Marine engine from China

[nabb]

Hi, I have just been introduced to a Chinese manufactured marine engine; The manufacturer is WEICHAI and model is WD10C300-21. May I know if any of you have come across marine engines from this company and how do they stand out. I understand their engines are used extensively in the far East and currently their products are on sale in Europe. How reliable and efficient are they. Somebody come to my rescue before I throw $$$$$$ down the drain.

Nabb

 

[CPseudonym]

Welcome back Nabb, long time no hear. How is the build going? Did you ever work through the prop size/kort nozzle problem?

 

[Mule]

Wellllllll, cheapest is not always the most inexpensive. Do they have dealers? Parts availability? So forth and so on. Gets real attractive if you do your own mechanicin and you can get parts.

Otherwise there is a creek we all know and love that paddles are non existent, then that cheap engine on the front end is not so attractive later on. Might be a good way to go, depends on whether you need dealer backup.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Yes but we should'nt label it unacceptable junk before doing the research. Building an engine isn't exactly difficult in this day and age so I'm thinking it could be even very good quality or average or not so good. Who would be the first ones to know how good they are? Not the buyers. It would take years for them to know. There probably is history on the manufacturer and many people that know the quality of their past products.

Does anyone know of an engine from an unlikely country to be building such a thing that has a record good or bad?

 

[Mule]

Eric, I hope you did not think I was questioning quality. Only supply chain, warranty back up and service if needed. I would venture to guess the engines are top notch. But if something goes wrong......

 

[CPseudonym]

Think third world nation. There is no such thing as a supply chain in the location Nabb is building his boat.

 

[BruceK]

There are small "Yanmar" copy 2cyl Chinese engines being sold here, by at least one knowledgeable and experienced boat engine dealer/mechanic. There are several Chinese outboards being retailed, one (Parsun) by a reputable marine seller, but check Ebay, some others don`t look good . The Kipor generator is said to effectively copy the Honda 2000. Chinese cars are on a learning curve imo, marine engines could be similar. Take care, I hope you get good answers, don`t rule them out.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Something to think about is that in the 50s and 60s we thought Japanese cars were junk. Soon it became obvious they were pretty good. Ford took apart some Japanese automatic transmissions to see what their tolerances were because there were FAR less auto trans failures on the Japanese cars. As far as Ford could tell they had zero tolerance. They either took the time to get it right or escalated the R&D to reject all deviant parts.

But my point is that we didn't know they were so good for some time. And for the same reasons it could happen again.

 

[BruceK]

Something to think about is that in the 50s and 60s we thought Japanese cars were junk. Soon it became obvious they were pretty good..

Same goes for Korean cars,gone from very ordinary to good cars, in 15 years. So don`t discount the newcomers, just check carefully before laying out $.

 

[FlyWright]

Can you expect improved efficiency, durability or reliability from the new engine? If the answer is no, why not go mainstream? Saving money?

In the long run, how much do you really save and at what cost? Is the risk worth the benefit?

 

[BandB]

The examples of Japanese and Korean cars were used. In both cases they got full dealerships offering their cars and service. Those dealerships were fully equipped to support the vehicles. Also, in both cases their warranty's were far beyond others offered.

Personally, I'm very conservative on new products, new entries into the marketplace. I'd rather let others sort things out, deal with the initial issues, help the builder mature, then I'll consider.

 

[FF]

IF it is a good engine the question asked about parts in 10 years is valid.

If its junk , bucks down the drain.

For low cost I would contemplate a common engine in the area , used and rebuilt with a warentee.

A 3-71 (60-80 Hp) might be enough with a Twin Disc should run decades.

And even in 40 years parts will be OTS.

The only problem is the local Air Police and their demand for Tier III , IV or whatever.

 

[ti325v]

Not that it ansewers any of the questions posed, but there are a heap of videos of Weichai engines on you tube..disassemble and reassembly...Actually do not look too bad.
If you are staying in the China area, and can get on the water reports why not ?
If you will be leaving the area, forget it and go with something you can count on for parts into the future...send from another isolated owner in Asia,
A quick search turned up some regional offices, and rebuild centers world wide...

 

[rardoin]

WEICHAI is a sponsor of Ferrari F1. You must pony up the big bucks to play in that arena. The thought of owning a vessel with a Chinese engine gives me the willies...maybe if it was a twin.

 

[nabb]

Thank you for your contribution in sorting this out. It is 50/50 situation. Well I have been checking on the company and their performance looks good on paper. They have been in the automotive business for the past 60 years. They manufacture marine engines in the range of 35Kw - 9000Kw. They are in partnership with Deutz Gmb of Germany for the manufacture of 35-168Kw marine engines and also with MAN of Germany for the manufacture of L27/38 & L32/40 engines. The group manufactures Baudouin (330-808Kw) marine engines in France.
It looks to me they have got some good experience under their belt. All their current engines meet IMO Tier II requirement.
The engine that I am interested in; WD6C300-21 is a 300hp @2100rpm TA, has got certification from China, Russia,Germany,Korea, England, Norway and Vietnam. They are also process of getting certification from Italy and America.
With these maybe I will give it a shot. If something goes wrong and I come back to the forum to complain, PLEASE don't tell me I told you so. Cheers

 

[nabb]

Criag,
I will be sending you some pictures of the time the boat was lunched. I went for a new propeller and its been fantastic so far.

