Navigation / communication replacement

[kpinnn]

I am planning on removing the current navigation and communication on a 36 ft Gulfstar trawler. This includes radar, autopilot, and fish finder. I want to be able to operate from both upper and lower helm. Any suggestions on manufacture. Once picked I will use that manufacturer exclusively.

 

[caltexflanc]

If it was me, I would pay up and choose Furuno; very high quality and great customer support many years and product generations after the sale. A networked (highly recommended) suite like you describe will cost a high percentage of that boat's overall value though, regardless of brand. You might consider used or closeout product a generation or two old.

There is also pretty good and thorough Marine Electronics Forum on The Hull Truth site. Of course you have fans and foes of all the different brands.

 

[Porgy]

Everyone has their preferences but I’d suggest you spend a lot of time at a marine store playing with the different brands. Determine which you find most intuitive, easiest to adjust and use for you and your crew. Customer support and legacy support vary some among them and should be factored in if that may be important to you. But I think in terms of quality, they all have their merits and their confirmation bias cheerleaders.

If you include VHF and AIS in your one brand preference you may be missing out on options by S-H, Icom, Vesper, etc. that might also be worth a look.

 

[rslifkin]

For VHFs, my votes go to Standard Horizon or Icom. Put 2 at one helm, then 2 remote mics for them at the other helm. That gives you use of 2 VHFs at either helm as needed (having 2 comes in handy at times).



A dedicated class B+ SOTDMA transceiver for AIS (of whatever brand you want) is a good idea. For the rest, it's somewhat down to which system you like best. Based on radar features, Furuno and Simrad are my current favorites with Furuno probably having the edge.

 

[Iggy]

If it was me, I would pay up and choose Furuno; very high quality and great customer support many years and product generations after the sale. A networked (highly recommended) suite like you describe will cost a high percentage of that boat's overall value though, regardless of brand. You might consider used or closeout product a generation or two old.

There is also pretty good and thorough Marine Electronics Forum on The Hull Truth site. Of course you have fans and foes of all the different brands.

I would tend to agree on Furuno too. I was using Garmin for years on my last few boats. It was good and I never had a problem. When I bought my last boat the past owner spent big bucks on a Simrad sonar with forward and downward transducers and a 12" MFD with an auto-pilot. All within a year old!

So, I have been playing with it and trying to learn the menu system. Its even easier than Garmin or you could say, more intuitive.

If this helps anyone! Since I was using Garmin and Homeport. I was able to down load my routes from Homeport and upload then into the Simrad MFD without any conversion to the file.

 

[Shrew]

Electronics is kind of like cars. If your first car (or your fathers cars) is a Ford you tend to be a 'Ford Guy', if you your first car (or your father's) is a Chevy, you tend to be a GM guy.

My first boat came with a Furuno radar (green screen) that had a gigantic golf ball sized 'target' in the center. I replaced with Raymarine since the local boat show (Boston) had a package deal (Display, GPS, Radar). I've been a Raymarine fan ever since, and tend to completely ignore Furuno.

On thing to note, Simrad seems to have a policy of destroying all parts for products once they go end of life. so getting stuff repaired becomes tricky. I tend to shy away from Simrad for that reason.

I've always looked at Hummingbird and Lowrance as being more Bass Boat/Lake Boat type stuff since that is where I saw a lot of stuff decades ago.

I've always looked at B & G as more sailboat oriented.

I like the chart look of Garmin. If it were me, I would be looking at Garmin or Raymarine.

Then again, as you can see, I am oddly opinionated.

 

[rslifkin]

I've always looked at B & G as more sailboat oriented.

That's correct. At this point, Simrad, Lowrance, and B&G are all made by Navico and very similar. Generally, B&G is targeted at sailboats, Lowrance is aimed at fishing and the lower end of the powerboat market, then Simrad covers the higher end powerboat / fishing market.

 

[ranger58sb]

We had Furuno most recently, and I liked it. Excellent customer support over our 11-year lifetime, too, although that was mostly just for a few questions here or there. IOW, never needed actual "service" (repair). One GPS, that came with the boat so was even older, eventually "timed out" (reached the end of the programming span) so I did eventually have to replace that... with a newer model, exact fit in the original hole.

