Pining for warmer weather...

[GANDK2PNW]

Don't listen to Keith. It is all lies! The PNW and BC only have two nice days in the summer and they are separated by weeks of cold drizzle. Winters are wet, dark, windy, and while not extremely cold, they are extremely unpleasant. Green mold and moss grow faster on the top sides than the grass and barnacles grow on the bottom.

This is the worst boating weather in North America unless you really are a sick bastard that likes cold water, cold wind, and dark skies most of the year and then simply cold water, cold wind, and long gloomy cloudy days the rest of the time.

Save yourselves and avoid boating up here.

In southern California we try a similar tactic to keep east coasters from moving here. You're not deterring us, lol.
We're moving to the Puget Sound and we'll be boating in BC waters, hopefully 4-6 months out of the year [emoji3]

 

[GFC]

"Luxury", I think that's a good way to describe the describe the difference a pilothouse offers . Pilothouses are luxurious; flybridges are more utilitarian.

Ted

Ted, obviously you have not yet been in the right kind of fly bridge....

Seating for 12, all the electronics, refrigerator, freezer, running water. What more could a serious boater ask for?

 

[dhays]

Ha!
I believe your intentions are not as transparent as you might hope!
Bruce

I can try

 

[O C Diver]

Seating for 12, all the electronics, refrigerator, freezer, running water. What more could a serious boater ask for?

You have a very nice fly bridge. However, to answer your question:

Teak and Holly sole floor
Heat
Air conditioning (dehumidification)
Completely dry and cozy in horizontal rain
Head close by
No staircase or ladder to climb
Far less pitching and rolling in seas
15' air draft (bridge clearance)
Exterior windows or isenglass that's easy to clean
No plastic widow material to deteriorate and replace
No window zippers to deal with
No canvas to maintain and replace
Real leather seating

Ted

 

[Bruce B]

I'm beginning to believe the Flybridge/no Flybridge thing comes down to a persons age...
Maybe???
Bruce

 

[Aft Deck Capt]

Shoveled the decks a few days ago. We've had low single digit nighttime temps this past week . Bring on the thaw!

 

[dhays]

I'm beginning to believe the Flybridge/no Flybridge thing comes down to a persons age...
Maybe???
Bruce

I think it is more based on weather. I have a flybridge but don't use it much.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
FB preference? Age (general flexibility/nimbleness)? Weather (sun/rain/temperature)? Water clarity (reef spotting)? Habit (I've always/never had one)? Many reasons.
When I was looking for our "small" boat I was specifically looking for a non FB model due to some areas that were limited to a specific air draft (5' bridges). Turns out we got a FB model which DID limit the cruising grounds BUT I find I pilot from the FB pretty well exclusively unless the weather is really bad. HAH! 23' boat with a FB. Whoda thunk? This last summer a waterman commented that he'd never seen such a small boat with a FB. Cute, he called it. So official name is now Cutie PY (PennYan). It's all good.

 

[gaston]

Greetings,
FB preference? Age (general flexibility/nimbleness)? Weather (sun/rain/temperature)? Water clarity (reef spotting)? Habit (I've always/never had one)? Many reasons.
When I was looking for our "small" boat I was specifically looking for a non FB model due to some areas that were limited to a specific air draft (5' bridges). Turns out we got a FB model which DID limit the cruising grounds BUT I find I pilot from the FB pretty well exclusively unless the weather is really bad. HAH! 23' boat with a FB. Whoda thunk? This last summer a waterman commented that he'd never seen such a small boat with a FB. Cute, he called it. So official name is now Cutie PY (PennYan). It's all good.

23'? do you qualify for a boat card ? mine is 30' I don't think I do but if I add all 3 that's 88' Now do I need 1 or 3 boat cards ??

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. g. Boat card? Probably a boat postage stamp or...

 

[O C Diver]

I'm beginning to believe the Flybridge/no Flybridge thing comes down to a persons age...
Maybe???
Bruce

No doubt. Same reason sailors give up cockpits for pilothouses.

