Previous hull damage

[wallyman424]

Looking for some opinions on this one.


Currently shopping for a boat. Found one that ticks all my boxes. Its not too far away, very good shape, maintained well, clean engine room etc. Price is probably at market ask, maybe 5% or so higher than market ask.



The story is this. The boat was listed last year. During this period it was on the hard for a while for service. It was hit in the yard by a drunk driver (yikes) and sustained damage. According to the broker there was prop, propshaft and hull damage. The boat was professionally repaired, has a new hull paint job, bottom job, new prop and new propshaft. He says the hull damage did not penetrate the entire hull. I am currently waiting for pictures of the damage pre repair and the repair order to see exactly what they did.



The boat in question is a cored boat. The hullsides and top are definitely baltek balsa coring and the bottom is either baltek or corecell (unclear).



What are ya'lls opinions on this. I know if done right it can be as good as new, but I have a few lingering questions.



- Does damage like this diminish the value of the boat? What are we talking 10%? 20%?
- What are the risks of these repairs, assuming its just the outer skin and maybe some coring material that had to be repaired.

 

[Larry M]

We had a boat that was dropped when the rear strap of the travel lift broke. $66K worth of insurance money later the boat was worth more than before. The rudder had to be rebuilt, the keel repaired, new shaft, shaft log and the list goes on including new fuel tanks. The hull was cored with Airex. When it came time to sell the boat 10 years later, the documentation and pictures helped sell it. Rob Eberly, in New Bern did the survey for the buyers.

With the accident pictures, the repair order and a good survey you should be able to determine if the repairs were done correctly. You have a new paint job, shaft, prop, hulls been painted, etc. A 5% higher selling price, who knows? I'd go into with my eyes wide open but I wouldn't cross it off my list. either.

 

[North Baltic sea]

Hi,


Many open questions?


Basically, a well repaired glass fiber damage is OK and I do not think that it justifies a price reduction.


But, if the bottom of the boat is also a cored of structure and the accident has allowed the water to be absorbed into the filling is the demanding correction, because the filling should be dry or the entire wet area can be changed and it can be remarkably wide because the water is capillary, this must be done carefully before the fiberglass repair.


Be careful and carefully examine the report on repair and moisture measurements, if you make a clouse the offer for a boat, do a good survey of the person who understands the cored structure, perhaps the most reliable way to detect moisture in the cored structure is thermal imaging, no moisture metres.


NBs

 

[wallyman424]

Thanks,


I guess the good thing is the boat was not in the water when all this happened, so the likelihood of water intrusion into the core material is pretty low.



Very curious to see the damage pictures and repair report.

 

[Comodave]

It all depends on what the quality of the repairs are. Done correctly, not a real problem. Done poorly, huge problem. Remember they probably will not give you a warranty on the repairs since you were not the customer. I would ask for a warranty if I made an offer. If they won’t give you one that would equal a large price reduction in my mind or I would walk away. There is a thread here recently on cored hulls. You might look at it.

 

[sunchaser]

It all depends on what the quality of the repairs are. .

Yes

Talk to the yard that did the work and get details as to work performed on all items. This includes shaft alignment, cutlass bearings and vibration tested. Also, have a different pro yard guy look at the pictures the yard, the owner and insurance company took.

Why is boat being sold?

 

[wallyman424]

Yes

Talk to the yard that did the work and get details as to work performed on all items. This includes shaft alignment, cutlass bearings and vibration tested. Also, have a different pro yard guy look at the pictures the yard, the owner and insurance company took.

Why is boat being sold?

It was for sale prior to the accident happening as well and got pulled from the market to repair. I believe the folks are just getting out of boating.

 

[bayview]

Internal structures such as stringers, ribs and engine mounts should be thoroughly inspected. The external things are easy to see and fix but hidden structural damage may be hard to see

 

[Ski in NC]

A good repair in recent times should have photos documenting the whole process.

Ask for those.

Second all the others that if done right, not a big deal at all.

Devil is in the details, and the photos would help.

 

[wallyman424]

Yeah I think this has all been good info. Seems to confirm that as long as it was done right I should be ok. I'll definitely get all the pictures and repair write-up as well as talk to the yard. I know a surveyor locally that is supposed to be very versed in fiberglass moisture with thermal imaging and everything.

