No-GPS Chart Plotter

[OldDan1943]

Its not the soundings that worry me, its the majors changes in ATON, restricted/prohibited areas, etc.....

And like I said, electronic can be downloaded just prior to departure, ordering a whole new set of charts.....wasteful in my book as I am not going to go through the weekly USCG notices and update the charts like one is supposed to when I can download a dozen or way more in minutes for free (USA at least).

ZOWNS!!! I never gave them much thought. These days if we are in the wrong place at the wrong time, our next visitors will arrive quickly, loaded for bear, and tell you to leave and perhaps boarded for a closer inspection.

Usually if there are ship movements, there will be tugs and a few or more of those armed ribs buzzing around the ship or submarine.

 

[NCheaven]

Do Real Paper Charts Count?

Compass, dividers, straight edge, hand bearing compass w/ wind gauge? Being a little older does have some advantages! Those sailboat races with tiny marks initially over the horizon helped us learn! Paper Charts were the ONLY WAY when I started sailing years ago, and by the grace of God, I had a friend in grad school who had served in the Coast Guard to teach me boating skills while we were in school and for a few years afterward. I took a USCGA course back then, too.

My challenge is to teach my grandchildren how to use paper charts, and to have the good sense to take USCGA, US Power Squadron and Boaters University courses along the way, and for me to keep taking refresher courses. Applied Geometry can be especially rewarding if it keeps us off looming shoals!

Whether long or short, a well managed cruise is so fulfilling. When completing such a cruise, don't we all feel a desire to resupply and get back out on the water? That urge is just one measure of how well captain and crew performed!

Thanks for raising this topic and for all the great observations by TF contributors!

(Is it Spring yet? Is it Spring yet? Is it Spring yet?.....Glad to have a patient Admiral as I pace about the house asking that question three times a day.....)

Stay healthy! Shots, masks and Vitamin D3........

 

[NCheaven]

A Wyoming cowboy told me years ago that a good cattle drive starts at the breakfast table. A good cruise starts with reviewing the paper chart every morning so that everyone on board can literally see what the plan is - not merely follow the purple line on the MFD. That early morning review of the chart simply feels so good, along with identifying the day's objective and weather holes out of shipping lanes for shelter if storms come up. Involving everyone in that early morning chart review and contingency plan is a sweet moment, especially if the coffee is ready.

 

[Peter Pegasus]

GPS has many vulnerabilities--solar flares, EMP, but also plain old malevolent actors. A good update on some of these is here
https://www.newyorker.com/tech/annals-of-technology/how-vulnerable-is-gps
As you all know, GPS is often more accurate than maps, but algorithms can put you in strange places. And even redundant GPS units can fail for local reasons--dropped, flat batteries and no spares, lightning. Paper charts and updated regularly coordinates, compass, depth sounder, are simple backups that help with situational awareness. There's no substitute.

 

[Northern Spy]

That's when you learn to navigate with your compass, stop watch, and speed log. Dead reckoning was a good thing.

GPS satellites is a relevantly new method of navigation. The first one was launched in 1990 and was not operational until 1995-1997 with C/A code for civil users. From 1997- 2004 it was for government use, and and some civil use. In 2005 they launched the M code for advanced military operations. There are 24 primary satellites with 4 back up units. We are now on GPS III with IIIF laser reflectors and have 32 units in full operation at all times.

You must be VERY young.

Your dates are way off.

First bird up in the 70s. Personally used GPS in the 80s in the USN. First Gulf War vets cleared the shelves of them in the early 90s. Used it in agriculture in the mid 90s. Bought my first two civilian handhelds pre 2000.

Heck. I hid my first geocache in 2001.

 

[backinblue]

I'm thinking the same thing. If GPS goes down, it's probably going to be a result of most of the satellites being shot out of the sky as the opening to WW3.

Was there a lot of recreational boating going on during WW2? I'm too young to know.

If satellites are being shot out of the sky, you probably have bigger worries. It's far more likely your own GPS will malfunction. Even if paper charts are not updated with the latest details and even if a compass is off a couple degrees, I am very confident they could get me home or to my next port if needed.

