:lol:I need to replace a broken window pane. teak frames inside and out. I cant see and place where the frame is screwed to anything -No bungs! Are these glued in somehow? I do see where the fixed pane is silicon glued to the fwd fixed pane. Maybe I should pry the inner frame off first? Then the fixed pane will come out when I pry the outer frame off???? HELP! Thanks
Marine Trader Windows????
- Thread starter geoleo
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
The outer frame holds the glass in. The inner frame is screwed to the cabin sides from the outside. Look for bungs in the corners and along each side of the outer frames. Each piece of frame has screws near the joints and spaced about 6-8 inches along each side. I had to locate my exterior bungs by sanding the frames. A multi tool makes faster work of separating the frame from the cabin wall. May also be used to cut stripped screws. And those that won’t back out because the material they are threaded in is rotted or otherwise damaged.
Donna
Guru
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2016
- Messages
- 1,231
- Location
- United States
- Vessel Name
- Southerly
- Vessel Make
- 1986 Marine Trader 36' Sundeck
I just saw this thread. I have replaced a couple on my marine trader. Believe it or not, installation varies from year to year. Mine is an 86. Yours?
Pete of EYC
Member
I am just beginning this process on my 84 Golden Star, what a tedious job! The multi tool is a definite help. Do you have any other tips such as solvents or sources for the window channels? The felt in several of the channels is rotted away.
Pete of EYC
Member
That is a good thought, I was also going to see if I could get a specialty tool that I saw an auto glass guy use.
ABOUT THAT WINDOW REPAIR-------
This is what I did and it came out great.
> Ladies and gentlemen the deed is done.
> Of the many ( untold thousands?) , worries, consternation ,
> commiserating with others and general gnashing of teeth all was worse
> than the project.
> Don't misunderstand and think that all went according to plan , with
> no mistakes, if so, I would not have been working on a boat.
> Like a dutifull Trawler World listee, CHB Owner listee and MTOA member I sought advice from all.
> This was reviewed studied and thoroughily digested. I then marshaled
> the equipment that MIGHT be required. This including a new propane
> bottle for my torch as one suggested a heated paint scraper , a guitar wire.
> Yes all said piano but when I went to the music store the man told me
> that the auto windshield installers use a heavey guitar wire so I got
> one, abt 2 bucks. He didnt have a piano wire!
> Hey, it does work and rather easily at that.
> I also picked up a STANLEY brand scoring tool. It is a hand tool (
> abt $7). This is what I used , in the end , to cut the mastic commonly referred to as Tawain 5200.
> On a Saturday I did a number of little projects trying to delay the
> inevitable but I finally bit the bullet and started removing the teak
> plugs over the screws. This was done with an old screw driver that I
> had sharpened to a very sharp point. I then cleaned the hole out with
> an old carburator adjusting tool that I had sharpened into a flat
> blade. Two things , this indicates how old I am to even have such a
> tool and secondly it has a head like a flat screw driver ( as my wife
> would say a "minus as opposed to a plus")so that it is easier to clean
> out the hole. I had installed a Lexan rain gutter above the window so this also came off.
> I then started on the mastic using the scoring knife. This was NOT
> nearly as difficult as I had imagined , feared and been warned. There
> was a LOT of mastic in there as many said. I tried the guitar wire and it does work.
> To use it I drilled a small hole through two blocks of wood and passed
> the wire through them to make handles.
> It saws real nice. First obstical were very small brass nails that had
> been driven to hold a piece of quarter inch plywood that in turn held
> the window in place while the mastic dried. It also was a filler
> between the inner and outer teak frames. Anyway these were in the way
> of the wire. I cut around them with the scoring knife. While doing
> this I kept pressure on the teak with, my First MISTAKE, several
> screwdrivers. I was essentially pealing the teak away from the outside
> wall of the boat AND the glass.I should have used putty knives for
> this ,I know better but did not even give it a thought. Well, the
> mastic was really holding tight to the glass and I cracked it. Trust
> me on this one I was remarkably calm not a blue word in site or
> hearing! The putty knives would have ,probably, spread the pressure a
> little more and could(?) have prevented the crack.
> At the outset it was never my intention to reinstall the old teak
> frame, after all IT was the cause of this little exercise.
> Nevertheless I did not destroy it. The frame was not joined at the
> corners other than with the mastic and the screws through the outside
> frame into the inner frame. In other words there was no rabbit joint
> or the like. The bottom line is that it came off in four separate pieces. The whole removal operation took less than two hours.
