Nordic Tug Flybridge stability

[Captain BW]

We recently looked at a Nordic 37 Tug flybridge and went through the offer process which has fallen through unfortunately. One of the things we noticed while looking at the boat was that it seemed to roll side to side fairly easily. After having done a lot of research on Nordics and finding them to be of high quality, we were never able to determine if the flybridge model roll is a common issue, and now that we are continuing our search I am interested in what this forum community has to say about the stability.

Hoping that some flybridge model owners can shed light on it.

Thank you!!

 

[DavidM]

I don’t think that there is anything unique or wrong with the NT’s stability on the flybridge. It has a semi displacement hull with no hull ballast, the same as lots of others.

David

 

[rslifkin]

How easily you can generate a small angle roll on a boat (in other words, how tender it feels) doesn't necessarily relate to its ultimate stability, although it may relate to comfort.

 

[Greg QS]

If your not used to a bridge boat , that may be the reason. More Hight = more roll. The higher you are the more you feel it.

 

[ancora]

Had a good buddy that had a 42' NT and never used the flybridge for that reason...too much roll.

 

[firehoser75]

I can't speak to the actual differences in real stability between the NT 37 models (Pilothouse vs Flybridge), but the higher up you are (away from the surface of the water), any roll will be more noticeable. I would also suspect that having a higher centre of gravity would also affect roll?

When boat shopping, we noticed several other brands/models of boats "rock" (some significantly) when boarding at the dock, but this did not happen with our Pilothouse NT 37. It was very stable in that regard.

However, like many semi-displacement hulls without active (or paravane) stabilization, the boat does tend to roll (more than is comfortable) in a beam sea, and less so in a following sea. Course and/or speed adjustments resolved that issue to very acceptable levels (and we did some "open ocean" (meaning unprotected to the open Pacific Ocean but still coastal in nature) passages in confidence and reasonable comfort.
The flybridge model would also present more windage, potentially making docking in winds more challenging. Personally, we did not want a flybridge model.
We loved our Nordic Tug, and highly recommend them for Coastal cruising, with the 37 (and newer) models being a great couples boat with occasional guests.
Good luck.

 

[catalinajack]

Get a stabilzed DeFever of any length and roll will be much, much less. An unstabilized DeFever will behave like that Nordic. Some boats roll more than others.

 

[Nomad Willy]

If your not used to a bridge boat , that may be the reason. More Hight = more roll. The higher you are the more you feel it.

And a wide hard chined boat will probably have this feature. FD and you’ve got more roll yet. …. but it’s slow and easy to live with.

 

[Mako]

Can’t beat the laws of nature either… mass.

Heavier will give a better motion. You can try to fight physics with gyro stabilization and flume tanks and floppers and of course huge infusions of cash, but you may wish to consider seriously massive vessels instead of a 22000lb boat.

 

[TJM]

I think the comfort level is affected the most. I remember our first beam sea with a starboard wind. OMG I thought we were gonna roll, I was so angry at the designers, lol.
Then I educated myself and understood the limits of the boat. We know avoid these conditions, maybe tacking a bit and drive from down below if unavoidable.
But yes, seeing furniture slide across the floor or cabinets opening with plates smashing is NOT fun. You get smarter and wiser.

 

[Mako]

I remember when we were running down hill in 25-30 footers, in a 50 ton cruiser, watching my cousin sleeping on the sofa in the saloon, sliding 12 feet from one side to the other. It was crazy and comical actually.

 

[Slo-Mocean]

About 20 years ago 6 of us took my buddies recently inherited from his dad 43 Gulfstar flybridge trawler down to the Tortugas from Fort Myers.

The weather kicked up a bit about halfway into the trip and we we're running down with solid sixes on the quarter , you want to talk about scary. That thing would roll rail to rail a few times with just 2 of us on the bridge .

Buddy kept it a few years more but after that trip he put 1500lbs of concrete down in the hollow area left in the keel that helped a bunch but it still rolled easily.

 

[Nepidae]

We have a 43 Albin sundeck trawler.

I have 6- L16 (~130#ea) in the bilge, right on the keel. We carry 500gal of fuel (~8#/gal) outboard of the engines and 300gal of water (~8#/gal) under the master berth in the stern.

We do all of our driving from the bridge (yes we have a lower helm) and I can sympathize with the roll. Have had a couple of wanker wakers roll us a bit but she always seems to come back.

As was said, you avoid the weather and worst-case, tack on the waves. A little longer run but will smooth out the trip.

