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Pump out problem
- Thread starter frgeorgeh
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
So, having posted this layout, I have a question about regulations here in FL.
Is Lectra/Sans still legal Here to use on ICW AND NEAR SHORE
Yes...except for a few misguided marinas who think that forcing everyone to use holding tanks while on their property is "doing the right thing." The Keys and Destin Harbor are the only NDZ (no discharge zones) in FL...in the whole Gulf, in fact.
Am I possibly grandfathered in and legal due to age of system and boat?
Nope...but no need to be.
Where can I find current regs?
Federal marine sanitation regulations are spelled out in two parts of the Code of Federal Regulations:
40 CFR 140 PART 140--MARINE SANITATION DEVICE STANDARD
33 CFR part 159 Subpart A 33 CFR 159 (do not make the mistake of wandering beyond subpart A...B only applies to boat BUILDERS, not to owners)
You'll find the FL Marine Sanitation law here
Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine
And then there are the rules for the FL Keys:
Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary Regulations
The EPA list of NDZs, organized by state, is here: EPA NDZ list They do a pretty good job of keeping it up to date.
That oughta give you all the bed time reading you'll need for at least the rest of this week.
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frgeorgeh
Senior Member
So, having posted this layout, I have a question about regulations here in FL.
Is Lectra/Sans still legal Here to use on ICW AND NEAR SHORE
Yes...except for a few misguided marinas who think that forcing everyone to use holding tanks while on their property is "doing the right thing."
Thank you Head Mistress!
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Very valuable information I need to add to my files. Federal regulations already designate all "non-navigable" inland lakes as no discharge:
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(a) § 140.3 Standard. (1) In freshwater lakes, freshwater reservoirs or other freshwater impoundments whose inlets or outlets are such as to prevent the ingress or egress by vessel traffic subject to this regulation, or in rivers not capable of navigation by interstate vessel traffic subject to this regulation, marine sanitation devices certified by the U.S. Coast Guard (see 33 CFR part 159, published in 40 FR 4622, January 30, 1975), installed on all vessels shall be designed and operated to prevent the overboard discharge of sewage, treated or untreated, or of any waste derived from sewage. This shall not be construed to prohibit the carriage of Coast Guard-certified flow-through treatment devices which have been secured so as to prevent such discharges.
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Most of the closed inland lakes are Corps of Engineers lakes...that bulletin names all the TVA lakes, which is good to know.
It's also important to know that while the discharge of TREATED waste from USCG certified Type I or II MSD is legal on almost all of interstate inland river system, there are a few NDZs on those too...so if you do the Loop, you need to know where they are. You can find 'em in the EPA list of NDZs.
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(a) § 140.3 Standard. (1) In freshwater lakes, freshwater reservoirs or other freshwater impoundments whose inlets or outlets are such as to prevent the ingress or egress by vessel traffic subject to this regulation, or in rivers not capable of navigation by interstate vessel traffic subject to this regulation, marine sanitation devices certified by the U.S. Coast Guard (see 33 CFR part 159, published in 40 FR 4622, January 30, 1975), installed on all vessels shall be designed and operated to prevent the overboard discharge of sewage, treated or untreated, or of any waste derived from sewage. This shall not be construed to prohibit the carriage of Coast Guard-certified flow-through treatment devices which have been secured so as to prevent such discharges.
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Most of the closed inland lakes are Corps of Engineers lakes...that bulletin names all the TVA lakes, which is good to know.
It's also important to know that while the discharge of TREATED waste from USCG certified Type I or II MSD is legal on almost all of interstate inland river system, there are a few NDZs on those too...so if you do the Loop, you need to know where they are. You can find 'em in the EPA list of NDZs.
Lollygag
Senior Member
The situation I faced was very similar. I found that the 'lectra-san system, unused for years, emptied directly overboard, bypassing the holding tank. Removing the 'lectra-san involved cutting a new hatch, cleaning part of the bilge, cutting the passageway sole and spilling the contents of the hoses back into the bilge I just cleaned. Seriously wondered why the hell I was boating again but now it's fixed and all is well.
Start with the vent and eliminate all the easy fixes first. If the system you have still works you may only have to route it to the holding tank. If it's dead, take it out and go with standard plumbing to the tank. More and more places are banning dumping anything. Keep it simple.