> WHAT I FOUND
> This window was well put together, I have no beef with Chung Hwa on
> this point.The frames were deeply dadoed to receive the mastic and
> glass to fit into the opening. The opening was rather well made with a
> fiberglass lip along the bottom and two sides but not the top. Dont
> know why it was not on the top but this was not the source of the leak anyway.
> The window was held up above the bottom of the frame with spacers so
> that there was a nice bead of sealant under it and all around for that
> matter.
> The screws that were driven from the outside (through the teak frame)
> were seated into the inner teak frame, these pulled the entire system
> together and made it weather tight. Not bad. The boat is a 1981 model
> and this is the only window that is leaking ( right now!). By the way these window units do not appear to be supporting anything but the window.
> I did not disturb the inner window frame.It is in good shape with no
> water damage at all. This made the whole project easier on the pocket book and esthetics as the inner frame was left intact. Another reason to address a leak PROMPTLY.
> THE REMEDY
> Since I was not planning on using the old teak ,an aluminum window
> frame was in order. There are several companies that make widows for
> boats , one in Canada and one in Loreauville, Louisiana about one hour
> from here! I visited a glass shop here that deals with both companies
> with the thought of purchasing one of their units. This would have
> required fiberglass work due to their windows having rounded radiuses
> in the corners and mine are square or pointed.
While discussing the remedy with the owner of the shop he suggested a much more palatable solution subsequent to an inspection of the pesky window.
I first drew an exact templet of the cracked glass to be used in cutting a new one and for the fabrication of an ALUMINUM frame. This frame consists of two inch wide by one quarter thick aluminum flat bar that is two inches LARGER than the window OPENING. This gives you two inches of lip in which to drive screws through the aluminum frame into the fiberglass and then into the inner teak frame. The other two inches is what holds the glass in place It is welded at each corner. The second part of the frame is a separate filler piece of aluminum flat bar three sixteenths thick by one half inch wide, likewise welded at the corners.
This piece fits on the inside of the wider one and is set to the inside dimension of the larger frame. This is all of the hardware needed. After I laid out the two frames, cut and fitted them , the welder took about thirty minutes to weld them. I then ground down the welds , sanded ,primed and painted the larger frame as it is the outside piece and the smaller one is not exposed. I used ss sheet metal (pan head) one and a quarter inches long. Holes , approximately four inches apart, were drilled for these about one half inch from the outer edge in the larger frame only ,as the smaller frame would sit inside of the larger one. Remember that the filler frame matches up with the inside measurement of the larger frame and would be between the larger frame and the glass.
Additional prep work involved cleaning of the old mastic and resealing the window opening where the fiberglass cabin side meets the inner teak frame. I used a copious amount of sealant here. Thus, when it was time to actually install the new frame we could cut to the chase and have no preliminaries with which to contend.
INSTALLATION
I COULD have done the installation alone but why when really competent and knowledgeable people with QUALITY GLASS right here in Patterson were available.
>>From the time that we arrived at the boat and completing the job was
>>but
two hours.
Here is the scene:
The teak inner frame is protruding into the window opening in the side of the cabin by about two inches and is dadoed to accept the glass. We set the glass temporarily in place and held it above the bottom of the dadoed edge with small pieces of rubber that were cut to fit with a razor blade. There were three or four of these and we are talking close fit here , like increasing and decreasing the thickness by one thirty-seconds at a time. This made the space between the teak frame and the outer glass cabin side uniform. We then removed the glass and laid down a bead of silicon on the inner frame and reset the glass on the rubber shims. The space was then filled with silicon. As the installers said "No water is going to get to this point but it will be a last defense if it should get by the outer seal(s)."
A strip of butyl rubber one quarter inch THICK by one quarter wide was placed on the outer (flat) edge of the glass and then the filler frame was set against the rubber. A bead of silicon was applied to the outer surface of the filler. A one half inch wide by three sixteenths thick band of butyl rubber was applied to the fiberglass cabin side where the the main frame was to be set and through which the screws would be driven. Let the screwing begin! They were gradually brought down tighter and tighter all around so as to avoid distortion. By the way I used small fiber washers on each screw to aid in preventing water intrusion around them and to keep the screw head from damaging the paint on the frame. Once the assembly was torqued down completely (this is critical as the torquing makes the seal by pulling the assembly together), a bead of 5200 was run all around to cover the butyl rubber and to form a nice finished look to the project.
The frame looks great but you say that " Now you have a bunch of teak windows and one aluminum one painted white". Well yes, but, since I have sun screens on all of the side windows you can't see the frames anyway!