I just found that there is dealership in Accra(the capital) that service trucks and generators that have WEICHAI engines. I am going to talk to those guys before I make any decision.

 

[CPseudonym]

Good news on the prop.

Nabb check your private message box for my new email address. I think you may still have my old one because I cannot find yours.

 

[Mule]

Looks good to me. How much % wise is the saving over Cummins, Cat, Yanmar?

 

[The Sally Ann]

If I might point one thing out. You will have a VERY hard time when you try to sell the boat. No one wants an off brand or obsolete motor. Hope this helps.

 

[BandB]

If I might point one thing out. You will have a VERY hard time when you try to sell the boat. No one wants an off brand or obsolete motor. Hope this helps.

I would agree if he was in the US. However, he's in Ghana and I have no idea there. As he indicated on parts and the supply chain, there's not one really on any engines there.

Still, I'm too conservative to go with it, but he is more willing to take the risk and that's fine.

 

[BruceK]

Someone has to be the early adopter. Maybe in 10 years they will follow the path to respect of some Asian car builders, I have nothing but respect for our 2nd car, a Hyundai i40 wagon, especially compared to the solid but pedestrian stuff they made first. It sounds like this mfr has some respectable connections.
Good luck with it nabb, if you proceed, and do tell us how it goes.

 

[The Sally Ann]

I can only point out what I have seen as a salesperson. We sell to offshore buyers and have buyers that buy offshore boats. In every case a non mainstream engine has been a deal killer. Even if the buying climate is different where he is building his boat will he keep the boat there when it is completed? I only point this out because I have had to explain to owners why their boat is not worth what other similar boats are worth or why their boat will not sell.

 

[BandB]

I can only point out what I have seen as a salesperson. We sell to offshore buyers and have buyers that buy offshore boats. In every case a non mainstream engine has been a deal killer. Even if the buying climate is different where he is building his boat will he keep the boat there when it is completed? I only point this out because I have had to explain to owners why their boat is not worth what other similar boats are worth or why their boat will not sell.

That's what I was talking about, where he lives. I assume that's where he'll keep it from what he said. I know the US market. I know nothing about the African market.

 

[123]

Thank you for your contribution in sorting this out. It is 50/50 situation. Well I have been checking on the company and their performance looks good on paper. They have been in the automotive business for the past 60 years. They manufacture marine engines in the range of 35Kw - 9000Kw. They are in partnership with Deutz Gmb of Germany for the manufacture of 35-168Kw marine engines and also with MAN of Germany for the manufacture of L27/38 & L32/40 engines. The group manufactures Baudouin (330-808Kw) marine engines in France.
It looks to me they have got some good experience under their belt. All their current engines meet IMO Tier II requirement.
The engine that I am interested in; WD6C300-21 is a 300hp @2100rpm TA, has got certification from China, Russia,Germany,Korea, England, Norway and Vietnam. They are also process of getting certification from Italy and America.
With these maybe I will give it a shot. If something goes wrong and I come back to the forum to complain, PLEASE don't tell me I told you so. Cheers

I believe that the WD10 - WD12 series are build under Steyr licence.

Their North-American website; Weichai America Corp. - Home

 

[nabb]

Looks good to me. How much % wise is the saving over Cummins, Cat, Yanmar?

I stand to make a saving of 45%.

 

[nabb]

I believe that the WD10 - WD12 series are build under Steyr licence.

Their North-American website; Weichai America Corp. - Home

That is right, they are built on STEYR technology from Austrian based STEYR DAIMLER PUCH.

 

[Dubnuh]

Folks, as I live in China, I can tell you that without a doubt any chinese engine not overseen by a multinational corporation is going to be made of subpar materials. It's my opinion based on 'local' knowledge, but likely to be a fact as well. The Chinese go out of their way to buy things that are not mfgd. on the mainland.
Sorry, but it wouldn't be worth the savings in my estimation.

 

[BandB]

doubt any chinese engine not overseen by a multinational corporation .

And you don't consider Weichai a multinational corporation? What about their parent, Shandong? Their revenue is over $15 Billion. I might add just since we're on a boat site, they do own the Ferretti Group which builds Ferretti, Riva, Pershing, Itama, Mochi Craft, CRN, and Custom Line. Now they are a Chinese government owned corporation but they are expanding their international presence significantly.

By multinational were you implying that they had to be headquartered somewhere other than China?

I know nothing about their product and as I've said I wouldn't buy it. However, I will not say that they can't build quality.

 

[Dubnuh]

BandB, I certainly cannot speak authoritatively to the WeiChai (HK listed co), or Shandong, but seek only to the concerns of the OP on this thread. I would not recommend trusting ones life to a mainland China machine. On the topic of Chinese Co's I am not so cut & dried. Lenovo is my primary PC, but then again the brains of it are designed and mfg'd by a US Corporation, Intel.
As to the specifics of this engine, my opinion may have been colored greatly by my acquaintances over here at Cummins & Caterpillar. The stories they tell are epic as well as concerning.
No offense intended.

 

[windmill29130]

Think about resale! Is anybody gonna want this engine in the boat they are buying, probably not.