Panama City FL shooting

[harbor950]

Tenuous connection to the forum, but it did happen on the water. Panama City Fl shooting (injuries) of a Florida Fish and Wildlife officer.

More information released about FWC officer shooting - Story | MYPANHANDLE

 

[psneeld]

I can sympathize with solo LEOs out on the water at night.

I tell them all that consider me a resource....having little LE training and local water knowledge....I might be the first one to get to them. Not entering a gunfight unarmed, but wounded and in the water at night would be bad. With other agencies often much further away....they may not be as big of help unless a long lasting standoff.

Hope it nevery happens around me....I am just not sure what I would do watching a solo LEO taking fire...especially if things are turning bad.

 

[Rogerh]

Wow! This is our neck of the woods and it goes to show you that no matter where you are you stand a chance to run into crazies. Glad the officer is OK. Must have been quite a trick dodging his own boat while in the water.

 

[psneeld]

Wow! This is our neck of the woods and it goes to show you that no matter where you are you stand a chance to run into crazies. Glad the officer is OK. Must have been quite a trick dodging his own boat while in the water.

Hopefully he had enough magazines to keep them from concentrating on driving at him too much.

I don't think I could do their job... I would insist on carrying as much ammo as an instead SEAL team....

 

[Rogerh]

I read another news account that said that he had to reload in the water while they tried to run him over twice. I wonder how many gun shot holes are in the patrol boat.
Quite the miracle that he survived and only had minor gunshot wounds.

 

[psneeld]

IF shot through the collarbone, I wonder if there are a y long term effects?

Always heard that is a bad injury...but medical science leaps and bounds past what I stay current in.

 

[Steve]

It doesn't say but I guess they had stolen the sailboat?

 

[CPseudonym]

IF shot through the collarbone, I wonder if there are a y long term effects?

Always heard that is a bad injury...but medical science leaps and bounds past what I stay current in.

Ended my cousins LE career however it was a large bore rifle shot at the very end of the collarbone that did a lot of rotator cuff and tendon damage.

 

[Blissboat]

Very glad the FWC officer is alive, and the perps in custody. Thankfully the CG was able to get out there and locate the wounded officer in the water. There must be more to this story than the article relates, but nothing in it alters my conviction that water-borne LEOs are spread way too thin. In other words, there aren't enough of them out on the water. That's especially true here in Florida, with 1,197 statute miles of coastline (actually 2,276 statute miles of "tidal" shoreline), plus rivers and lakes.

Most boaters are decent people, which may be why exceptions (like these two gentleman sailors) stand out so much. But more law enforcement officers on the water would also help reverse the steady rise in what I call 'boating while ignorant.'

 

[Off Duty]

Let me start off by saying Thank God the officer is safe, and it's (IMHO) a shame that these two miscreants are still stealing air.
Hopefully the system will work better than it apparently has in the past, as evidenced by the fact that we are even having to discuss this

And...

...McKeithen said Officer David Brady's training, his bulletproof vest and possibly a higher power saw him through a deadly gunfight on a stolen sailboat at about 4:00 p.m.

He's definitely a "lucky" man, I'll give him that.
He needs to make danged sure he has a lottery/powerball ticket from every state available today! There was definitely a "higher power" looking over him.

McKeithen did not hold back during the press conference, at one point calling the suspects dirtbag cowards. He also pointed out that law enforcement officers face this kind of danger every time they put on a badge and go to work.

Give 'em hell!!

Brown also said the 13-year-veteran officer had the training necessary to survive the situation.

Ok, while I despise Monday morning quarterbacking, this is my world, so I guess I'll be the one to say it...WTF??

Brady jumped from his boat into the water

Please don't take this the wrong way.
It's NOT intended as an attack on the officer, but instead a legitimate question and concern for their safety.

So my question is, Freaking why?

With all of the training I've done, whether as student or instructor, I've never been instructed nor have I instructed anyone, to remove themselves from their vessel.

Unlike land based officers where you may have the opportunity to remove yourself from the line of fire to a position of better cover and concealment, say a dumpster for example, the boat is the only form of cover, concealment and escape you have!

Unfortunately, panic will cause a person to do the damnedest things.

Brady responded and made contact with the two white males aboard the sailboat. He asked for their identification and one man entered the cabin of the vessel. When the man emerged from the cabin he was armed with a handgun and began firing at Brady.

This is an inherent problem with law enforcement vice USCG boardings. While the USCG has a "team" on each boarding, in LE we're almost always outnumbered. I've watched FWC on many occasions here in the Bay area.

They're generally a friendly lot, and it's usually a polite and laid back,"hey, how ya'll doin' today?'", approach with the officer alongside in his/her vessel. While certainly less antagonistic than the storm trooper approach, It leaves a lot to be desired in the tactics department.