I have nothing against a flybridge. Think there great on a really nice day, out in the ocean, on a fast boat, and with adequate canvas or hard top for sun protection. Traveling inland waters, at hull speed, going through buggy areas, on blistering hot or freezing cold days, or inclement weather, they're just not as comfortable as a pilothouse.

Ted

 

[Northern Spy]

What a weird turn for this thread. Down at the boat now. Lots of activity in the harbour. Fish are biting again. Everyone wearing touques. I just came back from snowshoeing in the mountains.



It's cold out.

 

[MurrayM]

What a weird turn for this thread. Down at the boat now. Lots of activity in the harbour. Fish are biting again. Everyone wearing touques. I just came back from snowshoeing in the mountains.

View attachment 60422

It's cold out.

So, is it true that cold & moist coastal air bites deeper than cold & dry interior air?

 

[BandB]

What a weird turn for this thread. Down at the boat now. Lots of activity in the harbour. Fish are biting again. Everyone wearing touques. I just came back from snowshoeing in the mountains.

View attachment 60422

It's cold out.

Wifey B: Why doesn't the doggy have a coat on? At least a nice winter sweater is needed. Maybe some nice boots but a lot of dogs don't like them.

 

[Northern Spy]

So, is it true that cold & moist coastal air bites deeper than cold & dry interior air?

Nope. Wore a t-shirt most of the day.

 

[Northern Spy]

Wifey B: Why doesn't the doggy have a coat on? At least a nice winter sweater is needed. Maybe some nice boots but a lot of dogs don't like them.

Because he is single-handedly trying to improve the image of the poodle breed. He spit out his cigar butt moments before this photo.

 

[GFC]

You have a very nice fly bridge. However, to answer your question:

Teak and Holly sole floor
Heat
Air conditioning (dehumidification)
Completely dry and cozy in horizontal rain
Head close by
No staircase or ladder to climb
Far less pitching and rolling in seas
15' air draft (bridge clearance)
Exterior windows or isenglass that's easy to clean
No plastic widow material to deteriorate and replace
No window zippers to deal with
No canvas to maintain and replace
Real leather seating

Ted

OK, you got me on some of those. No teak and/or holly anywhere on the boat. No A/C on the bridge. Or heat unless I plug in my aux heater. It is dry and cozy in a horizontal rain. We do have a ladder. Isenglass is fairly easy to clean and easy to store. Plastic windows do deteriorate but these are 22 years old--they get replaced this summer. Upper bimini is the same age and it's doing fine. Our area has no low bridges so bridge clearance isn't a problem.

I hope you know I was just pushing your leg a bit. I've chartered boats with pilothouses and had a good time on them. I'm 70. if I ever get old I'll probably trade for a pilothouse boat.

 

[O C Diver]

I hope you know I was just pushing your leg a bit. I've chartered boats with pilothouses and had a good time on them. I'm 70. if I ever get old I'll probably trade for a pilothouse boat.

Yes I knew you were having fun with me. I'm old at 58 as far as lots of days at sea running charters on crappy days. Still like open boats and flybridges for day trips when it's a picture perfect day to be out boating . When it comes to cruising in varied conditions, I want all the comforts of my pilothouse.

Ted

 

[BandB]

Yes I knew you were having fun with me. I'm old at 58 as far as lots of days at sea running charters on crappy days. Still like open boats and flybridges for day trips when it's a picture perfect day to be out boating . When it comes to cruising in varied conditions, I want all the comforts of my pilothouse.

Ted

It is not impossible to have both, the comfort of a pilothouse in a nice lower helm and the flybridge.

 

[O C Diver]

It is not impossible to have both, the comfort of a pilothouse in a nice lower helm and the flybridge.

I don't want "the comfort of a pilothouse in a nice lower helm", I want all the features of a pilothouse. It would be like me telling you, "You can have everything your fast boat offers in a boat that only goes 10 knots".