I am extremely satisfied with this project and recommend it highly. I certainly never even considered reinstalling another teak frame. Should anyone elect to perform this operation, be aware that the actual construction of your windows will ,no doubt, vary from mine but the basics should apply.
It goes without saying that if anyone has any questions or comments I am ready to assist, feel free to contact me.
CCC
CHB 45 P/H
--
This is what I did and it came out great.
> Ladies and gentlemen the deed is done.
> Of the many ( untold thousands?) , worries, consternation ,
> commiserating with others and general gnashing of teeth all was worse
> than the project.
> Don't misunderstand and think that all went according to plan , with
> no mistakes, if so, I would not have been working on a boat.
> Like a dutifull Trawler World listee, CHB Owner listee and MTOA member I sought advice from all.
> This was reviewed studied and thoroughily digested. I then marshaled
> the equipment that MIGHT be required. This including a new propane
> bottle for my torch as one suggested a heated paint scraper , a guitar wire.
> Yes all said piano but when I went to the music store the man told me
> that the auto windshield installers use a heavey guitar wire so I got
> one, abt 2 bucks. He didnt have a piano wire!
> Hey, it does work and rather easily at that.
> I also picked up a STANLEY brand scoring tool. It is a hand tool (
> abt $7). This is what I used , in the end , to cut the mastic commonly referred to as Tawain 5200.
> On a Saturday I did a number of little projects trying to delay the
> inevitable but I finally bit the bullet and started removing the teak
> plugs over the screws. This was done with an old screw driver that I
> had sharpened to a very sharp point. I then cleaned the hole out with
> an old carburator adjusting tool that I had sharpened into a flat
> blade. Two things , this indicates how old I am to even have such a
> tool and secondly it has a head like a flat screw driver ( as my wife
> would say a "minus as opposed to a plus")so that it is easier to clean
> out the hole. I had installed a Lexan rain gutter above the window so this also came off.
> I then started on the mastic using the scoring knife. This was NOT
> nearly as difficult as I had imagined , feared and been warned. There
> was a LOT of mastic in there as many said. I tried the guitar wire and it does work.
> To use it I drilled a small hole through two blocks of wood and passed
> the wire through them to make handles.
> It saws real nice. First obstical were very small brass nails that had
> been driven to hold a piece of quarter inch plywood that in turn held
> the window in place while the mastic dried. It also was a filler
> between the inner and outer teak frames. Anyway these were in the way
> of the wire. I cut around them with the scoring knife. While doing
> this I kept pressure on the teak with, my First MISTAKE, several
> screwdrivers. I was essentially pealing the teak away from the outside
> wall of the boat AND the glass.I should have used putty knives for
> this ,I know better but did not even give it a thought. Well, the
> mastic was really holding tight to the glass and I cracked it. Trust
> me on this one I was remarkably calm not a blue word in site or
> hearing! The putty knives would have ,probably, spread the pressure a
> little more and could(?) have prevented the crack.
> At the outset it was never my intention to reinstall the old teak
> frame, after all IT was the cause of this little exercise.
> Nevertheless I did not destroy it. The frame was not joined at the
> corners other than with the mastic and the screws through the outside
> frame into the inner frame. In other words there was no rabbit joint
> or the like. The bottom line is that it came off in four separate pieces. The whole removal operation took less than two hours.
> WHAT I FOUND
> This window was well put together, I have no beef with Chung Hwa on
> this point.The frames were deeply dadoed to receive the mastic and
> glass to fit into the opening. The opening was rather well made with a
> fiberglass lip along the bottom and two sides but not the top. Dont
> know why it was not on the top but this was not the source of the leak anyway.
> The window was held up above the bottom of the frame with spacers so
> that there was a nice bead of sealant under it and all around for that
> matter.
> The screws that were driven from the outside (through the teak frame)
> were seated into the inner teak frame, these pulled the entire system
> together and made it weather tight. Not bad. The boat is a 1981 model
> and this is the only window that is leaking ( right now!). By the way these window units do not appear to be supporting anything but the window.
> I did not disturb the inner window frame.It is in good shape with no
> water damage at all. This made the whole project easier on the pocket book and esthetics as the inner frame was left intact. Another reason to address a leak PROMPTLY.
> THE REMEDY
> Since I was not planning on using the old teak ,an aluminum window
> frame was in order. There are several companies that make widows for
> boats , one in Canada and one in Loreauville, Louisiana about one hour
> from here! I visited a glass shop here that deals with both companies
> with the thought of purchasing one of their units. This would have
> required fiberglass work due to their windows having rounded radiuses
> in the corners and mine are square or pointed.