The suspect continued to fire at Brady and then both suspects boarded Officer Brady's boat. The two attempted to run over Brady with the boat several times as he returned fire, striking one of the suspects in the hand.

I'm truly impressed with his ability to even hit the boat under those conditions, much less one of the occupants. I'm going to venture luck more than skill here. Regardless, a hit is a hit and I'll take that over a miss any day!

However, Brady was shot once in the collarbone and once in the side. Col. Curtis Brown of the FWC said the bullet passed right through Brady's collarbone. The shot to his side was stopped by the bulletproof vest.

That's a lucky shot, or should I say miss.
Sounds like it was through and through.
Had it broken the clavicle or the rotator, it could have rendered the arm unusable. Not good when you're trying to swim, dodge, shoot, reload and waive......

Brady was able to flag down a Coast Guard vessel that took him to Panama City Marina and then to a local hospital where he was treated and released Friday night.

When the case is closed (or sooner if possible) I'll try to get a copy to review for training purposes.

The fact that the CG patrol boat was in the area was either a miracle, or they heard the call as well. Maybe they too received a call from someone? However it happened, he owes them dinner and drinks!

"My understanding is that the vest stopped several bullets,"

Hopefully it's their policy. Regardless, I'm glad he was wearing it.

Hopefully during his recovery, a team will debrief him and modify their "training criteria."

In the end however, I'm elated that he's still with us and hope these clowns get much more than they deserve

BTW- I have relatives in Panama City, and that's one thing I love about the area. It's still got a lot of "Old Florida" left, and there's still more than one "good ole boy" sheriff up there that thinks criminals should be treated like criminals and not as mixed up youth. Oh, and the locals don't mind guns

OD

 

[Off Duty]

Very glad the FWC officer is alive, and the perps in custody. Thankfully the CG was able to get out there and locate the wounded officer in the water. There must be more to this story than the article relates, but nothing in it alters my conviction that water-borne LEOs are spread way too thin. In other words, there aren't enough of them out on the water. That's especially true here in Florida, with 1,197 statute miles of coastline (actually 2,276 statute miles of "tidal" shoreline), plus rivers and lakes.

Most boaters are decent people, which may be why exceptions (like these two gentleman sailors) stand out so much. But more law enforcement officers on the water would also help reverse the steady rise in what I call 'boating while ignorant.'

Amen!
Unfortunately, like most state agencies in Florida, they're underpaid as compared to most city/county agencies, and no one wants to foot the tax bill for their funding. Unlike those of us in the local arena, where you see or interact with them on a daily basis, the FWC is obscure to most not in the boating community.

 

[siestakey]

Off Duty Dr. Ben carson quote one of the best of the night

My mother being 8th generations Floridian with many family members in LE things like this hit so close to home for us

And to top it off my youngest child (10th genration) live in Panama City and her husband works in LE

 

[Off Duty]

Off Duty Dr. Ben carson quote one of the best of the night

My mother being 8th generations Floridian with many family members in LE things like this hit so close to home for us

And to top it off my youngest child (10th genration) live in Panama City and her husband works in LE

I know what you mean my friend, and God bless your son in law, and others before him, for their service.

I'm a native Floridian.
I have a cousin and her husband who have been in Panama City all their lives.

My dad as well as an uncle were in law enforcement here in Florida, my uncle serving with the old game and fish commission, the forerunner to FWC.

Have a cousin who is Sgt. With a Ga. Sheriff's office, and I just had an FWC officer move in down the street from me.

Over the years I have buried several friends and at least 2 people who I had a hand in training in the academy. I've watched others medically retire, be forced to medical out or end up on the psych squad over duty related matters. So all of these situations strike a chord with me as well.

My post was not intended to be critical or demeaning of the officer involved. I hope it wasn't taken that way. It was more directed to the agencies training for the inherent risks they take. Maybe more so than those of us who do/did serve in the cities and urban areas.

I still remember officer Parker who was killed many years ago investigating some poachers (IIRC). They're out there alone with no backup.

As someone who continues to train, I look at each incident critically. Unfortunately I find some of the training woefully inadequate. Add the political correctness and hamstringing by the politicos and the press, and you have a recipe for disaster. I'm tired of attending funerals

I'm with psneeld. If I ever have the honor to be nearby when one of them needs help, I'll be there without question or consideration.

I took an oath, and retired or not, I still stand by that oath, and with those who continue to serve. God willing, nobody dies on my watch!!.

I look forward to making your acquaintance in person one day. In the meantime, please tell your son in law to be careful out there.


OD

 

[Off Duty]

Off Duty Dr. Ben carson quote one of the best of the night

I agree brother!

 

[ulysses]

That may be the unit that operates out of P.C. Marina near the civic center. If so I have seen them go out often. I pray for a speedy recovery for the officer.