It is the design of the semi-displacement hull. While we have a keel, a protrusion below the rounded hull, it isn't as much as some and depending on the sea-state most any boat will roll. While in the Navy on an aircraft carrier, about as big as they came back then, there were a couple of times that boat would roll, both in the Med and the Atlantic.

IF you like the Nordic Tug and it meets all of your requirements, needs and desires then you will learn when to move and how to move. It is part of the learning curve you will have with any boat.

IF the deal fell through, don't worry, the right boat will find you, just keep looking.

 

[eheffa]

We recently looked at a Nordic 37 Tug flybridge and went through the offer process which has fallen through unfortunately. One of the things we noticed while looking at the boat was that it seemed to roll side to side fairly easily. After having done a lot of research on Nordics and finding them to be of high quality, we were never able to determine if the flybridge model roll is a common issue, and now that we are continuing our search I am interested in what this forum community has to say about the stability.

Hoping that some flybridge model owners can shed light on it.

Thank you!!

My wife & I have a 2006 non-flybridge Nordic Tug 37. We are out all year long in a real mix of weather & sea states. We live in Victoria & travel up & down the West Coast of BC, Washington & Alaska

There are occasions on lovely calm summer weather when I think it would be great to be up top in a flybridge enjoying the sun & breezes; but there are many more times when we are in larger ocean swells or when the wind is blowing hard & I am very grateful for the lower center of gravity & lesser windage of our pilothouse model.

Apart from the occasional beam sea roll easily mitigated by a 10 degree course change, we feel that the boat is quite stable & not subject to excessive rolling.

We have noted much better stability of the boat with bringing the dinghy (a ~ 10 ft Achilles RIB with outboard) down from the boat deck to an aft mounted davit. I suspect that a flybridge, sitting even higher with potentially even more weight aloft, would contribute to a significantly increased height to the center of gravity and an increased tendency to roll.

Everything is a compromise, but in snotty sea conditions, I am grateful to not have the flybridge.

 

[Captain BW]

Thanks for all of the input. We are coming from a 42' Island Packet sailboat, which was very tender side to side unless you put up some sail. We cruised 7 years and had many rough passages so I am very familiar with the physics involved. We have purchased 5 boats in our lifetime so far and it is always a daunting task picking the next boat and I appreciate all of your help!

 

[eheffa]

Thanks for all of the input. We are coming from a 42' Island Packet sailboat, which was very tender side to side unless you put up some sail. We cruised 7 years and had many rough passages so I am very familiar with the physics involved. We have purchased 5 boats in our lifetime so far and it is always a daunting task picking the next boat and I appreciate all of your help!

I was thinking of your comments of a 'tender vessel' yesterday as I was removing and reinstalling some solar panels on the pilothouse roof. As I (a not small person) was stepping on and off the boat multiple times through the day, it was noteworthy that there was very little movement at all. It's always impressed me that when at anchor, my wife and I can move about the boat with virtually no resultant movement or roll to the boat.

Apart from a 90 degree beam sea, I would not consider the non-flybridge NT 37 to be 'tender' in any way.

 

[Captain BW]

I was thinking of your comments of a 'tender vessel' yesterday as I was removing and reinstalling some solar panels on the pilothouse roof. As I (a not small person) was stepping on and off the boat multiple times through the day, it was noteworthy that there was very little movement at all. It's always impressed me that when at anchor, my wife and I can move about the boat with virtually no resultant movement or roll to the boat.

Apart from a 90 degree beam sea, I would not consider the non-flybridge NT 37 to be 'tender' in any way.

Good to hear. Your reply made me think I should probably clarify my "tender" comment on the Island Packet as I was referring to side to side roll in beam seas, not just a general tenderness side to side.

 

[Mambo42]

Get a stabilzed DeFever of any length and roll will be much, much less. An unstabilized DeFever will behave like that Nordic. Some boats roll more than others.

I can attest to that. Our Defever 49 did roll quite a lot (both at sea and in the marina or at anchor), very uncomfortable, so we decided to get stabilizers and now she is lying steady in the water, also on anchor.

 

[rwidman]

If your not used to a bridge boat , that may be the reason. More Hight = more roll. The higher you are the more you feel it.

This is the correct answer. If you are in beam seas, you might want to use the lower helm. In normal conditions, the flybridge is fine and a great place to be to see the scenery or see to dock.

 

[USMM retired]

We recently looked at a Nordic 37 Tug flybridge and went through the offer process which has fallen through unfortunately. One of the things we noticed while looking at the boat was that it seemed to roll side to side fairly easily. After having done a lot of research on Nordics and finding them to be of high quality, we were never able to determine if the flybridge model roll is a common issue, and now that we are continuing our search I am interested in what this forum community has to say about the stability.

