Pascoe Books?

[RickB]

Megayachts, and big commercial ships do not count, any more than a 747 mechanic is qualified to fix a Cessna.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
My, my...Mr. Rick B. never professed to be an expert on anything that I can recall. He is merely pointing out the error of a number of Pascoes' "truisms", backed with FACTS. This alone calls ALL of Pascoe's statements into question in my mind. I haven't been on Pascoes site for a number of years but from what I remember, he is somewhat of an opinionated prig.
I recently had an insurance survey done by an "accredited" surveyor. Well, nice fellow but I would be VERY hesitant to leave the dock in a rowboat he OK'd. I paid the man and got my insurance renewed. Now, again from what I remember, if I had Pascoe do the survey (he doesn't like my brand) I'd still be on the hard pouring money into a perfectly good vessel to meet HIS arbitrary standards. Probably based on AYBC suggestions.-NOT standards!
I hold a certain "expert" who writes for Passagemaker Magazine in the same regard as Pascoe. Both too full of themselves to be of any value or notice to the average toy boat owner.
Difference between a collision and an explosion?
A collision occurs and there you are.
An explosion occurs and where are you?

 

[sea hag]

Southern truism re Pascoe: Often wrong but never in doubt !

 

[sunchaser]

Has anyone seen Pascoe on a Forum giving and taking point counter point on issues? If so, please let me know so I can log on.

I will be the first to admit I found Pascoe's early articles interesting. But as with most things scholarly, those who successfully get involved with serious issues matriculate past grade school.

 

[boatpoker]

 

[Tom.B]

I think that, no matter what the subject, you can find information, (in print) that is no different that what you find in internet forums today. There are just as many books full of bullshit (or that turned out to be that way), I don't see how the interweb has changed things that much. Goto the library... You'll see. You still have to siphon through it.

 

[Art]

Pasco's incorrect some times. Everyone's incorrect some times. He has published a lot of items helpful to new boaters. He also has plenty on the net for those becoming interested in boating... to get their feet wet so to say! Many of his items are fairly interesting; some on point, some not. He’s quite prolific about his experiences with pleasure boats... and, what he writes ain’t all bad! Let’s leave this rest!

 

[CPseudonym]

Anybody familiar with "Mid-Size Power Boats"? Pricey as hell, but worth t?

I'm looking for resources that I can use to build a pre-survey checklist and generally get better educated. When we start looking seriously for our first trawler next year, I'd rather use my time to weed out DOA boats before hiring a pro.

I have this link by a surveyor, which I think will be useful: Marine Survey 101, how to do your own marine survey

Just looking for additional resources. Thanks.

Sooo, as shocking as it sounds you might have noticed opinions are varied about Pascoe's collective works. As a newbie to larger power boats I found his website useful in familiarizing myself with various choices and generally good information. It really taught me what questions to ask while setting me hip to how complicated or simple these boats can be. Like all advice, especially mine, run it through the BS filter between your ears and do your best. No one source(website, book, etc...) has all the answers you seek and even if it did the details will always be debatable.

Frankly I haven't given Pascoe much thought beyond my initial preliminary research so on that basis alone purchasing his work in book format would be of no use for me. Some folks learn and absorb information differently though so what works for one is not always right for someone else.

Good luck in your search.

 

[RickB]

The gentleman from Seward illuminated something I had never really thought much about before reading a post in which he intimated that people who derive an income from maintaining big things are not qualified to comment on smaller things.

Most people are probably aware that big ships carry lifeboats but maybe some of those folks never consider that the engineers on those ships operate and maintain the engines that power those lifeboats. There is quite a range of propulsion engines installed on lifeboats and the "fast rescue boats" that are now required to be carried, and it is a fair bet that most readers will recognize the engines listed in the CG document "USCG ACCEPTED LIFEBOAT/RESCUE BOAT. ENGINES"linked below:

http://tinyurl.com/ob229go


Not to mention that big ships (and megayachts) are universally fitted with emergency diesel generators powered by engines supplied by Cummins, Cat, Perkins, DD, MTU, and many other manufacturers in sizes from 4 cylinders upward that would be instantly be recognized by most recreational boaters.

The ever growing size of yachts at the upper end of the scale means that many, if not most, now carry or tow a tender that is the same size and are powered by the same engines as most of the boats represented on this forum. Those yachts, super or mega or just ordinary, carry a host of single cylinder diesel engines, 2-stoke gas engines and 4 stroke gas engines. Something has to power the portable pumps, jetskis, outboard powered crew tenders and diesel powered RIBS, limousine tenders, and all the other things that go along with upscale yachting these days.

