Mastervolt vs Victron

[tpbrady]

wKearney99,

I thought about doing that, but I shut the inverter down at night since we have a couple other AC devices operating off it. The Starlink draws enough power (between 4 and 5 amps) that I don't want to leave it on all night. The problem comes when we have been sitting at anchor all day, and want to top up the battery bank from the generator. I can deal with it but it shouldn't be that way. Even the old Heart Interface it replaced would go to bulk without being reset.

Tom

 

[ranger58sb]

You have found the same thing I have. The last few years it hasn't bothered me. This year it is a pain because when I shut the Multiplus off and back on to get it to go to bulk charging, it reboots my Starlink since all my outlets are run through the inverter. This is not covered in their documentation and takes what should be automatic and makes it manual.

One other thought comes to mind with Victron. Their Bluetooth implementation is poor. The range of the Bluetooth is about 6 feet. So don't count on using it for anything. I have to almost sit by the Smart Shunt to configure it.

Hadn't thought of things like your Starlink, but we don't really have anything that's bothered by the change-over. Our Wi-Fi router will reset, but when we're anchored there's no Wi-Fi signal to be routed anyway. Can't think of anything else that matters on ours...

I haven't noticed any Bluetooth issues. Seems to work all over the boat, near as I can remember. I'll have a look at that...

-Chris

 

[danderer]

Maybe I'm confused and not understanding the issue but my Victron installation (Multiplus + BMV-702) works as I expect. Did a couple quick tests this afternoon to confirm this.

1. Batteries in Storage mode. Float voltage is 13.8 (Rolls AGM). Remove power from the MP for a few hours. Battery voltage shows 12.5. Restore power to the MP and it goes into bulk mode.

2. Let the batteries charge for a bit to bring the surface voltage up. Remove power for a few minutes. Surface voltage is 13.3. Restore power and it goes into bulk.

3. Bring the batteries up to around 99%. Remove power for a little and then restore. MP goes into bulk and quickly switches to absorption.

All of this is what I would expect (and seems to be contrary to the doc cited here). I never turn the MP off explicitly, just use the breaker supplying power to it.

I'm running firmware 481 on the MP.

 

[Simi 60]

I agree that this is completely brain dead. Most chargers have a re-bulk setting where you can program the threshold for starting a new bulk cycle. And all chargers that I have encountered except for Victron start bulk cycle when AC power first appears.


.

There is a dip switch setting that I stumbled across reading my skylla manual that deactivated the "check" and starts in bulk.
Have not checked to see if my multiplus has same setting

 

[ranger58sb]

Maybe I'm confused and not understanding the issue but my Victron installation (Multiplus + BMV-702) works as I expect. Did a couple quick tests this afternoon to confirm this.

1. Batteries in Storage mode. Float voltage is 13.8 (Rolls AGM). Remove power from the MP for a few hours. Battery voltage shows 12.5. Restore power to the MP and it goes into bulk mode.

2. Let the batteries charge for a bit to bring the surface voltage up. Remove power for a few minutes. Surface voltage is 13.3. Restore power and it goes into bulk.

3. Bring the batteries up to around 99%. Remove power for a little and then restore. MP goes into bulk and quickly switches to absorption.

All of this is what I would expect (and seems to be contrary to the doc cited here). I never turn the MP off explicitly, just use the breaker supplying power to it.

I'm running firmware 481 on the MP.

I think your process is the equivalent of where I turn the unit OFF for a few seconds at the Multi Control.

If we're away from shore power in inverter mode..., and start the genset... the auto-transfer switch works... and the unit will start charging... in float mode.

Ditto if we return to the dock and hook up to shore power; the auto-transfer switch works, unit starts charging, in float mode.

We have to turn the unit off -- either at the Multi Control 3-way switch or at the breaker in the distribution panel -- before the unit will go to bulk mode.

I think it goes to bulk after OFF no matter whether we choose charger only, or inverter mode...

-Chris

 

[DDW]

Maybe I'm confused and not understanding the issue but my Victron installation (Multiplus + BMV-702) works as I expect. Did a couple quick tests this afternoon to confirm this.

