New....HELP!

[Lollygag]

Older boats require more work. I don't care who built it, the marine environment is harsh. If you can (and like to) do your own work, it takes a lot less money than having a yard do it. The price of the boat should reflect how much work is needed. Read "Surveying 101" and crawl all around the boat poking and testing everything, then hire a surveyor and let him know you want to know all the dirt. Between the two of you most of the "faults" will be noted but be aware that there will be things that make you scratch you head and make up new curses. They are boats, after all.

 

[grant.gurney]

We have been looking for Defever 44s and island gypsy boats 36, 44 and even so called 47s. These boats all come from the early to mid 80s. They all vary in faults and issues and we try and remember these boats are all now 30 odd years old.

Find a good surveyor and stick with them, be there when they do the survey and you learn so much.

Some basics we work on
~ if the old steel tanks are still in then be so careful they are a big job to replace. Look for rust signs.
~ if the teak decks on the aft cabin or flybridge are bowed down be vary careful. Do little spring leg pushes against them, if that's ok very light jumps and finally a full on jump if u are sure the deck will handle it. Have someone inside and there should be no ceiling flexing
~ Hull lamination, blisters and worse osmosis can be managed but once you get to hull shaves that's real money
~ run the engines and do a sea trial yourself, look for vibrations at rev ranges which may indicate shaft issues.
~engines you need experts to assist who also understand how the engine marinization works.
~ electrics can be big if u are not confident, get advice

These are the big tickets, if the boat has any of these issues and you still like it negotiate the work into the price and fix it immediately, don't let it get worse.

Finally u can do so much yourself with a mobile phone, a torch, and a round the corner inspection camera.

Oh yes get the surveyor to do all this and more too.

 

[ranger58sb]

But the boat with the lay out that's the absolute best for me is a Marine Trader 34 Double Cabin.

The problem is I'm not very educated on Marine Trader.

There's an owners group online somewhere. MTOA, I think...

-Chris

 

[boatpoker]

Do your own Marine Survey 101

 

[BruceK]

Make notes as you inspect. If you see a number of boats you could have trouble distinguishing their respective plus and minus features and making comparisons later on. I made up a multi page form on a clipboard, with space for notes, to take to inspections.

 

[grant.gurney]

We have been looking for Defever 44s and island gypsy boats 36, 44 and even a so called 47. These boats all come from the early to mid 80s. They all vary in faults and issues and we try and remember these boats are all now 30 odd years old.

Find a good surveyor and stick with them, be there when they do the survey and you learn so much.

Some basics we work on
~ if the old steel tanks are still in then be so careful they are a big job to replace. Look for rust signs.
~ if the teak decks on the aft cabin or flybridge are bowed down be vary careful. Do little spring leg pushes against them, if that's ok very light jumps and finally a full on jump if u are sure the deck will handle it. Have someone inside and there should be no ceiling flexing
~ Hull lamination, blisters and worse osmosis can be managed but once you get to hull shaves that's real money
~ run the engines and do a sea trial yourself, look for vibrations at rev ranges which may indicate shaft issues.
~engines you need experts to assist who also understand how the engine marinization works.
~ electrics can be big if u are not confident, get advice

These are the big tickets, if the boat has any of these issues and you still like it negotiate the work into the price and fix it immediately, don't let it get worse.

Finally u can do so much yourself with a mobile phone, a torch, and a round the corner inspection camera.

Oh yes get the surveyor to do all this and more too.

One other biggee to keep in mind is has the boat been refurbished, if it has look and see if there have been changes which might affect the structural strength of the vessel. We found a beautiful boat but on closer inspection found that the wonderful renovation had removed structural supports, not very good once we checked the flybridge floor for strength.

 

[raider01]

Island Gypsy 47

One other biggee to keep in mind is has the boat been refurbished, if it has look and see if there have been changes which might affect the structural strength of the vessel. We found a beautiful boat but on closer inspection found that the wonderful renovation had removed structural supports, not very good once we checked the flybridge floor for strength.

Hi Grant, looks like you have dodged a bullet there. I have never heard of renovations affecting structural integrity of the boat but will take it on board.
I also noted your earlier mention regarding the fuel tanks, seems there's no shortage of forum stories about nightmarishly expensive fuel tank replacements that were totally out of the blue, and not picked up on inspection.
By the way what is an Island Gypsy 47 as I thought they only made a 44?

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings Mr. 01,
Welcome aboard.