All the machinery, engines, hulls, icemakers, refrigerators, watermakers, generators, electrical systems and all the other stuff found on a yacht and its tenders or toys are maintained the same way yours is. For the most part, there are few components that are not the same make and model found on many of the boats seen in the avatars on this site.

And in case anyone was wondering, diesel fuel doesn't know if it is being burned in a Lehman 120 or a 4000 hp MTU ... it's all the same to a hydrocarbon molecule.

Some of us even own, operate, and maintain the same kind of boats the rest of the members here own and operate. I am certain that there are more than a few "747 mechanics" who build their own aircraft and are eminently qualified and certificated to provide superb service to any Cessna product.

 

[angus99]

Like all advice . . . run it through the BS filter between your ears and do your best. No one source(website, book, etc...) has all the answers you seek and even if it did the details will always be debatable.

I appreciate everybody's perspectives; CP, this is the kind of balanced advice I needed. I'll pass on Pascoe's book for now, and will weigh what I see on his website against other sources. Now, it's off to Trawlerfest.

 

[Art]

I appreciate everybody's perspectives; CP, this is the kind of balanced advice I needed. I'll pass on Pascoe's book for now, and will weigh what I see on his website against other sources. Now, it's off to Trawlerfest.

Good Choice!

 

[ksanders]

The gentleman from Seward illuminated something I had never really thought much about before reading a post in which he intimated that people who derive an income from maintaining big things are not qualified to comment on smaller things.

Most people are probably aware that big ships carry lifeboats but maybe some of those folks never consider that the engineers on those ships operate and maintain the engines that power those lifeboats. There is quite a range of propulsion engines installed on lifeboats and the "fast rescue boats" that are now required to be carried, and it is a fair bet that most readers will recognize the engines listed in the CG document "USCG ACCEPTED LIFEBOAT/RESCUE BOAT. ENGINES"linked below:

http://tinyurl.com/ob229go


Not to mention that big ships (and megayachts) are universally fitted with emergency diesel generators powered by engines supplied by Cummins, Cat, Perkins, DD, MTU, and many other manufacturers in sizes from 4 cylinders upward that would be instantly be recognized by most recreational boaters.

The ever growing size of yachts at the upper end of the scale means that many, if not most, now carry or tow a tender that is the same size and are powered by the same engines as most of the boats represented on this forum. Those yachts, super or mega or just ordinary, carry a host of single cylinder diesel engines, 2-stoke gas engines and 4 stroke gas engines. Something has to power the portable pumps, jetskis, outboard powered crew tenders and diesel powered RIBS, limousine tenders, and all the other things that go along with upscale yachting these days.

All the machinery, engines, hulls, icemakers, refrigerators, watermakers, generators, electrical systems and all the other stuff found on a yacht and its tenders or toys are maintained the same way yours is. For the most part, there are few components that are not the same make and model found on many of the boats seen in the avatars on this site.

And in case anyone was wondering, diesel fuel doesn't know if it is being burned in a Lehman 120 or a 4000 hp MTU ... it's all the same to a hydrocarbon molecule.

Some of us even own, operate, and maintain the same kind of boats the rest of the members here own and operate. I am certain that there are more than a few "747 mechanics" who build their own aircraft and are eminently qualified and certificated to provide superb service to any Cessna product.

Thank You Rick, Good post.

When I asked several posts ago for you to qualify yourself as being able to professionally say Pascoe was full of it (like you said he was), you could have easily posted a good post like the one you just did.

As you can tell, I am not a fan of people broad brush slamming other people, but in this case you have with your last post qualified yourself to do so. Thank you for enlightening me as to how your megayacht experience is applicable to our smaller boats.

 

[sunchaser]

For those who are newer TF members such as Kevin, we have been graced from time to time with a few boating pros. Most of these pros leave as they have nothing to prove to the laymen naysayers.

Certainly Rickb and Tad Roberts to name but a few pros who have hung around deserve grudging support. For some this is a forum detailing something stupid and posting about it. don't be surprised if you get called on it though by a pro.