1. Batteries in Storage mode. Float voltage is 13.8 (Rolls AGM). Remove power from the MP for a few hours. Battery voltage shows 12.5. Restore power to the MP and it goes into bulk mode.

2. Let the batteries charge for a bit to bring the surface voltage up. Remove power for a few minutes. Surface voltage is 13.3. Restore power and it goes into bulk.

3. Bring the batteries up to around 99%. Remove power for a little and then restore. MP goes into bulk and quickly switches to absorption.

All of this is what I would expect (and seems to be contrary to the doc cited here). I never turn the MP off explicitly, just use the breaker supplying power to it.

I'm running firmware 481 on the MP.

This is how I think mine works (though not near a shore power grid to verify). Also running v481. I've never had to turn it off to get it to rebulk.

However this is with AGM batteries where there is a larger difference between resting or slight discharge and float or bulk voltages. It may work differently on LFP settings, that I've no experience with on the Multiplus. The smaller Smart chargers definitely re-bulk even on LFP, and there is a setting for that as well.

 

[twistedtree]

There is a dip switch setting that I stumbled across reading my skylla manual that deactivated the "check" and starts in bulk.
Have not checked to see if my multiplus has same setting

My Skyllas have always worked fine. Turn on power and they go right into bulk.

 

[twistedtree]

Maybe I'm confused and not understanding the issue but my Victron installation (Multiplus + BMV-702) works as I expect. Did a couple quick tests this afternoon to confirm this.

1. Batteries in Storage mode. Float voltage is 13.8 (Rolls AGM). Remove power from the MP for a few hours. Battery voltage shows 12.5. Restore power to the MP and it goes into bulk mode.

2. Let the batteries charge for a bit to bring the surface voltage up. Remove power for a few minutes. Surface voltage is 13.3. Restore power and it goes into bulk.

3. Bring the batteries up to around 99%. Remove power for a little and then restore. MP goes into bulk and quickly switches to absorption.

All of this is what I would expect (and seems to be contrary to the doc cited here). I never turn the MP off explicitly, just use the breaker supplying power to it.

I'm running firmware 481 on the MP.

Your first test makes sense since the batteries are 1.3V below Float. I can't explain the other behavior, and why it's different for others. Perhaps it relates to the battery type or other Multi programming. There is lots of mystery buried in there.

 

[ranger58sb]

Maybe I'm confused and not understanding the issue but my Victron installation (Multiplus + BMV-702) works as I expect. Did a couple quick tests this afternoon to confirm this.

I'm running firmware 481 on the MP.

This is how I think mine works (though not near a shore power grid to verify). Also running v481. I've never had to turn it off to get it to rebulk.

How old are your units? Ours was installed new in May of last year (2022) and I'm hoping that's the latest firmware version. Looks like I either have to physically dismount the front panel to look at the microprocessor, or else use one of the other connection types (VE.bus, MK3-USB, etc.) to discover firmware version.

Our BMV-712 Smart is latest v4.13, says latest version.

I did just check auto-switching while in inverter/charger mode. Shorepower OFF. Back ON. The auto-transfer switch works, and the MultiPlus immediately restarts in float mode, not bulk. Possibly influenced by already having been in float mode on shorepower... so possibly not a useful test.

OTOH, turning the MultiPlus OFF using the "charger only/OFF/inverter" switch on the Multi-Control does cause the unit to go to bulk (very short period, then absorption...) on restart. Same results if I turn the inverter/charger OFF and then back ON using the breaker on the AC panel.

-Chris

 

[danderer]

How old are your units? Ours was installed new in May of last year (2022) and I'm hoping that's the latest firmware version. Looks like I either have to physically dismount the front panel to look at the microprocessor, or else use one of the other connection types (VE.bus, MK3-USB, etc.) to discover firmware version.

2020. I have upgraded the firmware a couple times though what I have now isn't the latest-and-greatest (because what I have seems to meet my needs just fine).

I've found the MK3-USB to be necessary to really get into the MP and configure it the way I want.

 

[DDW]

Mine is a Multiplus Compact 12/2000/80, purchased in 2019, upgraded firmware a couple of times and now on v481.

I just arrived at Anacortes and tried this. When plugged in, it goes to straight to bulk even if the batteries are already in the float condition (due to the solar). Goes to bulk for a few seconds, then advances to absorb until it times out or meets the float criteria.