Hoping that some flybridge model owners can shed light on it.

Thank you!!

Thee are very good comments listed below, all valid. I worked as a Merchant Mariner for 40 years and can tell you that a 960' ship will roll with a beam sea, and the sea doesn't have to be enormous to create roll.
I have a 2006 Nordic 37 with a flybridge, a crane and 10.5' center console on the boat deck or better described...above the salon. My experience is I don't feel it rolls to a great degree but on a beam sea it does roll, just like any vessel will, adjustments in speed and course corrects that greatly and I agree with other who have made that comment.
Myself, I love the flybridge, wouldn't change that for all the tea in china, when it gets cold or rough we go into the pilothouse...no big deal. Like I said though, I have gone to sea for many decades and quite seasoned to sea conditions, so what I call smooth may not be someone else's experience on the same water. I will stand by my comment that a Nordic is a very stable boat...nothing better in a head sea or there about.
I have considered pulling the dinghy but that has its disadvantages too ( flooding, overturning, line lets go and you loose the dinghy) nothing is perfect...

 

[C lectric]

I doubt, KNOW, any boat is immune to rolling in a beam sea. The question is how much.
My wife and I have a 32' adaptation of a 37 foot fishing boat that was known for travelling in rough water by the fishermen. I soon learned they, fishermen, have a far higher tolerance for pitching and rolling than I do.

I NEVER run my boat from the bridge any longer , rather the lower helm only. I would not even consider a boat with only a bridge station.
Even a good sea from behind requires wheel and throttle uses.

I learned to slow down and use the throttle to help straighten the boat out when the wheel was hard over and the waves were still threatening to turn us beam to the waves. That throttle use was a shot of much higher throttle and quick but if you use it to straighten the boat then also get off the throttle as the boat straightens or you will cause the hull to go the other way.

So look at the Nordics and if the seas are to rough then you either misjudged them and should not be on the bridge or you need some practice at better rough water boat handling as we all do. But do not write of the lower helm to operate the boat. .

And do not assume the bridge is the preferred place to operate from in rough conditions.

JMO.

 

[Mako]

"And do not assume the bridge is the preferred place to operate from in rough conditions."

I would say that's a given.

I wouldn't let my crew out on deck without a vest and a spotter in rough conditions. However, the definition of "rough conditions" is important and would depend on sea state, the size and motion of your vessel, the height of handrails, etc.

 

[Hippocampus]

Until the 28th of this month own a NT42. My other choice was an AT. The AT is very slightly wider so the NT is slightly more efficient. Still the hull designs are quite similar so both roll to a beam sea. It was hard to get real numbers like a AVS on either but best I could determine no significant difference.

It’s important to define what you actually mean when you say stability. Multi hulls are very rarely tender but rarely if ever have a AVS of over 90 degrees. Full displacement hulls are not infrequently tender but commonly have a AVS well over 90. Even 130 or higher isn’t infrequent. They are more stable than multihulls but commonly more tender.

When going to small fast boats you need to think about dynamic stability v static stability. Been on many planing hulls that really rock when still or moving slowly (think regulators, contenders, intrepids etc.) being deep Vs but are rock solid at speed.

Lastly the feeling changes dramatically depending upon point of sail. Some boats are very squirrelly running downwind and sea but just fine on other points of sail.

NTs have an excellent rep for handling seastate and I found that to be true. We very rarely turned on our SeaKeeper. The NTwas a very comfortable boat underway. We did rides on other SD hulls and it was the best.

But also investigated a Nordhavn 43. Compared SeaKeeper off/ fins off. Both days short period chop 2-3’ with a very occasional something bigger. Both were about the same (the NT better when we were above hull speed-not possible in the N) at similar speeds. Maybe the N was worse. The N was stiffer in the occasional bigger stuff.

All boats are compromises. For the best AVS go full displacement. For a happy medium to do coastal go SD. For best speed and dynamic stability go deep V with a transom angle over 20.

As said all boats roll. All boats have a harmonic frequency where they will roll more. All boats have ways to decrease roll:
Go faster and get some more dynamic stability.
Gyro
Fins
Fish
Interceptors
SeaKeeper “ride” trim tabs

Navy and NASA studies have been consistent. Some people are more sensitive to low frequency. Some high. But movement in several axises is the least tolerable. Think corkscrewing or porpoising plus rolling. Stability doesn’t define comfort. A test ride maybe a better measure.

 

[Hippocampus]

BTW we never ran the boat from up top when it was even mildly bumpy. No reason between radar, AIS, a camera and being able to look out of the windows on the back of the pilot house saw no reason to be up there.