(In my case, the boat came with a Furuno radar, and even through it was just a black and white (well, green and black) CRT, that was fine by me... so we built the rest of the system to work around that radar. It meant I couldn't overlay radar returns on the chartplotter, but that was a minor detail in my mind... partly because I do really like to have a dedicated radar display.)

Had Raymarine in the past; it was OK. That was 20 years ago, though...

Garmin has a reputation for being more intuitive, but I didn't find that to be the case when I've fiddled with friends' units. (Mostly when asked to help them figure out how to do something.) Garmin also has a reputation for near-immediate obsolescence; don't know if true or not.

-Chris

 

[Iggy]

"Garmin also has a reputation for near-immediate obsolescence; don't know if true or not."

Yes, I have two 740 and as of last year they stopped updating the firmware on it. It was introduced in 2012.

I can say that when I bought my boat it also came with a 9 year old Simrad 12" MFD for the fly bridge and they still are writing firmware updates for it. I am going to upgrade the 10 year old radar with a new one. What was interesting, Simrad makes a adapter, so I can use the existing radar cable.

 

[kpinnn]

Thanks, Interesting point about Simrad destroying parts. That bothers me.
Ken

 

[kpinnn]

Thanks, I have found Garmin to be very independent and not what I would call customer oriented. Obsolete in their middle name.
Ken
PS Looks like I am leaning toward Furuno.

 

[Iggy]

Thanks, Interesting point about Simrad destroying parts. That bothers me.
Ken

I do now that if the Feds have laws on the books. That anything sold in the U.S. must be supported for 5 years. At lest thats what we where told when I was working at Canon and Ricoh.

I don't see any firm destroying parts after 5 years. Thats $$ being tossed out. Canon and Ricoh would just sell off the older parts as customers ordered them. Than after 8 to 10 years than it would be tossed. It would cost more to store and keep inventory up to date than the part was worth.

 

[Iggy]

Thanks, I have found Garmin to be very independent and not what I would call customer oriented. Obsolete in their middle name.
Ken
PS Looks like I am leaning toward Furuno.

As mentioned, I too would go with Furuno.

I will give credit where credit is due. Garmin has been very good to me though the years. Very helpful and even sent me a few small parts for free.

 

[rsn48]

Here is popular video I post from time to time as an answer to your questions. Its well done and Jeff Cote has been a presenter at past and present boat shows in Seattle and Vancouver (based out of Vancouver). He has written numerous articles for boating magazines, accessible at his website. He is currently hosting short Q & A videos having recently removed himself from Pacific Yachting magazine as a monthly contributor.

You don't need to watch all the video but its a good overview of the boating electronic world and he gives suggestions on how to know what system is good for you. For example, I know Furuno is the best system but it isn't what I choose for reasons Jeff will mention in this video. Yet Furuno might be best for you.

 

[SoWhat]

Raymarine probably has the advantage of easy integration of MFD, autopilot, Radar, Sonar, AIS, etc.

 

[rslifkin]

Raymarine probably has the advantage of easy integration of MFD, autopilot, Radar, Sonar, AIS, etc.

Pretty much every major brand has all of those components and good integration between them at this point.

 

[Iggy]

Pretty much every major brand has all of those components and good integration between them at this point.

Who am I?? I think your 95% right! It just depends on who came out with the latest thing first and who is the first one to improve it.

As in the the above video, these is no such thing as the prefect system. Its all a compromise.

 

[rgano]

I have used a lot of different manufacturer's navigation equipment over my career afloat, and I have learned to not make judgments about them based on sketchy or short-term experiences with this stuff. My long-term experiences with Garmin leave me less than impressed, Ray Marine so-so, and Furuno a very positive experience. Coming from a Garmin to Furuno and then back to Garmin for a 30-day delivery last year farther impressed me with my fifteen year old Furuno plotter/sounder/AP/compass/AIS/radar system. In fact, I am so impressed with both the gear and the continuing Furuno tech support that I went out on eBay and bought backup pieces for a number of the major components.

 

[caltexflanc]

While I am a Furuno fan, and wouldn't change a thing if acquiring a boat 100% Furuno, if assembling a system from scratch I'd likely have a ComNav or Tecnautic autopilot and Standard Horizon Radios. Oh, and a black box Furuno system with Comark or other industrial monitors. Why? well, just because I like them, that's why. Most things play great together in today's world. I do understand the "one call does it all" attraction of a one-brand solution.