 

[siestakey]

Amen!
Unfortunately, like most state agencies in Florida, they're underpaid as compared to most city/county agencies, and no one wants to foot the tax bill for their funding. Unlike those of us in the local arena, where you see or interact with them on a daily basis, the FWC is obscure to most not in the boating community.

I know what you mean my friend, and God bless your son in law, and others before him, for their service.

I'm a native Floridian.
I have a cousin and her husband who have been in Panama City all their lives.

My dad as well as an uncle were in law enforcement here in Florida, my uncle serving with the old game and fish commission, the forerunner to FWC.

Have a cousin who is Sgt. With a Ga. Sheriff's office, and I just had an FWC officer move in down the street from me.

Over the years I have buried several friends and at least 2 people who I had a hand in training in the academy. I've watched others medically retire, be forced to medical out or end up on the psych squad over duty related matters. So all of these situations strike a chord with me as well.

My post was not intended to be critical or demeaning of the officer involved. I hope it wasn't taken that way. It was more directed to the agencies training for the inherent risks they take. Maybe more so than those of us who do/did serve in the cities and urban areas.

I still remember officer Parker who was killed many years ago investigating some poachers (IIRC). They're out there alone with no backup.

As someone who continues to train, I look at each incident critically. Unfortunately I find some of the training woefully inadequate. Add the political correctness and hamstringing by the politicos and the press, and you have a recipe for disaster. I'm tired of attending funerals

I'm with psneeld. If I ever have the honor to be nearby when one of them needs help, I'll be there without question or consideration.

I took an oath, and retired or not, I still stand by that oath, and with those who continue to serve. God willing, nobody dies on my watch!!.

I look forward to making your acquaintance in person one day. In the meantime, please tell your son in law to be careful out there.


OD

I agree and I certainly will tell my son in law

I remember the female wild life officer Peggy Park ( I grew up in Pinellas) I think she was killed near the old boot ranch

 

[Off Duty]

"I remember the female wild life officer Peggy Park ( I grew up in Pinellas) I think she was killed near the old boot ranch"

That's her (sorry, didn't catch the auto correct to "Parker" on my phone :-( ).
Very small world.

Take care.

 

[Off Duty]

Any updates on the officer?

 

[Rogerh]

He was released from the hospital and it was reported he was doing well.

 

[Off Duty]

He was released from the hospital and it was reported he was doing well.

Awesome!

If there's anything we can do for him or his family, please let me know.
I have family in Panama City that would be more than willing to lend a hand.

OD

 

[Rogerh]

If I hear anything I will let you know. It was on the news again last night up here and they said he was doing OK.

 

[Off Duty]

If I hear anything I will let you know. It was on the news again last night up here and they said he was doing OK.

Thanks again.
Sad thing is, we haven't heard a peep about it down here.
Haven't had a opportunity to make the acquaintance of my new FWC neighbor yet. Maybe I'll do that this week. Let him know his work is appreciated.

OD

 

[siestakey]

He was released from the hospital and it was reported he was doing well.

Wonderful!!

 

[timjet]

Thank God the officer is OK. Just me rambling but maybe the officer jumped in the water to avoid turning his back to the shooter which may have been necessary if he reboaded his own boat.

I would like to know more about the homeowner who confronted the perp's with his own gun. A month or so ago in the Tampa Bay area 2 guys did a occupied home invasion and killed the 4 person family in the home. The home owner was totally defenseless.

 

[Off Duty]

Thank God the officer is OK. Just me rambling but maybe the officer jumped in the water to avoid turning his back to the shooter which may have been necessary if he reboaded his own boat....

Anything is possible. There are a lot of details to be filled in.

The act of boarding in an LE capacity, is probably the riskiest part of an LE contact underway. Between coming along side, while trying not to damage the persons vessel for fear of civil litigation, tying off, and physically hoisting yourself onto the other boat, ties up your hands and your attention, losing focus on the people on board. .

Until recently (the last few years anyway), I've only seen 1 officer per FWC boat on the water. We worked alongside them as backup on many occasions in the CG. They usually came alongside and asked for your information from there. Hardly ever saw one go aboard until they were comfortable with the situation or had backup. Since the article didn't specify, I assumed (I know better!) that he was still aboard his FWC vessel asking for ID. It'll be interesting to hear more facts.

It was a bit better as a Coastie.
As a reserve crew, mist of us were real world, full time cops, paramedics and firefighters, and we always had an armed crew covering the first guy/gal on deck!

Knowing that the officer is going to recover, this case makes an excellent training scenario for future waterborne LE officers, may provide for policy change if necessary, and certainly paves the way for additional funding for more FWC officers or bolstering the FWC reserve program.

...I would like to know more about the homeowner who confronted the perp's with his own gun. A month or so ago in the Tampa Bay area 2 guys did a occupied home invasion and killed the 4 person family in the home. The home owner was totally defenseless.

