New long range cruising brand

[MichaelB1969]

Looks like a cross between a Beneteau and Cranchi. With all that glass, hard to imagine it getting an Ocean A Category rating.

 

[Bruce B]

And I'll toss in a comment that everything must not "make sense" to another person or be financially justifiable. If you expect that then no boat makes sense. If a Corvette with the largest available engine is the car of one's dream and they can afford it then it makes perfect sense. Things only have to make sense to one person, the one doing them. People don't have to justify their choices.

Yet we try so hard to do exactly that. I'd wager that at least some of our desire for communal support of the obviously irrational springs from self doubt...
It often makes for interesting discussion though, especially when people refrain from ridiculing different opinions.
Bruce

 

[BandB]

Yet we try so hard to do exactly that. I'd wager that at least some of our desire for communal support of the obviously irrational springs from self doubt...
It often makes for interesting discussion though, especially when people refrain from ridiculing different opinions.
Bruce

We also get a lot of threads of "Should I?" followed by "No" and "No" and "No" and "No" and "No" and then "Thanks for the advice, I'm going to do it."

People ask often for advice when their minds are already firmly made up.

We like Jet Ribs rather than outboard. Yet, I guarantee that if I asked what people here think about them, it would be at least 98% against. However, none of that would change our mind. We like them. Plus the people responding likely have never owned one and wouldn't.

 

[Simi 60]

And I'll toss in a comment that everything must not "make sense" to another person or be financially justifiable. If you expect that then no boat makes sense..

A boat can make perfect sense.

Ours is as comfortable as our house and has a larger entertaining deck and a spa.
The views are infinately better, there are mostly no neigbours and if I find them annoying I can easily relocate.
There are no council rates and no electricity bills or other utilities and taxes to pay for.
The best part is that all that costs about 1/8th of what our house would cost.

If comparing like for like and getting 3 bedroom waterfront property with outstanding views, large entertaining deck and spa we are probably 20x better off.

 

[Bruce B]

We also get a lot of threads of "Should I?" followed by "No" and "No" and "No" and "No" and "No" and then "Thanks for the advice, I'm going to do it."

People ask often for advice when their minds are already firmly made up.

We like Jet Ribs rather than outboard. Yet, I guarantee that if I asked what people here think about them, it would be at least 98% against. However, none of that would change our mind. We like them. Plus the people responding likely have never owned one and wouldn't.

I'm certainly guilty of the "Should I" question syndrome...
I actually found it a fun exercise to pose the questions here. If nothing else it clears the way by helping to be sure that you have not missed any obvious points in your own thought process.
Bruce

 

[Bruce B]

A boat can make perfect sense.

Ours is as comfortable as our house and has a larger entertaining deck and a spa.
The views are infinately better, there are mostly no neigbours and if I find them annoying I can easily relocate.
There are no council rates and no electricity bills or other utilities and taxes to pay for.
The best part is that all that costs about 1/8th of what our house would cost.

If comparing like for like and getting 3 bedroom waterfront property with outstanding views, large entertaining deck and spa we are probably 20x better off.

I love being on the water. I regard boating as one of life's great gifts and both my wife and I do all we can to get as much time aboard as we can.
I can not imagine wanting to give up our house though.
We have a small home in a lovely area. We are close to the water and although there is no view, you can hear the sounds and smell the ocean.
Life is good!

Bruce

 

[BandB]

I love being on the water. I regard boating as one of life's great gifts and both my wife and I do all we can to get as much time aboard as we can.

Boating is like music or art as it can give you such a wonderful feeling.

 

[North Baltic sea]

They are both sports cars and if the speed limit is 100kph what sense is there in paying exhorbitant amounts extra for something that can't realisticly be used?

But, your example doesn't really have much to do with paying a large price to save a small amount of fuel.

Why put money into the boat, could have rehdä the same money investors in housing and getting a good financial return. Now, just expenses, the list is long of the

Big Mac is almost the same indexi US and Finland 5.05 5.06 cost of living level of the same. boat gallon of diesel costs $ 6.40 here would be interesting bead it.

I think the fuel consumption is significant for two reasons, money and loads of nature (sailing still better)

Either you are a) a wealthy b) it is cheap to you c) you remain closed d) other reasons

 

[BandB]

Why put money into the boat, could have rehdä the same money investors in housing and getting a good financial return. Now, just expenses, the list is long of the

Big Mac is almost the same indexi US and Finland 5.05 5.06 cost of living level of the same. boat gallon of diesel costs $ 6.40 here would be interesting bead it.

I think the fuel consumption is significant for two reasons, money and loads of nature (sailing still better)

Either you are a) a wealthy b) it is cheap to you c) you remain closed d) other reasons

I think you're missing his point. First, our diesel price is less than half of yours, just to mention that. But his point is he wouldn't put a huge amount extra in a boat to save a small amount on fuel as fuel even at your prices is a relatively small amount in comparison to the cost of the boat and then all the other associated costs of ownership.

And your last paragraph of reasons omits one or two reasons and they are aa) the fuel savings doesn't cost justify the extra cost to achieve it, bb) I am personally very attracted by different boats and find the boat being discussed very unappealing. Just simple personal preference.