 

[johnma]

We have Furuno radar, plotters and sonar with a Simrad auto pilot. Also have a Garmin plotter as a backup. Some earlier comments are to network everything. When we bought our boat everything was networked and most still are. However, things become obsolete and break. If you are networked and you plotter for example breaks and cannot be repaired and must be replaced your new plotter may not work with the rest of your network. This happened to us so I just figured I would unplug the failed unit and get another. However the new one would not communicate with the older items. I had to have Furuno come in and piece things together so they could bypass some items in the network. They said if it goes down again everything must be replaced. The plotter was only 10 years old but it was obsolete.

 

[caltexflanc]

We have Furuno radar, plotters and sonar with a Simrad auto pilot. Also have a Garmin plotter as a backup. Some earlier comments are to network everything. When we bought our boat everything was networked and most still are. However, things become obsolete and break. If you are networked and you plotter for example breaks and cannot be repaired and must be replaced your new plotter may not work with the rest of your network. This happened to us so I just figured I would unplug the failed unit and get another. However the new one would not communicate with the older items. I had to have Furuno come in and piece things together so they could bypass some items in the network. They said if it goes down again everything must be replaced. The plotter was only 10 years old but it was obsolete.

NMEA 2000 has pretty much solved those issues. Furuno has always had pretty good backwards compatibility and been helpful when the confused yachtsman was trying to achieve it.

 

[NCheaven]

Delighted with my switch!

In 2019 I replaced Raymarine MFDs and radar after 14 years since OEM installation. One screen had gone snowy then progressively darker, and the GPS had me 50 yards up on the shore when transiting the Bay River cut between Pamlico and Neuse Rivers.

I asked my mechanic and the electric installer he recommended about manufacturers, and they both recommended Garmin. Of course I also read the marketing material for Raymarine, watched Garmin and other promotional videos, talked to electronics guys at retailers, too.

I bought the Garmin Touch Screens - 1242 for the upper helm and the 942 for the lower helm, and that has worked out great. Sun glare makes having the larger screen on top worth the money, and the 942 (biggest I could fit in the same space as the former Raymarine C8) is plenty bright and clear there. I chose the Garmin Fantom 18" radar, and am very pleased with that. Yes, the "bird setting" really does show birds! But that's not why I bought it. The boat trails and target enlarger on the screen make identifying targets much easier, and it's safer. I'm completely delighted with both MFDs and the radar.


I kept the old Raymarine autopilot controller and the older transducer. Both work great, and the sonar readings from the older transducer on the Garmin MFDs are outstanding.

So, that was my process of picking a manufacturer and the outcome. I elected to buy less expensive MFDs than Garmin's latest and greatest at the time MFDs, as functionality and maps were the same for my needs. But, I spent $500 more on the radar to get the newer radar technology, partially for safety - it uses only 40w transmitting microwave power over our heads instead of the much higher power of the old technology. Plus, the functionality of the new Fantom technology - similar to new tech from Raymarine, etc., does have better resolution and enhancement features.

This is just one boater's choice. I'm sure many other TF members made other choices for very good reasons. Enjoy doing the research and making great decisions for you and your boat!

 

[wkearney99]

I'm planning to replace two of the four Furuno MFD12 plotters on our EB47 with new TZT3 12 displays. One up on the flybridge, one down. I'll keep two of the old MFD12's as they're still working ok and I like having dual screens for vector/raster displays. I'm likewise planning on a new Furuno VHF. Everything else will still interface with it over the N2K and 0183 connections.

The driving reason for this has been the radome seems to have died and, frankly, I want better radar than the decade old tech that was in there. This, of course, leads to upgrade-itis as I'll probably have to re-do the mast mount to accommodate an open array. Furuno seems to have much better target differentiation than others. Costs more though, but it's not like I'll be doing it again anytime soon.

 

[Iggy]

My new to me boat came with two 12" MFD Simrads. There 9 years apart and are on the same network. They work just fine with each other.

I guess it depends on the make and and age. A ethernet network is the way to go but not everything uses it.

 

[FF]

One thing to remember is with most brands the newest most complex systems may not be built for your application.

I second Furuno , the oldest system they still sell new. Price will be fine and their support is excellent so you wont be stuck in a few weeks like some brands.

 

[ofer]

Another Furuno vote!

Simrad parts lack of availability is a terrible policy. will not buy their products.