The Hans Christian version of my boat was offered with a flybridge of sorts. Adding a hard top over the flybridge totally screwed the air draft and aesthetics of the boat

Ted

 

[The Other Gary]

I am 17 miles east of Toronto and this has been a very mild winter. Our docks have heated water lines, 2 x 50 amp at each slip and cable. I have only used the ice eater nine days so far and the next 7 are all above freezing. I am on the top dock, closest to shore. No worries. The empty dock north of me is a summer only dockominium where I have a slip and will move there April 1st for summer

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. TOG. Frenchman's Bay?

 

[BandB]

I don't want "the comfort of a pilothouse in a nice lower helm", I want all the features of a pilothouse. It would be like me telling you, "You can have everything your fast boat offers in a boat that only goes 10 knots".

The Hans Christian version of my boat was offered with a flybridge of sorts. Adding a hard top over the flybridge totally screwed the air draft and aesthetics of the boat

Ted

Other than raised, which can be done but often isn't, what other features do you feel you can't get? The one I think of is separation from the other people and parts of the boat. There are boats that have pilothouses and flybridges. The pilothouses may or may not be raised.

Now, I'm a fan of flybridges but not those like you refer to where it's like the flybridge was an afterthought and just plopped on top of a non-bridge boat. It just doesn't work generally, being a lousy flybridge and messing up other thingss.

 

[BandB]

I am 17 miles east of Toronto and this has been a very mild winter. Our docks have heated water lines, 2 x 50 amp at each slip and cable. I have only used the ice eater nine days so far and the next 7 are all above freezing. I am on the top dock, closest to shore. No worries. The empty dock north of me is a summer only dockominium where I have a slip and will move there April 1st for summer

Great to see a facility set up like that for year round use. Years ago I visited an excellent facility in Cincinnati that was open and maintained similarly year round.

 

[The Other Gary]

Greetings,
Mr. TOG. Frenchman's Bay?

Yes, I designed and was prime contractor for the 2 newer docks at the top and also was part of the team that developed the waterfront Townhomes and boutique streetfront. 14 years ago this was a failing boatyard and a bankrupt fishfarm. I did the land assembly and sales of all the new homes as well. It is a great destination for a visit with safe docks and fine restaurants.

 

[The Other Gary]

Currently working on a design /build to replace the lower docks.

 

[O C Diver]

Other than raised, which can be done but often isn't, what other features do you feel you can't get? The one I think of is separation from the other people and parts of the boat. There are boats that have pilothouses and flybridges. The pilothouses may or may not be raised.

Now, I'm a fan of flybridges but not those like you refer to where it's like the flybridge was an afterthought and just plopped on top of a non-bridge boat. It just doesn't work generally, being a lousy flybridge and messing up other thingss.

As you mentioned:

Raised is one which often is combined with design to yield better panoramic vision from the helm. Most lower helms suffer here and have maybe 180 degrees of unobstructed vision.

Separation for night operation is huge unless you're going to darken that level of the boat. Also feel that separation from guests is extremely important in areas where boating is complex either by traffic or by waterway constraints. Have wondered how many accidents, groundings and other mishaps occur as the result of captains being distracted by guests on their boat. It's not that you always need to be separated from your guests, but there are times when you should.

In addition:

Most lower helms as opposed to pilothouses have no immediate forward or side deck access. Need to be able to look over the sides or bow in close proximity to the hull. Very common for me to stop the boat and reevaluate a situation by stepping out of the pilothouse during docking or other tight maneuvers. When single handling, having the helm easily reachable from the bow during locking and docking is very important.


A pilothouse is usually an uncompromised helm design as far as running the boat. Lower steering stations are almost always compromises. A lower steering station that has the helm off center of the vessel is a good example of compromising to optimize the cabin not the function of the helm. IMO, the lower helm is inserted into the cabin and a pilothouse is designed around a helm.

My boat has a very nice helm and a very nice galley / saloon. Neither detracts from the other.

Ted

 

[BandB]

As you mentioned:

Raised is one which often is combined with design to yield better panoramic vision from the helm. Most lower helms suffer here and have maybe 180 degrees of unobstructed vision.