Start with the vent and eliminate all the easy fixes first. If the system you have still works you may only have to route it to the holding tank. If it's dead, take it out and go with standard plumbing to the tank. More and more places are banning dumping anything. Keep it simple.
sea hag
Veteran Member
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Most of the closed inland lakes are Corps of Engineers lakes...that bulletin names all the TVA lakes, which is good to know.
Glad to provide useful information. Fortunately, the noted TVA list does not include the main lakes used for commercial, and thus cruising, traffic; TN Tom, Pickwick, Wilson, Wheeler, Guntersville, etc. Just more confusion!
Most of the closed inland lakes are Corps of Engineers lakes...that bulletin names all the TVA lakes, which is good to know.
Glad to provide useful information. Fortunately, the noted TVA list does not include the main lakes used for commercial, and thus cruising, traffic; TN Tom, Pickwick, Wilson, Wheeler, Guntersville, etc. Just more confusion!
Fortunately, the noted TVA list does not include the main lakes used for commercial, and thus cruising, traffic; TN Tom, Pickwick, Wilson, Wheeler, Guntersville, etc.
That's because a) they aren't TVA lakes and b) they're all navigable interstate waterways...iow, rivers that eventually lead to the sea and under USCG jurisdiction (although state laws do apply as long as they don't supercede federal law).
Pickwick, Wheeler, Guntersville etc aren't bodies of dammed up water in otherwise non-navigable rivers, they're just very wide dammed up places in the navigable rivers. Dale Hollow Lake is the only NDZ in the Tenn-Tom system...which explains why pumpout facilities are VERY few and far between on the Tenn-Tom.
New York is another story...they've made just about everything but Niagara Falls an NDZ and it wouldn't surprise me if they're trying to figure out to do that.
NY York is another story...
That's because a) they aren't TVA lakes and b) they're all navigable interstate waterways...iow, rivers that eventually lead to the sea and under USCG jurisdiction (although state laws do apply as long as they don't supercede federal law).
Pickwick, Wheeler, Guntersville etc aren't bodies of dammed up water in otherwise non-navigable rivers, they're just very wide dammed up places in the navigable rivers. Dale Hollow Lake is the only NDZ in the Tenn-Tom system...which explains why pumpout facilities are VERY few and far between on the Tenn-Tom.
New York is another story...they've made just about everything but Niagara Falls an NDZ and it wouldn't surprise me if they're trying to figure out to do that.
NY York is another story...
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If they are decent quality valves you should be able to take them apart. On the ones I've had experience with, you remove the handle and then the screws holding the top on the valve body.
Once you have it apart you can clean the inside of the valve chamber (I have used very fine bronze wool for this or you can use fine-grit sandpaper--- 220 and up) and the valve selector body itself. There may be a better way of doing this, and if anyone knows what it is it will be Peggie.
When I put it back together I lube the inside of the thing with dish soap (Joy, etc) just to get it all started. You could also grease the handle shaft where it goes through the top of the valve.
If the valve is readily accessible you can do this with the valve in place.
If you have to remove a valve from the hoses it's attached to, I've found that heat (from a heat gun) applied carefully to the hose end does absolute wonders for getting hoses off or on without damage.
Slight correction...The other lakes you mention are TVA reservoirs. But they are navigable rivers as well so don't fit the restrictions.
List of all TVA reservoirs here:
TVA: Reservoir Information
Now, to the mindset of all the NDZ's. There's a certain irony because these same lakes are where the local sewage treatment plant is generally emptying. So what is the difference? I think it's two fold and would love to hear your comments and opinion. First, it's the difficulty of telling whether the boat is dumping treated or untreated sewage. So, it's easier to say no discharge. Second, it seems to me to be a general lack of confidence in the quality of treatment by marine systems. Perhaps a belief one can't trust the operators to properly maintain them or perhaps just can't believe small systems could work so well. No system in place for inspection and testing.
Yet, technology has advanced amazingly over the years. People use watermakers and drink the water from the same lakes they're emptying into. Another irony is that so many of the homes along these lakes and rivers are not connected to any municipal sewage system and are using septic tanks themselves, many of those septic fields coming quite close to the water. Approximately 25% of the US population uses septic tanks today.
On a smaller boat, holding tanks and pumping of them is relatively practical. On a large boat with 2000 gallons of holding tanks and 12 people on board, then far less so. Many of the pump out stations aren't equipped for such volume on top of their other customers.
It's a complicated issue and doesn't seem to me anyone has found the complete answer yet.