 

[smitty477]

Boats need to have different capabilities for different needs, but when folks speak about long range and blue water capable there are things we look at before we are concerned about fuel use. IMO sea keeping will/should come into play with potential boats before we begin to be concerned about fuel efficiency or looks - safety and comfort.
Before looking at the fuel use or the boats 'appeal' it has merit to look at fixed characteristics on this boat such as weight (16,500#'s) length (47') width (14') and the boat plans that show a plumb bow, flat aft section, low deadrise, spray rails, lack of keel all with a single engine and prop.
If you are not happy with the way a boat behaves in passages that you will typically be making then all the fuel efficiency in the world will not offer much consolation.


If I were looking for this type of boat that is where I would begin my concern(s).

 

[BandB]

Boats need to have different capabilities for different needs, but when folks speak about long range and blue water capable there are things we look at before we are concerned about fuel use. IMO sea keeping will/should come into play with potential boats before we begin to be concerned about fuel efficiency or looks - safety and comfort.
Before looking at the fuel use or the boats 'appeal' it has merit to look at fixed characteristics on this boat such as weight (16,500#'s) length (47') width (14') and the boat plans that show a plumb bow, flat aft section, low deadrise, spray rails, lack of keel all with a single engine and prop.
If you are not happy with the way a boat behaves in passages that you will typically be making then all the fuel efficiency in the world will not offer much consolation.


If I were looking for this type of boat that is where I would begin my concern(s).

And in this case, there is no way I'm attempting to cross oceans in a 16,500 lb powerboat. Oh, yes, I know sailors cross in small boats. But that's not me. Plus there are a lot of rescues of small sail boats.

 

[Bruce B]

And in this case, there is no way I'm attempting to cross oceans in a 16,500 lb powerboat. Oh, yes, I know sailors cross in small boats. But that's not me. Plus there are a lot of rescues of small sail boats.

Lots of rescues of large boats for that matter!
This is really way off topic but I am always amazed at the boats that venture offshore and their general condition.
People have bigger cojones than I!
Bruce

 

[BandB]

Lots of rescues of large boats for that matter!
This is really way off topic but I am always amazed at the boats that venture offshore and their general condition.
People have bigger cojones than I!
Bruce

And some not rescued, such as El Faro. Some people do stupid things. I may do some stupid things occasionally but I don't do stupid things that put my life at risk.

 

[Bruce B]

And some not rescued, such as El Faro. Some people do stupid things. I may do some stupid things occasionally but I don't do stupid things that put my life at risk.

I try, I really, really try to avoid doing things that increase my chance of death!
Bruce

 

[Nomad Willy]

I'd love to have a 22' (half size) version of the "Coupe" w OB power.

This is a compromise boat. The real serious boat for long range and seaworthiness will definitely be a fairly heavy FD hulled boat that looks almost nothing like this boat. And this boat at very slow speeds is actually a FD boat. No question about it. However no boat that is supposed to be exceedingly seaworthy will have a huge aft deck platform .. like this boat. But I like it.

 

[Flyyboyrich]

Dose anyone own a Cranchi. Looking at a 43 eco trawler but can't find many reviews on this Italian manurfacture. Any feedback would. E appreciated.

 

[BandB]

Dose anyone own a Cranchi. Looking at a 43 eco trawler but can't find many reviews on this Italian manurfacture. Any feedback would. E appreciated.

Boattest.com and powerandmotoryacht.com have plenty of Cranchi reviews. Now, they will all be favorable but you can still learn some things about them. Won't hear much about them in the US because very few ever make it here.

 

[MichaelB1969]

Boattest.com and powerandmotoryacht.com have plenty of Cranchi reviews. Now, they will all be favorable but you can still learn some things about them. Won't hear much about them in the US because very few ever make it here.

Don't know much about the Cranchi but I've been on one and it was nice. I think it had pod drives and was around 50 feet. I remember it being really spacious. Fit and finish seemed pretty good as well. Exterior styling wasn't my cup of tea, but overall seemed like a pretty usable boat.

 

[f508]

Is that the boat, or the box it comes in?

 

[FF]

"At 7500 kg, it's one of the lightest 44' boats I've ever heard of."

It will be very hard to have a comfortable cruising experience unless calm water is sought.

Offshore ., perhaps , but not for long or in the rough.

 

[BandB]

Yes, back to the OP and the thread title. Two key words, "New Brand." Now, the two words that immediately pop into my head, "Stay Away." I don't care what it is, I don't want a new brand. Let them work out the issues with someone else, prove themselves a few years, then I'll consider it. Most new brands never even make it to production and, if they do, never sell more than one or two boats at a loss. I'm not a gambler on boats. If I want to gamble I'll go to a casino.

 

[Cottontop]

Yes, back to the OP and the thread title. Two key words, "New Brand." Now, the two words that immediately pop into my head, "Stay Away." I don't care what it is, I don't want a new brand. Let them work out the issues with someone else, prove themselves a few years, then I'll consider it. Most new brands never even make it to production and, if they do, never sell more than one or two boats at a loss. I'm not a gambler on boats. If I want to gamble I'll go to a casino.

