pay the bill, undo the lines, get underway, haul in the fenders, and coil the lines.

 

[psneeld]

Howard.....I always have to pay up front.


If you pay when you leave, skip the paying part, you get undetway faster and it's WAY less painful.


Just checked out a Grand Banks in Georgetown, SC..hoping it was you! Enjoy your summer!

 

[BandB]

Only way I will go 35 knots is if you push it out of an airplane.......

Wifey B: You guys make it sound like 35 knots is fast. I want 50-55 knots like we had on the lake. Now, I consider 70-80 knots like some of the Fountains and Cigarettes and Nor-techs to be fast, too fast for normal use.