Options for day OUPV DAY SAIL CHARTERS Insurance?

[Capt. Rodbone]

I’m finally going to act on my dream of running daysailing trips part time in retirement on my schooner. I have 40+ year’s experience sailing, but this will be my first use of my USCG Master 50 Ton w/sail endorsement in a boat in my own operation. I do have on my resume having delivered a 74 ft gaff rigged schooner from Alabama to Bar Harbor Maine in 2022. I also stayed up there and crewed and was First Mate on trips the rest of that season. This will however be my first operation like this in my own LLC and on my own vessel.
Could some of you reccommend a broker or agency I should contact to start getting this in place? Also any “words of wisdom” you folks that do or have done this type business want to share will be very much appreciated.

Best regards,
Rod Holland

 

[DavidM]

Any broker of marine insurance can provide a policy to protect you. Won’t be cheap though for a single boat.

TF member Pau Hana should be able to help.

David

 

[Capt. Rodbone]

Thank you David. I’m hoping it will not be ridiculous but am prepared for it to be so. I’m not doing it for a living, just have a boat I love very much and think I’ll enjoy sharing her with folks. We will see. I’m not going to spend a ton on insurance just to do it. ‘Not cheap” is a relative term. My schooner is paid for so I’m not required to have insurance, bit I do. She’s 40ft, 1978 glass hill 30 HP Yanmar, valued at $80k on policy, and couldn’t be more situated in the middle of the hurricane belt. That insurance renewed last month at $1,200/yr. I’m pulling a number out of the air here but does your “not cheap” exceed $2,000/yr for a suitable commercial OUPV policy?

 

[mvweebles]

$2k/year isn't even close to the low end. I think I paid over $1k for insurance for 6 weekends of close quarter training.......and that was almost 25 years ago.

A friend with a $1m motor yacht he'd like to luxury-charter has all but given up on insurance. He was seeing quotes in the $20k range in addition to the $5k for his current hull insurance. If you find something reasonable, please let me know and I'll pass the referral along.

One aside - is this a US built boat? I don't know if Jones Act restrictions apply to OUPV, but it might be applicable

Good luck with your venture.

Peter

 

[Blissboat]

Thank you David. I’m hoping it will not be ridiculous but am prepared for it to be so. I’m not doing it for a living, just have a boat I love very much and think I’ll enjoy sharing her with folks . . . couldn’t be more situated in the middle of the hurricane belt.

That is an interesting if cryptic reference to where you or at least your boat are. Other than "Location: U.S." as your avatar notes, would you share anything about where you intend to operate?

 

[SteveK]

You can take non paying guests on a tour under regular insurance. Have a tip jar available.

For profit ventures, you know there is income tax, insurance etc.

 

[DavidM]

About 20 years ago I worked as a yacht broker in Annapolis. I looked into commercial liability insurance and got a preliminary quote of $5,000 per year. Today it would be at least double that to keep up with inflation and maybe lots more to deal with our increasingly litigious society.

I decided to forego insurance and operate through an LLC. Some protection maybe, but not perfect.

For part time day sailing trips, that might be your best option for liability protection.. But you would still have no hull insurance.

David

 

[mvweebles]

About 20 years ago I worked as a yacht broker in Annapolis. I looked into commercial liability insurance and got a preliminary quote of $5,000 per year. Today it would be at least double that to keep up with inflation and maybe lots more to deal with our litigious society.

I decided to forego insurance and operate through an LLC. Some protection maybe, but not perfect.

For part time day sailing trips, that might be your best option for liability protection.. But you would still have no hull insurance.

David

Decent article on LLC and shielding liability. One of the paths to "piercing the corporate veil" includes shirking customary corporate responsibilities. I have to wonder if chosing to go uninsured would be interpreted as irresponsible, especially if it could be demonstrates the LLC was formed after getting insurance quotes.

When Can a Member of an LLC Be Personally Liable for Judgments Against the LLC? - Munizzi Law Firm

Consulting with reliable legal counsel can give you a clearer picture of this complex matter of law.

www.munizzilaw.com

I guess if you don't have much net worth, might be tempting since a plantiffs' attorney would likely be on contingency so pot of gold would be a key consideration whether he/she takes the case.

Peter

 

[Capt. Rodbone]

About 20 years ago I worked as a yacht broker in Annapolis. I looked into commercial liability insurance and got a preliminary quote of $5,000 per year. Today it would be at least double that to keep up with inflation and maybe lots more to deal with our increasingly litigious society.

I decided to forego insurance and operate through an LLC. Some protection maybe, but not perfect.

For part time day sailing trips, that might be your best option for liability protection.. But you would still have no hull insurance.

David

Thanks. Boat is already in an LLC. Already have hull insurance I consider reasonable at $1,800yr given been in prim hurricane country.

 

[DavidM]

Thanks. Boat is already in an LLC. Already have hull insurance I consider reasonable at $1,800yr given been in prim hurricane country.

If you use your boat for commercial purposes, ie paid day sails, then if you damage your boat the insurance company will deny coverage.

Commercial use affects liability as well as hull damage coverage.

David

 

[Keysdisease]

You are going to do 6 pax Charters? More than 6 is a very different story. Down in the Florida Keys there are hundreds of "uninspected" boats doing "6 pack" charters, mostly fishing, some dive and sail. Knowing the numbers they can't be paying exorbitant insurance and continue operating. 6 Pack insurance should be "affordable"

 

[DavidM]

I suspect those OUPV guys in the keys don’t have enough net worth to risk a liability claim, so they go bare.

That was the case for my fellow yacht brokers in Annapolis.

David