I think asking for a repair warranty is a great idea as well.

 

[JohnEasley]

All made good points and I agree... if repaired properly, not necessarily a deal killer. Please post the pre-repair photos, once received.

By the way, we also live in Lakeland and our probably-new-to-us boat goes to survey and sea trial tomorrow. Exciting times, huh?

 

[wallyman424]

Ok here are the updates:


The Story: Boat was on the hard to repair prop and propshaft. The propshaft had broken and the boat was to get a new shaft, seal, bearings and prop. The boat was in the yard facing a road perpendicularly. A car spun off the road through some grass and clipped the bow, knocking the boat off its stands to the starboard. It landed on the starboard hull on top of a collapsed stand which caused the main penetration. There was also some rudder damage.



Attached are pictures of the bow damage, the hull and the hull zoomed in.



The repair receipt isnt very specific, just fiberglass repair, paint etc. Also mentions rudder box repair and rudder realignment. I'll try and give the yard a call this weekend to get some details.

 

[Larry M]

I can’t tell from the pictures but how big an area is in picture 2? What’s the coring? And what did they do to restore the damaged core area? The third picture looks like the hull penetration went through the core into the inner skin.

 

[Benthic2]

The damage doesn't seem that significant, but I'd be concerned that the prop shaft broke!! How does that happen ?? Is that a sign of a neglectful owner ??

 

[Comodave]

If it fell off the stands onto a hard surface then I would be concerned about the structural damage besides the obvious damage to the hull. Have all the bulkheads been checked for damage, loose at the hull joint? Engine beds and on and on. If it fell off then I would probably walk away.

 

[wallyman424]

The damage doesn't seem that significant, but I'd be concerned that the prop shaft broke!! How does that happen ?? Is that a sign of a neglectful owner ??

That is a bizarre one, it doesnt seem to be a sign of neglect. The boat has probably the best service history I've seen. He showed me a picture of the shaft, it literally sheered. Its a single engine with keel and a sand shoe.



I'll have to call the yard this weekend and see what else they can tell me. Its a shame, its a really nice boat.

 

[wallyman424]

If it fell off the stands onto a hard surface then I would be concerned about the structural damage besides the obvious damage to the hull. Have all the bulkheads been checked for damage, loose at the hull joint? Engine beds and on and on. If it fell off then I would probably walk away.

Not really a "fall" persay, more of a tip over. The boat is a single engine with keel. It was resting on its keel with stands on either side to keep it upright. THe car hit the very tip of the bow and knocked it over onto the stand.



But yes, I agree I'm more worried about what can't be seen.

 

[wallyman424]

I can’t tell from the pictures but how big an area is in picture 2? What’s the coring? And what did they do to restore the damaged core area? The third picture looks like the hull penetration went through the core into the inner skin.

Its probably about a foot or so. The coring is balsa. I'll have to get more info about what they did for replacement coring.

 

[BruceK]

I recently walked on a balsa cored below (and above) the water boat, which had not(to my knowledge) been hit by a car.
You have 3 separate issues:1. Why it broke a propshaft and how well that was resolved, 2.Should you buy a "cored below water" boat with or without damage history,3.The state of the cored hull.
Pic 3 does not fill me with confidence. You have the advantage of viewing the exposed coring. I`ve not seen it before so I`m guessing, but that does not look good to me. When was the pic taken,? just after impact. Is the core condition fresh or old, it looks old to me.
As above,I come to this with a pre-existing view about cored hulls.

 

[wallyman424]

I recently walked on a balsa cored below (and above) the water boat, which had not(to my knowledge) been hit by a car.
You have 3 separate issues:1. Why it broke a propshaft and how well that was resolved, 2.Should you buy a "cored below water" boat with or without damage history,3.The state of the cored hull.
Pic 3 does not fill me with confidence. You have the advantage of viewing the exposed coring. I`ve not seen it before so I`m guessing, but that does not look good to me. When was the pic taken,? just after impact. Is the core condition fresh or old, it looks old to me.
As above,I come to this with a pre-existing view about cored hulls.

Yeah, I've gone back and forth myself a thousand times on the cored vs non cored issues, I'm not trying to get into that here, however based on those pictures the coring looks fine to me.



