NOAA Request for Comment - Replace "Feet" with "Meters" as unit of measure???

[SteveK]

I tried to show that only at the equator is latitude and longitude the same measurement.

The distance between degrees of longitude is about 60 nautical miles at the equator. It is less further north or south as the longitude lines converge towards the poles. Degrees of latitude are always 60 nautical miles apart.

A nautical mile is slightly longer than a mile on land, equaling 1.1508 land-measured (or statute) miles. The nautical mile is based on the Earth's longitude and latitude coordinates, with one nautical mile equaling one minute of latitude.

In the context of this thread I was trying to discuss how would the established Lat/Long be adapted to a metric system.
Nautical mile = 6000 feet = 1.852 KM = 1852 metre

A change would require redrawing Lat/Long to make sense

 

[AlaskaProf]

There is also a BBC 2-part drama by the same name, "Longitude," in which you can see Mr. Harrison's actual H-1 clock in operation. Utterly hypnotic.

 

[dhays]

There is also a BBC 2-part drama by the same name, "Longitude," in which you can see Mr. Harrison's actual H-1 clock in operation. Utterly hypnotic.

Being able to see the clock would be pretty cool. It was an amazing achievement. Very humbling to think about.

 

[twistedtree]

Just for some fun..... I have been doing some land exploration in conjunction with old surveys where everything is in rods, which is 16.5'. Original roads here are all 3 rods wide, and I just put together than an acre is 160 sq rods. So there are bits of self-consistency in these otherwise arbitrary measurements.

 

[slowgoesit]

Waaah, in Metric, my 50' boat will only be 15.24 meters
Wait . . . . Does that mean I won't pay as much for moorage?!? Might be a good idea . . . . Just kidding, it's time to join the rest of the world . . .

 

[mvweebles]

There is also a BBC 2-part drama by the same name, "Longitude," in which you can see Mr. Harrison's actual H-1 clock in operation. Utterly hypnotic.

Thanks! I found the BBC movie on YouTube. It's actually three parts and a bit over three hours. Not sure I'll make it through the entire movie ....

Enjoy

Peter

 

[AlaskaProf]

Worth your time, especially when Stephen Fry submits his solution.

 

[Bmarler]

Wow, looking up Harrison’s h1 was a rabbit hole…

 

[AlaskaProf]

Wow, looking up Harrison’s h1 was a rabbit hole…

Properly so; it is one of the greatest of man's achievements.

 

[AlaskaProf]

Wow, looking up Harrison’s h1 was a rabbit hole…

Hah! here: This one will keep you watching

 

[Bmarler]

Hah! here: This one will keep you watching

Lol, stop it!

 

[Bmarler]

Hah! here: This one will keep you watching

Oh, I already went down that rabbit hole.

 

[Blissboat]

Original roads here are all 3 rods wide, and I just put together than an acre is 160 sq rods.

Interesting. Where is "here," other than the USA?

 

[Hawkshaw1]

The metric system is superior in every way. We should have joined the rest of the world on this decades (or more) ago.

On a related note, try adding 3 7/16 plus 2x 11/32 for a wood or metal project and then try it in millimeters. Its embarrassing that we still cling to Imperial measurements. The absolute only reason we’ve stayed with it is because that’s the way we’ve always done it.

Off the soapbox, but I support any change to metric that is available, including NOAA wave heights.

Ask three people to spread their arms to show you how long a meter is. Then, ask the same for one foot or three feet. Most people have no idea how long a meter is.
That's our problem. We don't "think" in the metric system. I can because our physics teacher, in 1981, had meter sticks lying around in the lab.

He also converted his old Ford V8 to V4. We thought he was crazy because we just wanted our cars to go faster. He was the person who explained a bigger carb didn't change the volume of the engine and how a turbocharger or a supercharger did. He was a good teacher. Not relevant, I know.

Hawk

 

[Don L]

I summited "feet"

I am OK wit meters, but but till the US goes meteric

 

[Admiral Westlake]

Don’t go metric! I have been confused since we changed systems here in Canada. Can you imagine watching an NFL game and the running back makes it to the 40 yard line, but it’s not the 40 yard line anymore, it’s the 37.5 metre line. Or how about watching a professional golfer hitting a great shot for 300 yards, but the commentators take a commercial break so they can figure out how many metres the ball actually travelled!

 

[twistedtree]

Don’t go metric! I have been confused since we changed systems here in Canada. Can you imagine watching an NFL game and the running back makes it to the 40 yard line, but it’s not the 40 yard line anymore, it’s the 37.5 metre line. Or how about watching a professional golfer hitting a great shot for 300 yards, but the commentators take a commercial break so they can figure out how many metres the ball actually travelled!

Just change it from yards to meters and call it a day.