 

[grant.gurney]

By the way what is an Island Gypsy 47 as I thought they only made a 44?

Hi Raider01,

You r right there is no such thing as an island gypsy 47. The one I was looking at was in fact a 44 with a lazarette tacked onto the back.

 

[Gmarr]

So - what did you decide on? I've just started looking and appreciate the outcomes of some of these threads.

 

[grant.gurney]

Hi Gmarr

A lot of water has passed under the hull since I last looked at this thread. We still have our 34 foot Norman Wright bay cruiser and the search for the 44 footer continues.

We recently looked at a 1980ish Island Gypsy with plate #1. Very interesting but the early design is so far from what was being developed in 1982-84 that we looked away.

We looked at another Island Gypsy 44 recently as well and on the surface the boat was quite nice. Bow thruster, excellent covers and nice interior. On the flip side the decks were bowed down (so good covers were essential), the teak decks were very tired, and the volvos were burning quite a bit of smoke.

I guess the reality is that boats older than 30 years are all ging to need serious work and serious money.

Recently a nice IG44 sold here in Brisbane for around 200K AUD but it had newly laid teak decks, total hull refurbishment and all water and fuel tanks replaced. Probably the best part of 130k AUD.

For our part with love the layout of IG44s but the Defever 44 (of which there are hardly any in Australia) seam a better build.

Good luck with the hunting.

G
PS. Old Fuel tanks, Teak Decks, Hull, Motors are the biggees to watch

 

[BruceK]

Her is a later series IG44 which recently came on the market in Sydney and may be of interest. I think I saw it anchored in Sugarloaf Bay once, it looked a nice boat. Used Island Gypsy 44 Europa Sedan for Sale | Boats For Sale | Yachthub

 

[grant.gurney]

Her is a later series IG44 which recently came on the market in Sydney and may be of interest. I think I saw it anchored in Sugarloaf Bay once, it looked a nice boat. Used Island Gypsy 44 Europa Sedan for Sale | Boats For Sale | Yachthub

Hi Bruce,

Yes mate it does look a nice boat. I do not mind the Europa style, but the Financial Controller has her heart set on the aft cabin version and as we move into our sixties climbing ladders is just getting a bit more problematic.

Thanks for your input thought we appreciate it.

G

 

[kabaret]

Be VERY careful of the older trawlers from Taiwan (Albin, Marine Trader, etc) that are anything but at the upper end of the asking prices or you know the owner and the history of maintenance. Do NOT rely on a surveyor to give the info necessary to make an informed purchase.

Sure there could be a deal of the century out there...all I am saying is be careful as these boats on average, even when they look spectacular have not been upgraded or well maintained beyond the obvious.


The hard things like complete plumbing or electrical or complete fitting resealing probably have been ignored and are costly or time consuming to bring up to good standards. Really check them out thoroughly before you think you are getting a good deal.


Many rant about what a great boat they got only to find just a few years later what a rats nest of outdated wiring, delaminated/soft decks and large areas of rot, delaminated hulls from hydrolysis, repeatedly patch but never upgraded water systems, leaking windows beyond repair....on and on....

I am looking at a 1974 34MT. The owner is saying it is wet in a number of areas so I have a fair feeling for what I am getting into. Are the hulls on these boats cored or solid?
Bill

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Welcome aboard Mr. k.

 

[Seevee]

I've done a lot of boat shopping over the year and have owned some odd 15 or so boats... a lot of small ones, but a few boats in the cruiser range 27 to 40 feet.

Overall, when you do older boat, you need to know the condition and maintenance history in detail. There are MANY issues that crop up.....

For "me", I'll pay a bit more for a later boat that may not be as big or have all the bells and whistles for better maintenance. Now, where that point is anyone's guess.....but in the boats that are "ball park" 10 to 20 year old, you'll find these.

They have pretty much depreciated where the value won't go done a big amount over the years. But, if they are in good shape with low hours, it can be a killer deal.

Also, there are older boats where someone had spend a TON of money making it perfect and get the itch for a newer one and those can be a killer deal.

I've got an acquaintance that's selling his 30 yr old Grand Banks look alike that he spend more dollars than he could get out of it with new engine and fuel tank. Someone will get a deal on that boat.

BUT, one needs to shop very carefully with any boat that starts to get age on it.......

 

[Peter B]

Hi Bruce,

Yes mate it does look a nice boat. I do not mind the Europa style, but the Financial Controller has her heart set on the aft cabin version and as we move into our sixties climbing ladders is just getting a bit more problematic.