Thank goodness everyone is not as risk averse as you, or there would never be progress.

And don't forget, we cannot learn from the mistakes of others unless they are out there making mistakes. Don't discourage them.

 

[BandB]

Thank goodness everyone is not as risk averse as you, or there would never be progress.

And don't forget, we cannot learn from the mistakes of others unless they are out there making mistakes. Don't discourage them.

Well, I believe the builder should take the chance. Build one. Test it. Make sure it's good. Sell it. i'd buy that one, but not buying #1 without it actually existing. Yes, my strategy is costly, but a builder who can't afford to build one boat speculatively is not one I'd want to deal with anyway. I don't believe the consumer should be the one gambling.

 

[FF]

"Well, I believe the builder should take the chance. Build one. Test it. Make sure it's good."

Great theory , but sometimes you could get bit.

Back in the day, GRP boat molds were taken from a wooden hull. Had to be super fair.

Franz Mass came up with a technique to make a simple plug and cover it with AIREX.

The foam is Swiss and quite expensive , and laying up on a male plug requires lots of fairing. The plug would be removed and the inside glassed making a true composite.

He built a racer , and had a great racing season.

Of course he built the mold from his racer and sold bunches.

As the copies were single skin they were heavier and not as stiff as the plug boat.

I'm sure it cost 2x as much to fair a male layup , but it sold a lot of boats , and there was no wood hull to toss away.

Caviat Emptor

Airex cored boats are still built for Pilot boats and the euro military .,they are willing to pay for light , strong ad tough.

 

[Cottontop]

Well, I believe the builder should take the chance. Build one. Test it. Make sure it's good. Sell it. i'd buy that one, but not buying #1 without it actually existing. Yes, my strategy is costly, but a builder who can't afford to build one boat speculatively is not one I'd want to deal with anyway. I don't believe the consumer should be the one gambling.

Production builders are very, very reluctant to make changes, and for good reasons (cost, efficiency, quality, dependability), and if they do make changes, it's only after long periods of testing, by themselves or others. It's the one-off, custom builds that make revolutionary changes.

 

[BandB]

"Well, I believe the builder should take the chance. Build one. Test it. Make sure it's good."

Great theory , but sometimes you could get bit.

.

So, you're saying the risk should all be transferred to the customer?

 

[BandB]

Production builders are very, very reluctant to make changes, and for good reasons (cost, efficiency, quality, dependability), and if they do make changes, it's only after long periods of testing, by themselves or others. It's the one-off, custom builds that make revolutionary changes.

Outside those like Feadship and Oceanco and Lurssen, there are not very many truly custom one-off builders. There are a lot who customize within a hull, but don't build a lot of custom hulls. Virtually none that I would trust on a one-off or custom hull outside of the $30 million and up yacht builders. I've seen too many people get burned badly. Here we're talking about not just a new boat, but an entirely new brand, new builder, with no history, nothing a consumer can go on. These are the ones I'm saying should build a boat, prove themselves, then proceed from there. For those who want to gamble with them, that's their choice, but I wouldn't personally unless they had a boat I could trial and get surveyed.

 

[Jeff F]

Outside those like Feadship and Oceanco and Lurssen, there are not very many truly custom one-off builders. There are a lot who customize within a hull, but don't build a lot of custom hulls. Virtually none that I would trust on a one-off or custom hull outside of the $30 million and up yacht builders.

I don't think there are any shortage of quailty custom builders in the < 5mm range. Not familiar with custom powerboats, but have had experience with many custom sailboats over the years.

In fact there are several builders in my neighborhood that have produced hundreds of custom builds over several decades. I'm sure there are many more on the coasts.

http://kantermarine.com/
http://www.bruckmannyachts.com/

 

[BandB]

I don't think there are any shortage of quailty custom builders in the < 5mm range. Not familiar with custom powerboats, but have had experience with many custom sailboats over the years.

In fact there are several builders in my neighborhood that have produced hundreds of custom builds over several decades. I'm sure there are many more on the coasts.

Welcome - kantermarine
Bruckmann Yachts

Those are both primarily builders of semi-custom, not custom. However, i was talking powerboats since the boat that is the topic of this thread is power and this forum is primarily power. There are a few custom SF's being built on the east coast, although most are existing hulls. I'm not aware of other custom builders in North America other than Delta. I'm sure there are some small ones.

I will speak strictly to the boat that this thread is about. Until they produce one that I could trial and get surveyed, there is no way I would consider them. New Brand, new boat. No thanks.

 

[Jeff F]

I was talking powerboats since the boat that is the topic of this thread is power and this forum is primarily power.

As was I. The two builders I pointed to have produced mostly power for some time now. They both have established international reputations, but neither has spent big $$ on establishing their brands in the glossies.

You may choose not to engage a small builder, but to suggest that it takes a $30 million budget to consider a bespoke boat and that there aren't established builders who can take on smaller custom builds with full professionalism is what prompted me to respond. It's not true.

[/QUOTE]