Further, the Cerbo allows switching to Off, Charger Only, Inverter Only, or On (both charger and inverter). If I switch to inverter only, then back to On, again the charger goes into bulk. The inverter is never interrupted (for your Starlink or whatever).

As far as I can tell, mine all works as expected and as you would want.

The Multiplus is networked to the Cerbo and a BMV-702. Cerbo is running v3.00~32.

 

[ranger58sb]

2020. I have upgraded the firmware a couple times though what I have now isn't the latest-and-greatest (because what I have seems to meet my needs just fine).

I've found the MK3-USB to be necessary to really get into the MP and configure it the way I want.

Hmmm... a couple times since 2020 could well mean our 2022 firmware may not be v481. I have an MK3-USB, so I guess I could learn how to use it.

Mine is a Multiplus Compact 12/2000/80, purchased in 2019, upgraded firmware a couple of times and now on v481.

I just arrived at Anacortes and tried this. When plugged in, it goes to straight to bulk even if the batteries are already in the float condition (due to the solar). Goes to bulk for a few seconds, then advances to absorb until it times out or meets the float criteria.

Further, the Cerbo allows switching to Off, Charger Only, Inverter Only, or On (both charger and inverter). If I switch to inverter only, then back to On, again the charger goes into bulk. The inverter is never interrupted (for your Starlink or whatever).

Our Multi Control is slightly different. Options are Charger Only, OFF, or ON (both inverter and charger). Switching quickly from ON to Charger Only or vice versa (i., quickly passing through OFF) when we're on shore or generator power causes no interruption in pass-through services. IOW, the auto-transfer switch apparently solves all that.

The OFF works only when we dwell on it for a few seconds... and that interrupts service.

I think I have not fully examined the charging outcome from switching back and forth without dwelling on OFF. Even if that causes a change to bulk, it'd be a manual operation that doesn't seem necessary, to me.

The manual says the (original) firmware version number is visible on the microprocessor after removing the panel cover. I have an installer's (partial) pic of the inside of the unit, don't recognize anything with useful numbers like that.

-Chris

 

[mvweebles]

I went with Magnum. Victron is a never ending Tetris game of needing one more widget to make it do the last 20% of what you need it to do or display.

I do have Victron for MPPTs and Cerbo for display and controls. MPPTs are a bit finnicky on my setup needing occasional reset.

If i had it to do over, I'd go simpler ans avoid Victron. The only piece of Victron kit I would keep is the SmartShunt. Ton of good info off that.

Peter

 

[ranger58sb]

Hmmm... a couple times since 2020 could well mean our 2022 firmware may not be v481. I have an MK3-USB, so I guess I could learn how to use it.

The manual says the (original) firmware version number is visible on the microprocessor after removing the panel cover. I have an installer's (partial) pic of the inside of the unit, don't recognize anything with useful numbers like that.

I don't (yet) have the password to check our firmware version, but I see on the Victron Community that v496 was released on 4/19/22... so that could hint at where we are on ours now.

If we're on v496, I'd expect to see at least similar results as those with v481 see.

But so far, ours doesn't automatically switch to bulk charging unless I manually turn it OFF for a few seconds.

-Chris

 

[ranger58sb]

Hah! Got some help!

Our firmware is also version 481, on the chip and in VictronConnect.

So I'd expect to be having the same results as others... but its not sounding like it... unless our various descriptions are somehow not congruent.

-Chris

 

[DDW]

What is the exact model of inverter, and what control do you have?

The Cerbo gives more control over the inverter than the switches on the unit, and more control than the Color GX did. Perhaps this confirms Weebles thoughts that you always need something more, however the capability of the Victron far outstrips anything Magnum makes.

The release notes for versions after 481 mostly refer to things that aren't relevant on a boat (new models, different grid ties) so I have not updated beyond that.

 

[dutch-barge]

10 year old Mastervolt Combi 12-2500/100 inverter/charger failed. Looks like the newer Mastervolt unit closest to this is a Combimaster 12-3000/160. Anyone have experience with this?

Also, Victron has a 3000w, 120a, inverter charger that would fit in available real estate. They’re both about the same price. Anyone have experience with this unit?