Thanks for your input thought we appreciate it.

G

Think very seriously before passing on a Europa style in favour of an aft cabin. We were the other way round, I wanted aft cabin, my wife demanded and adft cockpit with the same level living walk in - walk out, indoor/outdoor lifestyle that allows, and so we waited until one came along. And you know, she was right..! For the number of times you actually take other (non-close-family) away over-nighting, compared to the sheer practicality of the larger saloon and the sheltered and protected one-level, (no climbing stairs), outdoor sitting area, so valuable when entertaining day sail type guests, there is no comparison - for most, I should add.

 

[geoleo]

I'm shopping my heart out, with my wife's list of demands in hand. Having looked at just about every boat afloat, I really like the Albin 36. I've even seen a few long in the tooth Mainship 34s that I'm temped to spruce up and stuff a larger engine in. Kind of a super trawler/sport fish hybrid. But the boat with the lay out that's the absolute best for me is a Marine Trader 34 Double Cabin.

There are other boats that feel better built, are faster or have a particular feature I like. But the foot print of the MT34 is literally what I'd design if I were starting from scratch.
The problem is I'm not very educated on Marine Trader.
I'm an odd one, I like older, more classic boats.
If I have the cash in hand to buy the latest and greatest trawler on the market I wouldn't. I've already factored in some refitting after I buy the boat. I just don't want to end up on a repair treadmill, run out of cash, and end up with the same number of usable trawler I have now.......zero

So what do you guys think?
I'm aware of the window issue, what else do I need to be looking out for?
I'm finding good looking boats for around $40k(79-85ish). A lot of them have new top side paint and teak looks reasonable. What else do I need to know about these boats?

Thanks in advance

I bought a 1982 MTDC and just brought it home in a 300 mile trip-part in open Gulf of Mexico. I love it! It is well built and I was luck to get a well cared for one!

 

[geoleo]

I think at this point I'm going to just assume the boat has leaky windows and start there, if I end up with a Marine Trader. If I fix/replace the windows and didn't need to, at least I'll have new windows

I'm a little nervous about the fuel tanks.....actually very nervous.
Has anyone done theirs?
If I'm forced to replace the tank I have a guy who'll make a custom tank for me. If I could carry more fuel on bard that would be a silver lining, and take some of the sting out of the repair.

The wire issue is the least challenging for me.
I have a background in chasing wires and crawling through tight spaces.
Don't particularly want to, but it's doable.

I guess if I wanted a maintenance free boat I should have stuck with my kayak
It's a little perplexing how folks who own other brand boats bad mouth Marine Trader while MT owners don't really reflect their criticism. I'm starting to think it's the boat equivalent of Chevy vs Ford.

If anyone here has taken on any of the about jobs feel free to expound on your experience.
And if any MT owners want to show off their boats area Tampa Bay, beers on me

Dear CBrooks, I have a new to me 1982 MT docked in Clearwater- you are welcome to come see it. Just PM me

 

[gonesailing13]

Bought a '92 MT two years ago, down in Fla. Everybody told me it was just a matter of time before I would have to replace the fuel tanks and sure enough last summer they started to leak. Wasn't up to doing the job myself but did get my son to cut out the old tanks. ( not fun ) When the yard figured out what size tanks I could get back in without moving anything I went and had them made, it did save me some money.Only down side was that I now have less fuel tank size but I can live with that. All in the yard cost was around eight thousand. Plus the tank cost and a couple of dinners and breakfast for my son.

 

[GrandBanksBandit]

I cut out 2-200 gal tanks with a small Rigid (home depot brand) one handed recip saw.


Bottoms were full of gunk but fuel and fuel filters always perfect...probably because I like calm seas.


Replaced with 2-58 gal Moeller poly tanks..love being able to see into them and empty them at the end of the season till my following years trip to/from Florida.


100 Gallons gets me from Jersey to Norfolk no problem...about 300 miles with plenty of reserve. I could have put in more tanks...but love the storage and 300 miles per leg for now is good enough.


Messy job but not too hard on a single engine...twins a different story.

What kind of boat do you have? We’re Looking at the Moeller 58 gal for our GB32. Can I see a picture of how you secured them in place?

 

[psneeld]

What kind of boat do you have? We’re Looking at the Moeller 58 gal for our GB32. Can I see a picture of how you secured them in place?

City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011


There are wooden blocks that are screwed into the engine room overhead that lock into strap slots on top of the tanks.