Me too. They didn't say much about it in the initial release.

 

[GFC]

I'm glad the FWC officer is doing OK. It's always a scary situation when boarding a boat when you're alone. Same as doing a traffic stop when you're alone. No matter how many of the variables you try to control to make sure you are safe, you can't control all of them.


My thought when I read about the officer jumping in the water is that the bad guys might have been between him and his boat and the only line of safe retreat was overboard.


OD, please keep us posted as details of how this played out become available.

 

[psneeld]

I have NEVER seen a solo officer board a vessel (thankfully).....tantamount to suicide in the wrong situation and it would be a terrible policy.

Still not sure this one did either.

 

[Off Duty]

I'm glad the FWC officer is doing OK. It's always a scary situation when boarding a boat when you're alone. Same as doing a traffic stop when you're alone. No matter how many of the variables you try to control to make sure you are safe, you can't control all of them.

My thought when I read about the officer jumping in the water is that the bad guys might have been between him and his boat and the only line of safe retreat was overboard.

OD, please keep us posted as details of how this played out become available.

I'll do my best Mike.

You hit it on the head in your first paragraph.
Having conducted more traffic stops than I can count, both in a car and on a motorcycle, there really are too many variables to control everything.
You mitigate what you can, and do the best with whatever you can't when it presents. On a boat you have the added issue of slower backup forces, and a "ground" that moves under your feet!

If he were on board, in this situation a lot would depend on the design and construction of the vessel. Fiberglass, Glass over wood, steel, etc., and whether there's anything to use for cover or concealment such as bulkheads or a cabin top.

As well, the caliber of incoming rounds vs. distance between the shooter and the officer or any available cover/concealment become a serious factor. Unfortunately when the SHTF is not the time to try and sort it all out.

Training and instincts have to take over, and pray you make the right decisions. IMHO, there is never "enough" scenario based force on force training. When he recovers, if he's able to handle it, I'd love to have him teaching the class! Who better than one whose BTDT and survived

For the reasons previously mentioned, I'm still not sure he was off of his vessel. If he felt comfortable, and the situation was "controlled", at least momentarily in his mind, then he may have boarded. But again, I'm just guessing like everyone else at this point.

I have NEVER seen a solo officer board a vessel (thankfully).....tantamount to suicide in the wrong situation and it would be a terrible policy. Still not sure this one did either.

I'm not sure I understood that last sentence, but I definitely won't disagree with you regarding policy or safety my friend. I am actually surprised that we haven't had more of this sort of thing happen.

That's the difference between USCG boarding teams and local/state Marine Law Enforcement Units. You can take an SS, YN, BM, ET, etc., give them the training and qual. codes, and assign them collateral duties as a boarding team member. You can't do that with LEO's.

At the time, I was with one of the largest Sheriff's Offices in the State, and about 5th largest in the country if memory serves me correctly.
I remember our marine unit having one (1) officer on board...period! The only time they had a backup officer, was if there was a reserve/auxiliary officer with them, or when one of us that were relatively new to the job, off duty, and "ate up with it" would tag along.

As for FWC, I'm not at all sure that is their "policy."
I just know what I've seen and experienced first hand.
Unfortunately, when we're talking about strained budgets and limited manpower, that's what sometimes happens. With the larger agencies not so much.

I have a long time friend who works with one of the fairly large Marine Units in South East Florida. While he "can" take the vessel out and patrol solo, the supervisor has "highly recommended" that there always be two (2) officers on board. So apparently it's not their "policy" either, just a recommendation

Whatever the case, the policies HAVE to change! Every boat with a badge attached, needs to have at least two (2) officers on board when U/W.

I will admit that I've started noticing a trend in local law enforcement toward having at least two (2) sometimes three (3) officers on board depending on the size of the vessel and the detail.
Any more than that it gets pretty crowded and people tend to get in each other's way.

OD

 

[dannc]

I would be shocked if the officer boarded the sail boat.

One officer trying to handle his boat, while trying to stand off the other boat, and watching the people on the other boat is likely what allowed the officer to be ambushed. Too much for one person to do at one time.

It would not surprise me if the sail boat gave the suspects a height advantage. Jumping into the water may have been the quickest way out of the line of fire and getting some cover and/or concealment. Or the W/O fell into the water when he moved to get find some cover/concealment.

The report will be interesting.

Later,
Dan

 

[psneeld]

I have NEVER seen a solo officer board a vessel (thankfully).....tantamount to suicide in the wrong situation and it would be a terrible policy.

Still not sure this one did either.

Last sentence was meant to say I didn't think he boarded the sailboat.

I agree that if sitting in his boat tied up alongside...and a gunman appears on deck firing down into the typical F&G boat....hopping over the far gunnel may have been what popped into his mind first.