 

[twistedtree]

Interesting. Where is "here," other than the USA?

Rural Vermont

 

[Don L]

I summited "feet"

I am OK wit meters, but but till the US goes meteric

I got a follow up on a Sunday from NOAA. So they are reading the responses.

 

[mvweebles]

I got a follow up on a Sunday from NOAA. So they are reading the responses.

I received a response too (below). No surprise - sounds like there is strong resistance to change. In general, folks want things to be different but want someone else to change, not themselves.

Hi Peter,​

​

We sent out an earlier proposal and got LOTS of feedback for keeping feet for the Offshore Zones and - especially - for the Coastal Waters. We are exploring the possibility of providing both feet and meters for our Offshore zones.​

 

[Don L]

and there there are ........................... fathoms on the charts

 

[SteveK]

and there there are ........................... fathoms on the charts

yabut that is 6 feet

 

[marcs]

and there there are ........................... fathoms on the charts

Not for long. Changing ("rescheming") NOAA chart's data to meters has been underway for a while now. You can see the progress at ArcGIS Web Application

https://nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/publications/docs/nautical-charting-plan.pdf contains all sorts of fun things, including:

Metrification
Nearly all of NOAA’s paper nautical charts had individual
soundings and depth contours compiled in feet or fathoms
The IHO S-57 product specification for ENC requires depths
and depth contours to be encoded in meters When ENCs
were initially created, the unit conversion from feet and
fathoms to meters was accomplished during the chart
digitization process Soundings deeper than 30 meters
are encoded and displayed in full (integer) meter values;
shallower soundings are encoded and shown as meters and
tenths of meters (decimeters) using a subscript.

Figure 4 shows an area of ENC coverage in which the depth
contours in the top portion are compiled in feet The four
contours for 6, 12, 18, and 30 feet are displayed in their
metric equivalents—rounded down to the nearest tenth The
bottom portion shows newly “metrified” contours compiled
for 2, 5, 10, and 15 meters Ultimately, reschemed ENCs will
show the even meter contours specified for S-57 and S-101
ENCs For a 1:10,000 harbor scale, band 5 ENC cell, the meter
depth contours could be as dense as 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 15,
20, 30, 50, 100, 150, 200, 300, etc , for areas with a gently sloping seabed Steeper areas will show fewer contours

Recompiling new metric depth contours requires interpolating even meter depth values between soundings, but the distribution of soundings shown on nautical charts is not dense enough to accomplish this New metric contours are compiled from NOAA’s National Bathymetric Source This is high-resolution bathymetry composed of the best available historic and newly acquired data from NOAA and U S Army Corps of Engineers hydrographic surveys, and other sources The National Bathymetric Source combines these sources into one nationwide model of the seafloor. Ultimately, all reschemed ENCs will show even meter contours .

 

[Bmarler]

I suppose I could get used to charts in meter/decimeter, once I figured out my number for the boat. It’s just math.

 

[FWT]

If it’s so easy to make the translation, then leave it alone and let the metric lovers translate.

 

[psneeld]

As navigation increasingly goes electrical/computer/MFD based anyway and charts are electronic ENCs instead of paper/electronic Raster...swapping back and forth on depth units is or will be a simple menu setting.

 

[mvweebles]

As a reminder, the RFC from NOAA is for high seas weather forecasts, not depth soundings; though I realize those would be on the continuum of evolution in time.

Peter

 

[psneeld]

I was addressing those who posted about depths...but for weather/wave forecasts, who knows....newer computers/phones with AI in the near future may be able convert all measurements automatically for those that need/want it.

For me, I am with Bmarler on this.... it's all simple math and none of my navigation in 60 years required the precision much beyond a simple mental math conversion. Much of the time, instruments and charts and the environment leave you with sub-accurate info anyhow .....unless you are doing scientific work with VERY tight controlling measures in place.

 

[Shrew]

Can we please join the rest of the world?

Agreed, working in metric length and sizes is WAY easier and WAY more intuitive. I had to side my house and the only tape measure I had that was long enough had metric on one side, and I was on the ladder that ended up with the metric side of the tape up. I ended up doing the entire project in metric. I was amazed how much easier it was. Same with metric tools. So much easier than reducing fractions. (On the other hand, SAE tools could do us all a favor and just size in 16th's (1/2, 1/4, 3/8, 7/16). Goodness just call it 8/16th and make SAE work like metric!!!

Now I will admit, I have a hard time getting my head around metric volume. And Celsius might be great for science, but for weather Celsius is just stupid.

75F = 23.8889C
95F = 35 C

That is too much difference in temp for only 11.11 degrees of difference.

 

[SteveK]

when we switched to metric for temp 21*C I adopted with 21X2+30=72F until 21* became natural