 

[NCheaven]

Peter is right about GPS accuracy

When my 15 year old Raymarine MFD nav. package showed that my boat was about 50 yards up on the shore while transiting the ICW Hobucken Cut from the Pamlico River to the Bay River towards the Neuse, I realized that it was time to buy a new MFD package. The Garmin package has me back in the water in that ICW section. I assume that the Raymarine package was initially accurate, - don't know for sure, new to me boat at the time. Learned from that experience to check accuracy against various fixed references on the way seaward from my home marina at the start of each cruise. Buying a new to you boat? Be sure to check position accuracy on your nav system before doing a 700 mile delivery. I didn't. (Change fuel filters, have fuel polished..... too many "I didn't" items, but good boat, great engine, safe travels.

 

[rslifkin]

Personally, I skip the paper charts for a few reasons (even though I do have parallel bars and a few other things on board). The big reason is that I don't have a good spot to work with a large paper chart near the helm. Small charts would be do-able, but for anything big, I'd need to put someone else at the helm while I go deal with the charts.



Beyond that, even with loss of GPS, by the time I can't manage to keep at least some form of electronic chart (plotter, laptop, cell phone) working, I've probably got much bigger problems to deal with. Basically, I'd need to have failures in multiple independent systems. And even if I've got power problems, the laptop and cell phone have their own batteries. Plus, my engines need power to run, so if I lose all ability to produce power (both engine alternators, generator or both battery chargers, solar) then I've got a limited amount of time to run anyway, as eventually the engine batteries will get too low to keep the engines running.

 

[psneeld]

When my 15 year old Raymarine MFD nav. package showed that my boat was about 50 yards up on the shore while transiting the ICW Hobucken Cut from the Pamlico River to the Bay River towards the Neuse, I realized that it was time to buy a new MFD package. The Garmin package has me back in the water in that ICW section. I assume that the Raymarine package was initially accurate, - don't know for sure, new to me boat at the time. Learned from that experience to check accuracy against various fixed references on the way seaward from my home marina at the start of each cruise. Buying a new to you boat? Be sure to check position accuracy on your nav system before doing a 700 mile delivery. I didn't. (Change fuel filters, have fuel polished..... too many "I didn't" items, but good boat, great engine, safe travels.

Probably more a fault of the charting package than the actual GPS.

 

[FF]

IF anyone likes historic navigation gear I have a Motorola Sat Nav that was used before GPS .

The set only gave a fix every few hours as a sat came into view , and has to be on for about an hour first to stabilize .

All the sats are dead now, but its a great piece of history.

Make an offer.

 

[backinblue]

Most new GNSS (Global Navigation Satellite Systems) use more than one satellite navigation system. Most use the US’s GPS and Russia’s GLONASS. China, Japan and India are also deploying GNSS that may be used one of these days as well. This provides good redundancy but not perfect if electronics fail.

Dead Reckoning (DR) on paper charts in conjunction with methods to verify position like sextant, depth sounders, radars, compass embedded binoculars, etc. are a fall back to electronic failures.

Fixing a position requires more than 1 satellite. It's not a matter of redundancy.

 

[Group9]

I started sailing, with nothing but paper charts, dividers, compass rose, etc, hand bearing compasses, RDF, etc (I never learned celestial navigation as I was in the process of trying to when cheap GPS units came out) but I don't mind saying, that I sure love my GPS chartplotter!

But, I still mark my course and time, on a paper chart any time I am out of sight of land (and even most of the time, when I'm just coast cruising, for fun).

Then at least you can dead reckon your way along if you lose GPS positioning (which can happen for a variety of reason, although not that likely with proper back ups).

 

[backinblue]

I started sailing, with nothing but paper charts, dividers, compass rose, etc, hand bearing compasses, RDF, etc (I never learned celestial navigation as I was in the process of trying to when cheap GPS units came out) but I don't mind saying, that I sure love my GPS chartplotter!

That's pretty much my story too. Although GPS was not exactly "cheap" when it first came out. My first unit, very early in GPS days, had no chart at all, it just gave out numerical coordinates of your current position, which at that time was miraculous on its own.

 

[Group9]

That's pretty much my story too. Although GPS was not exactly "cheap" when it first came out. My first unit, very early in GPS days, had no chart at all, it just gave out numerical coordinates of your current position, which at that time was miraculous on its own.

Yeah, my first one, a Magellan 310, only did lats-loss and direct course to those lat-lons. But, a lot of people forget about SATNAV, that was around before GPS, but a hell of a lot more expensive. Like $4000 for a receiver about the time GPS came out.