Separation for night operation is huge unless you're going to darken that level of the boat. Also feel that separation from guests is extremely important in areas where boating is complex either by traffic or by waterway constraints. Have wondered how many accidents, groundings and other mishaps occur as the result of captains being distracted by guests on their boat. It's not that you always need to be separated from your guests, but there are times when you should.

In addition:

Most lower helms as opposed to pilothouses have no immediate forward or side deck access. Need to be able to look over the sides or bow in close proximity to the hull. Very common for me to stop the boat and reevaluate a situation by stepping out of the pilothouse during docking or other tight maneuvers. When single handling, having the helm easily reachable from the bow during locking and docking is very important.


A pilothouse is usually an uncompromised helm design as far as running the boat. Lower steering stations are almost always compromises. A lower steering station that has the helm off center of the vessel is a good example of compromising to optimize the cabin not the function of the helm. IMO, the lower helm is inserted into the cabin and a pilothouse is designed around a helm.

My boat has a very nice helm and a very nice galley / saloon. Neither detracts from the other.

Ted

Very interesting. I appreciate you expounding on the subject. We've looked at a lot of boats over time and seen some excellent and some horrible lower helms. Hatteras on their 60-100' motoryachts generally doesn't put lower helms now. But looking at the 60', even on their plans where they would add one it was deficient in every way you mention. The worst thing was the windshield angle. Very sloped windshield nice for the seating area, but horrible to use to operated a boat.

Separation for night issue is interesting because I've seen a couple of boats that I can't even remember with excellent blinds or screens you could close and easily block out the light. Yet that's two or three out of hundreds and the others don't provide anything like that.

Now, a lot of lower helms now do have ready and immediate access to the side deck. More and more people have demanded it. Off center is an interesting issue as I also prefer centered but it strikes me as strange that I do. I'd never want my car changed to a center driver's station.

 

[BruceK]

I can live without a FB helm. Even the FB. Here the prevalence of FBs is largely a temperature thing, further you go north and warmer, more FB helms with no lower helm. Go south, it reverses. I doubt there are many FB only helms in Tasmania(state), there is no land mass between Tassie and Antarctica.
Riviera and Maritimo build so many boats with no lower helm I suspect a lower helm requires a special order. Deleting lower helm plus the extra space from having "clingaround" instead of trawler type "walk around" decks adds to usable main cabin area. FBs on their larger boats are often fully enclosed with f/g, glass and f/g roofing, and no doubt a/c and heat, for all weather use.

 

[O C Diver]

Very interesting. I appreciate you expounding on the subject. We've looked at a lot of boats over time and seen some excellent and some horrible lower helms. Hatteras on their 60-100' motoryachts generally doesn't put lower helms now. But looking at the 60', even on their plans where they would add one it was deficient in every way you mention. The worst thing was the windshield angle. Very sloped windshield nice for the seating area, but horrible to use to operated a boat.

Separation for night issue is interesting because I've seen a couple of boats that I can't even remember with excellent blinds or screens you could close and easily block out the light. Yet that's two or three out of hundreds and the others don't provide anything like that.

Now, a lot of lower helms now do have ready and immediate access to the side deck. More and more people have demanded it. Off center is an interesting issue as I also prefer centered but it strikes me as strange that I do. I'd never want my car changed to a center driver's station.

The one area that I forgot to mention was the placement of everything at the helm. A good pilothouse has an elevated seat at a control station (sort of a wrap around desk). Most lower helms have you sitting at an elevated counter that is generally more functional if you stand at it versus being seated. There is also much less of the wrap around effect. At a good helm station, all gauges and displays are angled as much as practical to be perpendicular in both the horizontal and vertical plane to your line of sight when seated. If you find yourself moving as opposed to rotating eyes or head to see a display or gauge better, it was poorly placed. Finally, are engine controls well placed relative to the helm wheel. Can you operate both at the same time or does the positioning make it awkward. Next time you go on an unfamiliar boat, sit at the helm and decide how well everything faces you and how natural operating the wheel and engine controls feel.

Ted