Thanks in advance for your comments.

Dennis Carpenter
1998 36’ Island Gypsy Europa

well the advantage of Victron is 5 years warranty
AND
for 10 % of the purchase price you can buy and additional 5 years, so 10 years warranty......simple choice then

we have used the 3000/120 in our US boat and had great warranty, had a replacement unit shipped when it was acting up. ( the acting up was really cause by the new beta software on the Venus control system)

we have 2 3000/24 on our EU boat and great 'takes a beating and keeps on ticking'

 

[Nepidae]

Mastervolt v Victron

I had a Xantrex prior to our Victron MultiPlus 3000/12 and since the Victron was 10yrs newer it had a lot more benefits than the Xantrex.

I would imagine you will find the same with this update/upgrade.

I think Victron has a better name than Mastervolt and will have more benefits including what was mentioned with the Smart products.

I'd suggest you look at the benefits of each side by side and compare.

I'm surprised that the Victron isn't more expensive than Mastervolt. It seems from my reading on forums that people buy Mastervolt who want to save money (the cheaper route).

Good luck.

 

[ranger58sb]

What is the exact model of inverter, and what control do you have?

The Cerbo gives more control over the inverter than the switches on the unit, and more control than the Color GX did. Perhaps this confirms Weebles thoughts that you always need something more, however the capability of the Victron far outstrips anything Magnum makes.

The release notes for versions after 481 mostly refer to things that aren't relevant on a boat (new models, different grid ties) so I have not updated beyond that.

If that's for me, it's a 24 | 3000 | 70 - 50 | 120V (PMP243021102), with Digital Multi Control GX, and with BMV721 Smart monitor.

I didn't recognize anything additional in your Cerbo description -- compared to our Multi Control GX thing -- that might account for auto-bulk?

I can imagine there's some setting in ours somewhere that'd set different from somebody else's... but I don't see anything in the manual that makes any given setting like that obvious. I only partially know what I'm doing, though... only have half a clue at any given time...

-Chris

 

[DDW]

I don't know that the Cerbo would change anything, it does have a lot more capability than the one you have. But I would also think that the charge phase control would be self-contained in the inverter/charger.

You might try posing the question on the Victron forum, this is hit or miss: sometimes you get Mathias interested and you will get an authoritative answer, other times it is crickets.

 

[ranger58sb]

Thanks, I might try that.

Reviewing the configuration setting in the manual -- yet again -- I just don't see (or recognize?) any setting that would cause auto-bulk.

-Chris

 

[catalinajack]

CJ

Victron is likely the class leader when going all in on LFPs and solar. As us old timers have seen the inverter charger flavor of the year is constantly changing thus with a tweak or two some other manufacturer will gain favor.



Not too many are using large LFP systems with Magnum. Maybe we’ll hear otherwise but at this point Victron has the juice and the backing of the pros like Calder and Collins.

Ah, LFP has no attraction for me.

 

[catalinajack]

The Magnum is very pedestrian compared to either Victron or Mastervolt. I made the mistake of putting one in the camper, a mistake I will not repeat. It has now broken itself, giving me the opportunity to replace it.

Hmmm, my Magnum 2812 still lives after eight years of heavy use.

 

[DDW]

Hmmm, my Magnum 2812 still lives after eight years of heavy use.

Some people seem to like them. Mine ran for about 8 years too before it broke, didn't like every minute of it. Hummed loudly anytime the inverter was on, big idle current, SOC circuit did not account for its own parasitic draw. Happy to see its backside.

 

[mvweebles]

Some people seem to like them. Mine ran for about 8 years too before it broke, didn't like every minute of it. Hummed loudly anytime the inverter was on, big idle current, SOC circuit did not account for its own parasitic draw. Happy to see its backside.

I have the Magnum 3012 Hybrid inverter. Some fan noise but not much else. I decided to go with Magnum when I watched a very good electrician struggle with a friend's Victron trying to install an auto-gen-start.

Not sure I understand comment about SoC circuit. Mine seems to pull off battery voltage, same as the Victron SmartShunt which is instealled in series with the Magnum shunt.

Magnum no-load is 30W vs 20W for Victron, so a bit higher.

Peter