Its balsa, specifically baltek coring. Its not discolored, you can still see it looks like wood, splintering apart, not mushy.



The brain absolutely tells me to pass and wait, however i like the boat a lot.



And regarding the propshaft, I believe the prop struck something and it sheered off. The entire system has been replaced from the prop nut all the way to the engine mounting flange.

 

[Larry M]

If it were me and I really wanted the boat, I’d make an offer, now for less after looking at the pictures. I’d find the best surveyor in the area and go for it, assuming you’re offer was accepted. It’s not a big area nor did the boat fall far but I’d think some discount should be accepted. It would be nice if there was more documentation on the repairs.

 

[MurrayM]

Has it been sea trialed with the new prop shaft to confirm alignment?

 

[wallyman424]

Has it been sea trialed with the new prop shaft to confirm alignment?

Yes and the new prop tuned to hit rated RPM

 

[hollywood8118]

I guess I would look at it like this,


If it was my boat and the same damage was done and repaired properly would I still feel the boat had the same value, both to me and if I were to sell it?


Many boats out there have some damage history and if properly repaired should not suffer in value.. properly is the key work here.


I have never understood the idea that a properly repaired boat ( car, boat,house etc. ) should have diminished value.



HOLLYWOOD

 

[Bacchus]

My $0.02...
Not only contact the yard that did the repair but find out and talk to the person that actually did the repair.
I would hope that after some discussion you would get a feel for competence, experience and exactly what they did.
I'd also expect that in addition to the external repair they would likely also do some internal repairs / reinforcing in the areas damaged into / through the coring.
I'd ask about whether they will warrant the repaired area... maybe for some additional $ which would be a justifiable price reduction or seller pays for the warranty $.
Just a thought.... what's to lose by asking politely? If nothing else it continues a constructive discussion where you might gather additional info.
I also wonder if the insurance co required a survey after work was completed?

 

[SteveZ]

broken shaft

There is a lot to unpack in this situation. It will all come down to the survey and you need a really good surveyor with a strong background in composite repairs.

Of all the things you described, the one that warrants the least concern is the broken shaft - a fairly common occurrence.

This article might be helpful regarding the shaft failures.

Steve Zimmerman

 

[Andiamo2018]

Why get a cored boat at all?

After years of working on and looking at boats 20 years old and older it seems clear that the boats with at least gelcoat cracks around arches, stairs, flybridge etc were all cored. I sort of specialize in old boats LOL. There may have been many older cored boats that did not have cracks and held up well but none of the boats I knew personally or was interested in were anything other than solid fiberglass.

When you talk to the folks in the boatyard ask them which boats they think are "lightly built" and which boats seem more solid.

As I do my own work a boat that is older but solid seems like the best bet for me. If I was paying a yard to do work for me then perhaps I would feel differently and would not care so much about the hull, stringers etc being more heavy duty. Simply having a newer boat with newer systems might be the most important things to consider.

All unasked-for editorializing aside, I agree with the posters who say if the work was done properly the boat will be at least as good as it was.

As far as price goes, that rarely makes sense to me. All of my experience is with boats around the 50k mark though. A 'repair' may not sound as good as an 'upgrade', but the reality is it could be the exact same thing.

I am finding myself hesitant to send this LOL. Perhaps I am kicking a hornet's nest?

 

[Rufus]

A yard doing a repair like this (presumably for an insurance company) better have extensive in-process photos taken during the repair. If not, they're less than professional...and so is the insurance company. No excuse for poor documentation in the era of digital cameras.

 

[The Sally Ann]

I personally would never buy a cored hulled boat even it had not been in an accident. It is not if but rather when it will get wet. After this damage that will have to be disclosed at resale you will find it very difficult to get a buyer. I say RUN!

 

[C lectric]

I won't comment on the hull damage as I think there are enough opinions here.

THe propeller shaft could simply be a coincidental break unless it hit the ground when the boat shifted. Even then I would expect a bend rather than a break although a bend ,if fallen on, could be serious
More than one prop shaft has broken due to poor machining practice. It can take years for this to happen.
Another cause would be improper/inadequate zincs. That can lead to crevice corrosion in SS shafting which can cause breaks.
Were the zincs adequate and what was their condition?

So where did the break occur? It does make a difference.

Are there photos of the break?
Does the repair person have any opinions of the cause?