Outlets in Engine Room?

[Okydowky]

The fear of gas engines are getting old as a topic. If you use caution and dudiligence I think you will be ok.
I do have a live plug in my engine room, and yes I spend a lot of time down there. I am currently on my boat doing winter projects in my large engine room. I am sitting between $2000 of fresh gas, do you really think if I smell even a hint of fuel I would use anything electric. It’s bloody common sense.
My boat is on the ocean but I live on a popular tourist lake that has a few thousand of those drunk wake board boats doing circles all day all night and running hot. I don’t hear of any blow ups. Very rare if you really look at the stats.
We cross a major pass to travel to our boat and I bet there is a dozen diesel transport or pickup fires every year on that highway! I don’t know of one gas...
I really don’t know where all the fear comes from if you have gas engines on a boat comes from.. Use your brain.
Propane is probably your worse enemy!!!

 

[Okydowky]

I don’t think there would be a code against a 120v plug in a gas engine room. There is no difference in me having enough battery power in there to well 1” steel if I arced them out..
Again use your common sense!
My generator does have a explosion prove power break away switch which is code.

 

[Okydowky]

Sorry spell check
Weld
Proof

 

[oak_box]

There were at least 3 items in the engine room that prompted me to the original post:
1) 4' tube type "shop lights" - LED type now! - So that I can see what I'm doing in the engine room.
2) Engine room heater (USCG approved).
3) Battery charger.

All of these <could> be hardwired in - but that makes them a pain if you want to move them around, or if they need to be replaced.

All of these have their own cords that have plugs on them. What's an acceptable way to hardwire them to a supply line from the breaker box? I know wire nuts are a "no-no". I don't like the idea of using butt connectors if I end up with 3 wires to join (one supply line, two lights). Can I get a couple of small terminal strips and put the connections inside a plastic box (or does the box have to be metal?)? For some reason, if something were to come loose, I'd be more comfortable with the box being plastic, than with a loose wire immediately shorting to ground (even if that would HOPEFULLY throw the breaker before doing anything else bad...)

 

[Steve DAntonio]

The quote from ABYC I posted in post #32 would appear to contradict his position.

As others have noted, if this were the standard you could never use a power tool, or connect a battery terminal in a gasoline engine room.

Because it, like a starter or alternator, could actuate when no one is present, and gasoline fumes are present, the GFCI would need to be ignition protected, or it would need to be located outside the engine room.

Outlets are found in gasoline engine rooms of ABYC compliant vessels.

Ed Sherman, a friend, colleague and ABYC staffer, wrote this column on outlets in gas engine rooms. https://www.boats.com/reviews/engine-room-electrical-outlets-gfci-protection/

 

[Benthic2]

I may take some heat for this, but I think this is the wrong place to ask this question. There are people here who do not think even operating a gas boat is safe, so obviously they will not think an engine room outlet is safe.

Is there any material difference between having an outlet in the ER, and running an extension cord from your salon into the ER when need it ?? I suppose if you wanted to be super cautious, you always turn the breaker off for the ER outlet, then when you need it you plug in your tool, then turn the breaker on. That will cause the electrical connection to happen outside the ER, and also make sure you are not right there if something did go wrong.

 

[oak_box]

The GFCI outlets I bought (whether I mount them in the galley or anywhere else) have screws on them that don't appear to back out all the way - and thus won't allow me to put ring terminals on them. They're really intended for a bare wire to be inserted in the hole, and use the screw terminal to tighten the wire in the hole. Assuming stranded wire, is this ok?

Also - what is an accepted way of hardwiring a device into a supply? Are terminal strips inside a plastic (or metal) box acceptable? I don't like the idea, but would crimped butt connectors inside a plastic (or metal) box be acceptable? (are plastic enclosures acceptable?)

 

[oak_box]

On the subject of extension cords - to me, it seems like a better idea to have the outlet in the engine room rather than have a cord running through a hatch where you now have to worry about chafe rubbing through the cord and causing a short.

