Pre-purchase inq re Grand Banks window leak damage

[rhoulio]

I have been looking for a 32 GB. In my price range, two boats ‘77 & ‘79 have interior stained teak frames along with many places on the painted wall surfaces where it looks like joint filler has fallen out. I’ll try to attach photos. Is this of great concern? The teak decks need attention too and I believe I can handle doing myself but how do you know if there are problems below where the screws attach to?

 

[Cigatoo]

I see stains on the teak. The stains do not appear to be coming from underneath which is a good thing. I do not see signs of water around any of the interior screws where the paint is falling off. Also a good thing. The screws holding the interior plywood are not bunged. The filler / paint flaking off is somewhat normal. Poke around with a sharp object looking for soft spots. As far as the teak decks go look closely for stains on the headliner down below. The decks are a lot of work to put back in shape, maintain, and or remove. Your choice. An experienced man or women with a moisture meter is your friend.
Any 40 plus year old boat is going to have leaks and need work. (Lots) These are good boats that can be put back in shape with constant work. We love ours. BUT If you won’t enjoy the challenge of constant maintenance look for a newer boat costing more money. In the end an old boat needing work will cost as much as a newer (Initially more expensive) boat if you want to keep it nice.

Currently owning a Grand Banks and having owned a 200 plus year old house in the past I see the similarities.

 

[PM]

Looks to me like the inside of the windows damage is very minor. In cold climes the windows will sweat in the spring and fall and with cooking. It looks to me like that is all you are dealing with. Just recaulk the outside after getting the old filler out. If there is a minor amount of rot try some "Gitrot" it turns the soft wood into fiberglass.

It is worrisome that so many bungs are gone and there is probably some damage below. Are the decks soft? If not just add new bungs or caulk and away you go.

The black caulk stripes do not appear to be functional. On many teak decks the planks are separate and laid with the space in between the individual planks. Yours almost appear to be "sheet goods". I have never seen the caulk fail like in your case, but it really looks to be cosmetic. Gauge it out, tape it and recaulk with black 5200 or 4200. It should outlive you.

My advice to people contemplating older trawlers is always the same...

Go for it!

pete

 

[Mike GB32]

I’ve been working at fixing some of the same issues on my ‘74 32.
I have the same peeling paint at the interior window area. It was caused by leaking windows tracks. You might want to remove the seat cushions below, pull the wooden panel up (below the seat cushion) and check for rotted wood. That’s where the leaking water might settle. I had minor damage. Caught it in time. The fix was to replace the window tracks and re-seal.

 

[Mike GB32]

I would suggest a polysulfide caulk for the decks.

 

[Choices]

My 36 is newer, 92, but I finally got a minor leak.

Most leaks are from window drains becoming clogged. Clean them each time you wash the boat.

Rebedding windows is a lot of work but relatively little money. Well worth the effort.

The windows do sweat, you must run a small heater or dehumidifier. I have a small space heater sitting next to the engine, and I raise the hatch. The whole boat stays about 60 when high 30s. No condensation.

GBs used Bondo for fairing. After 25 years it can fail. I just used Awlwood and built it back up and sanded it smooth. Will last forever.

Go to my blog, grandbankschoices, and see how I did it.

 

[Comodave]

The teak deck would be my biggest concern. They are screwed down in the older GBs. You have hundreds of screws holding the teak strips down. The holes go through the fiberglass and will let water into the deck core which will then rot and turn to mush. The permanent fix is to remove the teak strips on the deck and possibly remove the core if it has gone bad. Then fiberglass the deck and paint it with a nonskid paint. It isn’t hard technically but it is hard work, you will be on your knees and if your knees are like mine it is tough work. But once you are done it should be good forever if done well and you pay attention to how you caulk any holes you drill in the deck. I would guess if you do it yourself it will cost less than $2K. If you pay to have it done then probably $10K or more. In looking at your photos the teak deck looks like it is near the end of life since the screws are becoming exposed and there isn’t enough teak left to put a bung in the screw holes.

 

[Xsbank]

Judging by the condition of the decks, the boat has been neglected. You are looking at many boat dollars to remove those decks and fibreglass over with non-skid. Find a better one.

 

[SoWhat]

Considering the number of missing bungs I think it is safe to say there is some penetration into the plywood core. And considering the absence of caulking it might also be safe to say it's been that way for a long time. If the structural integrity is compromised and the deck is like a trampoline it needs to be recored. A very expensive and time consuming job. You could get a better idea of extent of damage if any from a surveyor.

If you just do day trips in flat water you may not care. Just recaulk and go. But the value of a 50K boat would drop to 20K if the structure is compromised.