 

[alormaria]

Greetings,
My, my...Mr. Rick B. never professed to be an expert on anything that I can recall. He is merely pointing out the error of a number of Pascoes' "truisms", backed with FACTS. This alone calls ALL of Pascoe's statements into question in my mind. I haven't been on Pascoes site for a number of years but from what I remember, he is somewhat of an opinionated prig.
I recently had an insurance survey done by an "accredited" surveyor. Well, nice fellow but I would be VERY hesitant to leave the dock in a rowboat he OK'd. I paid the man and got my insurance renewed. Now, again from what I remember, if I had Pascoe do the survey (he doesn't like my brand) I'd still be on the hard pouring money into a perfectly good vessel to meet HIS arbitrary standards. Probably based on AYBC suggestions.-NOT standards!
I hold a certain "expert" who writes for Passagemaker Magazine in the same regard as Pascoe. Both too full of themselves to be of any value or notice to the average toy boat owner.
Difference between a collision and an explosion?
A collision occurs and there you are.
An explosion occurs and where are you?

So true. I had a similar experience with my last survey. Surveyors apparently come in several flavors and you must choose to your taste.

 

[RickB]

I hold a certain "expert" who writes for Passagemaker Magazine in the same regard as Pascoe. Both too full of themselves to be of any value or notice to the average toy boat owner.

Another case of the followers being afraid to question their high priests or the "emperor's new clothes" syndrome. Another example of how the boating press often fails to serve its readers.

To Turbocharge Or Not To Turbocharge | PassageMaker

Read the first few paragraphs. It appears that either the "expert" won't or can't correct his boss, doesn't know any better himself, or even worse, told him that is how things work.

"High compression ratios generate high temperature, which explodes the fuel and air mixture after it is injected into the diesel’s cylinders via intake ports. In a naturally aspirated diesel, this fuel/air mixture is literally sucked into each intake port by the vacuum created by exiting exhaust gases. As the speed of the diesel engine increases, this vacuum pulls in even more air and diesel fuel ..."


That article is over a year old and no one has left a comment - or no comments have made it past the editor.

What other "facts" make it into that magazine to lead its readers down the rosy path of editorial ignorance. How much money do its readers waste because of such expert advice and information?

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. Rick B. Not the "expert" to whom I was referring but his writing is equally erroneous and humorous. "those early attempts for better performance engines were soon eclipsed, however, by the development of turbocharging," in reference to the hot rods of our youth (fourth paragraph in the article you referenced). Hmmmmm.....hot rods in 1905? Who knew?
Turbocharger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Patent date given in history).
"Experts" dealing in proof is best explained by a past Canadian Prime Minister.
(former) prime minister jean chretien explains... - YouTube
There's all the proof you need sir....

 

[Edelweiss]

What's missing is a peer review process to examine each of these claims and separate the hypothetical from fact. In the science community, this has been the process for many years. A good example is the the cold fusion process in the 1990’s. Not to say that sometime in the future cold fusion won’t happen. Just not with the process put forth by two very well noted researchers. Their research was flawed and didn’t stand the test of peer review.
Mr. Pascoe suffers the same fate, when he steps outside of his area of knowledge and speculates in writing on a public forum the cause of failure to an aircraft’s rudder by examining a photograph. The scientists at NTSB are far better qualified to make that determination and Mr. Pascoe discredits himself and his work by doing so.
IMHO
LB

 

[CaptTom]

What's missing is a peer review process to examine each of these claims and separate the hypothetical from fact.

Very good point. I read Mr. Pascoe's web site almost in its entirety the first time I saw his name mentioned. That was a few years ago now. Every time I've seen it mentioned since, as that first time, it sparked controversy. I'm not sure all his detracters qualify as "peers". But I do know that a lot of very knowledgeable people disagree with him.

My own assessment of his writing style was that he tended toward the arrogant know-it-all side of the spectrum. I learned a lot, but took it all with a grain of salt.

It takes no more skill to write a posting on the Internet than it does to write on a bathroom wall. All such writings (including this one) should be taken with that in mind.

 

[RickB]

Mr. Rick B. Not the "expert" to whom I was referring but his writing is equally erroneous and humorous.

I guess I didn't make it clear enough, BP is the "expert's" naked emperor. He owns the press that publishes the expert's ramblings, and used to be his editor.

BP never used to write or publish garbage like that, I guess the new owner of PM figures the "expert" will edit or fact check BP's stuff but judging by that particular article, there is a blind man leading a naked emperor. Editorial incest?