 

[psneeld]

The GFCI outlets I bought (whether I mount them in the galley or anywhere else) have screws on them that don't appear to back out all the way - and thus won't allow me to put ring terminals on them. They're really intended for a bare wire to be inserted in the hole, and use the screw terminal to tighten the wire in the hole. Assuming stranded wire, is this ok?

Also - what is an accepted way of hardwiring a device into a supply? Are terminal strips inside a plastic (or metal) box acceptable? I don't like the idea, but would crimped butt connectors inside a plastic (or metal) box be acceptable? (are plastic enclosures acceptable?)

I believe captive spade are allowed by ABYC.


ABYC 11.14.5.4 Terminal connectors shall be the ring or captive spade types.

 

[FF]

Movable Items like DC spotlights can draw more power that a cigar lighter socket was designed for.

The simple solution is 240V plugs and sockets from the big box store.

The large self wiping area of the blades and sockets can handle 15a or 20a of DC (rating on the plug) with out getting warm.

They look like 120v , but one blade is at 90 deg , so they wont fit a 120v socket and are polarized .120v wont fit into them.

These are the std of off grid folks that have been DC tools and house goodies for decades.

 

[obthomas]

I may take some heat for this, but I think this is the wrong place to ask this question. There are people here who do not think even operating a gas boat is safe, so obviously they will not think an engine room outlet is safe.

Some things just have more risk than others. Gasoline boats blow up more often than diesel boats.

You are standing in your engine room up to you ass in spilled gasoline and are holding three matches, or I am standing in my engine room up to my ass in gasoline and only holding one match. Which is safer?

It is safer to not have electrical outlets in a gasoline engine room?

 

[ksanders]

The GFCI outlets I bought (whether I mount them in the galley or anywhere else) have screws on them that don't appear to back out all the way - and thus won't allow me to put ring terminals on them. They're really intended for a bare wire to be inserted in the hole, and use the screw terminal to tighten the wire in the hole. Assuming stranded wire, is this ok?

Also - what is an accepted way of hardwiring a device into a supply? Are terminal strips inside a plastic (or metal) box acceptable? I don't like the idea, but would crimped butt connectors inside a plastic (or metal) box be acceptable? (are plastic enclosures acceptable?)

Yes stranded wire is just fine.

Almost all industrial wiring is stranded, at least from my experience.

The only place I’ve seen solid wire is homes.

 

[tiltrider1]

Some things just have more risk than others. Gasoline boats blow up more often than diesel boats.

You are standing in your engine room up to you ass in spilled gasoline and are holding three matches, or I am standing in my engine room up to my ass in gasoline and only holding one match. Which is safer?

It is safer to not have electrical outlets in a gasoline engine room?

Totally absurd. With this logic I could flip it and say do you want to be 25 miles out to sea on a diesel boat with a 1’ hole or a gas boat with a 1” hole.

A properly maintained gas boat is never going to have gas fumes in the bilge. An improperly maintained boat is going to have all kinds of safety issues regardless of fuel type.

If we try to hold everything to to the highest standards we would be claiming anything less than a nordhavn is unsafe for a lake cruise.

 

[Steve DAntonio]

Movable Items like DC spotlights can draw more power that a cigar lighter socket was designed for.

The simple solution is 240V plugs and sockets from the big box store.

The large self wiping area of the blades and sockets can handle 15a or 20a of DC (rating on the plug) with out getting warm.

They look like 120v , but one blade is at 90 deg , so they wont fit a 120v socket and are polarized .120v wont fit into them.

These are the std of off grid folks that have been DC tools and house goodies for decades.

Just an FYI, while this may work, doing this is a violation of ABYC Standards, outlets must be specifically designed for the application and voltage.

You can get heavy duty DC outlets an plugs, heavier than cigarette lighters, which I agree are terrible.