 

[rhoulio]

Thks for all the info, a lot to consider for sure. I walked on those decks and didn’t notice anything but I wasn’t really looking for any sponginess, And I never considered the flush screws and possibly no depth for bungs. It still appears there is some thickness left as seen where caulking is gone so I wonder, would it be likely so could reset screws they are not in far enough and/or use one of those sharp little saws to cut thin bung slices to fit? And one more... do they use typical wood glue for bangs or something more removable?
Thanks again and I’m sure I’ll get more active on this forum once I can see another boat or two, and finally own one. A 32GB has been a small dream of mine for 25 years, and now about to retire so this is the year to find the right one.

 

[Comodave]

A lot of decks with core that is rotted do not act spongy. You need to have a moisture reading of the deck by someone that knows how to use the meter. If it is fiberglass then a rudimentary test is a phenolic hammer and listen for the sound when it is tapped, it is called percussive testing. Probably not as accurate as a meter but can give you an idea about the core. The sound when tapped should be a sharp noise not a dull thud.

 

[PM]

I have used those "bung drills" they work well, you can cut hundreds of bungs quickly. Your decks do not look thick enough to re-bung. I would estimate that at a minimum you need one quarter inch thick bungs, 3/8 would be better. It doesn't look like you even have 1/8.

Bungs are not designed to be removed. They need to be fastened with a permanent adhesive.

There are cheaper, easier options but... I think those decks will end up coming off.

pete

 

[GrandBanksBandit]

Thks for all the info, a lot to consider for sure. I walked on those decks and didn’t notice anything but I wasn’t really looking for any sponginess, And I never considered the flush screws and possibly no depth for bungs. It still appears there is some thickness left as seen where caulking is gone so I wonder, would it be likely so could reset screws they are not in far enough and/or use one of those sharp little saws to cut thin bung slices to fit? And one more... do they use typical wood glue for bangs or something more removable?
Thanks again and I’m sure I’ll get more active on this forum once I can see another boat or two, and finally own one. A 32GB has been a small dream of mine for 25 years, and now about to retire so this is the year to find the right one.

Love our GB32...go for it, 32’s are amazing and easy to work on.

 

[Kurplunk]

A 32GB has been a small dream of mine for 25 years, and now about to retire so this is the year to find the right one.

I have a 1976 36-502 and love the boat. They are fairly straightforward to work on and clean up quite nicely. IMHO, the vintage age of the two vessels is your friend this time. Good luck!

 

[SoWhat]

Bungs are not designed to be removed. They need to be fastened with a permanent adhesive.

Bungs should be installed so they can be removed. A thin coating of varnish is the typical method for installation. A dull drywall screw in the middle will pull them out. If epoxied in, they will never come out.

 

[koliver]

Not real clear from your photos.
Without seeing the decks, I can say for certain that the screws holding the teak down are now redundant, as the polysulphide or clone that was used originally is doing a fine job by itself. Remove any of the screws that show, cut down any of the bungs that are sitting proud of the deck, throw both away and drill out a new hole for a taller bung where needed. fasten the new bungs in with a little varnish, as suggested, or any waterproof glue, not white glue. Then when these bungs need to come out, say in another 40 years, they will come out without having to damage the surrounding teak.

 

[roddy]

Don't use 4200 or 5200. You will regret doing so.
As others suggested use Git Rot or Smiths... Allow smiths to set up then fill hole with epoxy let harden. either re-drill hole or drill new hole. Clear out seams best you can. Its lot of work(work in progress) on vessel with teak decks Use Teak Deck Systems product to calk seams. $$$$$.
Clean out deck fill holes and recaulk with Dolphinite under deck fill and let it setup then tighten screws down somewhat. Tighten bit more next day. Idea is to keep dolphinite under tension not to ooze it out. Use dolphinite under toe rails and trim.
Use sikaflex under windows, dolplinite on sides and top.
Don't forget to invest in good set of knee pads!

 

[Xlantic]

The seam compound is in terrible condition. It looks like its has disintegrated. It needs to be replaced which is a lot of work but doable.

And all those visible screws will need to be reset deeper and plugged with bungs. Again, it is a lot of work but doable.

The question is if there enough thickness left in the decks. It is never easy to tell, particularly from photographs. In your case it looks pretty borderline.

The Grand Banks forum has lot's of good advice on decks:
International Association of Grand Banks Owners - International Association of Grand Banks Owners Forum Index

Search through archives and you will see technique to reset the fasteners and even on how to make the seams deeper. In particular note the solid advice of Bob Lowe.