It's a real shame too because PM used to be a reliable source of information. All too often now it seems to be just a marketing resource for the "expert" to promote his offshoot businesses.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Steve D'A......

 

[Miami Vice]

I had the pleasure of meeting Pascoe, and spent a day with him while he surveyed my boat.
Somebody has to counter balance all the sugar coated boat review articles written in the magazines.
Even if his style is flamboyant, and he exaggerates a lot, and makes mistakes, he points out that there have been a lot of problems with boat builders over the years.
If anything he makes you think, and when buying a boat to go in "with your eyes wide open".
Miami Vice

 

[sunchaser]

I had the pleasure of meeting Pascoe -- his style is flamboyant, and he exaggerates a lot, and makes mistakes
If anything he makes you think Miami Vice

Pascoe makes me think too. But is he a good surveyor?

 

[FF]

Pascoe makes me think too. But is he a good surveyor?

Doesnt matter , what does matter is the reviews of many boats and styles of boats is realistic , and could steer a wannabeein the right direction .

Reading Pascoe is 1000 times more valuable than a puff mag like PM.

 

[sunchaser]

Doesnt matter , what does matter is the reviews of many boats

Miami Vice hired Pascoe to do a survey, not run a library. Judging from MV's observations Pascoe is a better librarian than a surveyor.

 

[boatpoker]

Judging from MV's observations Pascoe is a better librarian than a surveyor.

I don't read MV's comments that way

 

[ksanders]

Doesnt matter , what does matter is the reviews of many boats QUOTE]

Miami Vice hired Pascoe to do a survey, not run a library. Judging from MV's observations Pascoe is a better librarian than a surveyor.

How did you draw the conclusion you posted above from the quote posted below???

Is there information you are not sharing here?

I had the pleasure of meeting Pascoe, and spent a day with him while he surveyed my boat.
Somebody has to counter balance all the sugar coated boat review articles written in the magazines.
Even if his style is flamboyant, and he exaggerates a lot, and makes mistakes, he points out that there have been a lot of problems with boat builders over the years.
If anything he makes you think, and when buying a boat to go in "with your eyes wide open".
Miami Vice

 

[Art]

David Pascoe is a good primer for newbies entering the pleasure boating world / market. So what, if he is too much up on himself and makes some mistakes that "professionals" can call him on. No body's perfect... let he who is stand up!

Anyway... his web based articles are fairly informative and everything anyone says about boats needs to be taken with a grain (or three) of salt. Cause... there's more than one way to look at things!

 

[RickB]

... everything anyone says about boats needs to be taken with a grain (or three) of salt. Cause... there's more than one way to look at things!

That is a bit simplistic. There might be more than one way to correct a problem or a defect but that doesn't change the fact the defect or problem exists or does not.

I don't think anyone is calling Pascoe out on his opinions, I certainly am not. I am definitely calling him out on his absolute false statements of what he obviously believes to be fact. His willingness to publish and sell patently false information (and continue to do so after being corrected) is what I have a problem with.

I don't care how many books he has self published, if the percentage of bad information and outright falsehoods applies across the range of his works then his entire production is highly suspect.

As far as providing a place for the beginner to start his education ... reader beware ... if you can't recognize the difference between a cobblestone and pile of horse pucky then maybe it's better to take a different path.

 

[Miami Vice]

The RV industry has many similarities to the boating industry. The RV magazines all sugar coat their reviews of motor homes. Why wouldn't they? The manufacturers they are gloating about are their advertising customers. They don't want to bite the hand that feeds them.
Then one day J.D. Gallant with an organization called RV Consumer Group came along and pointed out all kinds of manufacturing defects in Motor Homes.
RV Consumer Group - How We Began Rating RVs
Because they don't take any advertising money the membership fee is $139 join and the books that review motor homes are expensive.
With the demise of PowerBoat Reports who is willing to step up to the plate to educate the boating consumer in an unbiased way about problems with boat manufacturers?
It's easy to criticize Pascoe, and find his faults, but what would be more constructive is for us to find, fund, and support a new publication like PowerBoat reports. The new publication doesn't even have to be in an "old fashioned" magazine format. If it's cheaper and easier to provide it via an email subscription that would be just fine.
If something like this already exists please let me know and I will order my subscription today!
Miami Vice

 

[FF]

Practical Sailor is still in business and still reviews anchors bottom paint VHF radios,,,,,,

A Consumer Reports of power boats would have no base as so few can afford a new purchase.