While discussing the remedy with the owner of the shop he suggested a much more palatable solution subsequent to an inspection of the pesky window.
I first drew an exact templet of the cracked glass to be used in cutting a new one and for the fabrication of an ALUMINUM frame. This frame consists of two inch wide by one quarter thick aluminum flat bar that is two inches LARGER than the window OPENING. This gives you two inches of lip in which to drive screws through the aluminum frame into the fiberglass and then into the inner teak frame. The other two inches is what holds the glass in place It is welded at each corner. The second part of the frame is a separate filler piece of aluminum flat bar three sixteenths thick by one half inch wide, likewise welded at the corners.
This piece fits on the inside of the wider one and is set to the inside dimension of the larger frame. This is all of the hardware needed. After I laid out the two frames, cut and fitted them , the welder took about thirty minutes to weld them. I then ground down the welds , sanded ,primed and painted the larger frame as it is the outside piece and the smaller one is not exposed. I used ss sheet metal (pan head) one and a quarter inches long. Holes , approximately four inches apart, were drilled for these about one half inch from the outer edge in the larger frame only ,as the smaller frame would sit inside of the larger one. Remember that the filler frame matches up with the inside measurement of the larger frame and would be between the larger frame and the glass.
Additional prep work involved cleaning of the old mastic and resealing the window opening where the fiberglass cabin side meets the inner teak frame. I used a copious amount of sealant here. Thus, when it was time to actually install the new frame we could cut to the chase and have no preliminaries with which to contend.
INSTALLATION
I COULD have done the installation alone but why when really competent and knowledgeable people with QUALITY GLASS right here in Patterson were available.
>>From the time that we arrived at the boat and completing the job was
>>but
two hours.
Here is the scene:
The teak inner frame is protruding into the window opening in the side of the cabin by about two inches and is dadoed to accept the glass. We set the glass temporarily in place and held it above the bottom of the dadoed edge with small pieces of rubber that were cut to fit with a razor blade. There were three or four of these and we are talking close fit here , like increasing and decreasing the thickness by one thirty-seconds at a time. This made the space between the teak frame and the outer glass cabin side uniform. We then removed the glass and laid down a bead of silicon on the inner frame and reset the glass on the rubber shims. The space was then filled with silicon. As the installers said "No water is going to get to this point but it will be a last defense if it should get by the outer seal(s)."
A strip of butyl rubber one quarter inch THICK by one quarter wide was placed on the outer (flat) edge of the glass and then the filler frame was set against the rubber. A bead of silicon was applied to the outer surface of the filler. A one half inch wide by three sixteenths thick band of butyl rubber was applied to the fiberglass cabin side where the the main frame was to be set and through which the screws would be driven. Let the screwing begin! They were gradually brought down tighter and tighter all around so as to avoid distortion. By the way I used small fiber washers on each screw to aid in preventing water intrusion around them and to keep the screw head from damaging the paint on the frame. Once the assembly was torqued down completely (this is critical as the torquing makes the seal by pulling the assembly together), a bead of 5200 was run all around to cover the butyl rubber and to form a nice finished look to the project.
The frame looks great but you say that " Now you have a bunch of teak windows and one aluminum one painted white". Well yes, but, since I have sun screens on all of the side windows you can't see the frames anyway!
I am extremely satisfied with this project and recommend it highly. I certainly never even considered reinstalling another teak frame. Should anyone elect to perform this operation, be aware that the actual construction of your windows will ,no doubt, vary from mine but the basics should apply.
It goes without saying that if anyone has any questions or comments I am ready to assist, feel free to contact me.
CCC
CHB 45 P/H
--
FalconPilot
Member
Any Photos?
That sounds like a great repair! Do you have any photos of it? Thanks!
That sounds like a great repair! Do you have any photos of it? Thanks!
Donna
Guru
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2016
- Messages
- 1,231
- Location
- United States
- Vessel Name
- Southerly
- Vessel Make
- 1986 Marine Trader 36' Sundeck
Donna
Guru
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2016
- Messages
- 1,231
- Location
- United States
- Vessel Name
- Southerly
- Vessel Make
- 1986 Marine Trader 36' Sundeck
He’s priceless!
Donna
Guru
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2016
- Messages
- 1,231
- Location
- United States
- Vessel Name
- Southerly
- Vessel Make
- 1986 Marine Trader 36' Sundeck
Yes
FalconPilot
Member
That looks fantastic! Want to come over and do mine? ��
