Quick question “what if?”

[trawlercap]

A calm beautiful day. Cruising at 3/4 throttle, Your offshore from land all alone. guests are loungin with drinks when, suddenly your boat heals sharply to port. Your wife spill from her upper chair, guests shriek, Things slide off tables, water is up to your dock buoys, the port rail dipping under water. What’s the first thing you do, what’s second? Third?

Playing “what if?” With myself and crew kept us alive and productive over 30 years in the Bering Sea.

 

[markpierce]

What? You hit a submarine? ... Call mayday and take on life
preservers. Assess the situation.

 

[psneeld]

To get to that situation that fast...prepare for abandon ship, make sure you have an EPIRB/PLB, get out a mayday/DSC distress.


At that rate of roll, there may not be time for second and third orders.

 

[rslifkin]

Are all engines still running? Bilge pumps running? Any abnormal noise or thud?

Also get a mayday (or at least a pan pan) out.

 

[psneeld]

If the rail is going under...I wouldn't be using "pan pan"....or really worrying about anything else but flotation and survival gear...the boat is rolling, sinking is secondary. Getting trapped or hit by a rolling boat is serious.


If things go static, then regroup and rethink.

 

[klee wyck]

1st thing, pull the throttles back, then turn the wheel hard to port into the heel.
Either you lost one engine/prop or a current grabbed your keel crossing from port.
Third thing, assess the effect of your corrective action and respond.

Did I sink??

 

[rslifkin]

If the rail is going under...I wouldn't be using "pan pan"....or really worrying about anything else but flotation and survival gear...the boat is rolling, sinking is secondary. Getting trapped or hit by a rolling boat is serious.


If things go static, then regroup and rethink.

Agreed. I was operating on the assumption that the list happened suddenly, but then at least momentarily stayed at that point.

 

[psneeld]

Klee Wyck...Those things offshore would put your rail under in seconds?


But realistically, I cant think of one thing that could do that to a fiberglass or metal boat....the only way a boat is going to roll that quickly without obvious environmentals is to a wooden boat that popped a plank.


Or a glass or metal boat where the operator is so clueless they never felt the boat getting sluggish from all the water aboard from some smaller ingress reason.

 

[trawlercap]

1st thing, pull the throttles back, then turn the wheel hard to port into the heel.
Either you lost one engine/prop or a current grabbed your keel crossing from port.
Third thing, assess the effect of your corrective action and respond.

Did I sink??

Thats my thoughts yes. It's the response you gotta train for. Power down turn asses. Great! I've turned into a heavy list more times than I can remember.. Rule: if the boat lays over, steer to the low side.

 

[trawlercap]

Klee Wyck...Those things offshore would put your rail under in seconds?


But realistically, I cant think of one thing that could do that to a fiberglass or metal boat....the only way a boat is going to roll that quickly without obvious environmentals is to a wooden boat that popped a plank.


Or a glass or metal boat where the operator is so clueless they never felt the boat getting sluggish from all the water aboard from some smaller ingress reason.[/QUOTE

Any boat can flood undetected to a point of danger.

 

[psneeld]

But what would cause a list to put the rail down on the average recreational trawler?

 

[rslifkin]

Klee Wyck...Those things offshore would put your rail under in seconds?


But realistically, I cant think of one thing that could do that to a fiberglass or metal boat....the only way a boat is going to roll that quickly without obvious environmentals is to a wooden boat that popped a plank.


Or a glass or metal boat where the operator is so clueless they never felt the boat getting sluggish from all the water aboard from some smaller ingress reason.

Sudden shift of a heavy object that should be secured? Like some large batteries? And possible related water ingress. That prompted my question about a thud.

 

[psneeld]

No way....I have a LOT of experience with sinking boats and I just have seen few boats list and roll that weren't half sunk already and the skipper was clueless. Every boat I have ever run with water in the bilge stated to handle different long before it would ever put a rail under.

Rough conditions are one thing, the example was a calm, beautiful day.

 

[oscar]

Any boat can flood to a point of danger undetected.

Hmmm.... If there is enough water inside to slosh it to the gunnels once of a sudden the boat was behaving VERY differently in the moments leading up to that point. If you don't notice that I suggest golf, or collecting stamps.

Meanwhile I agree, steer into the turn while putting on a life vest and grabbing a handheld VHF then go take care of your passengers.

 

[skyhawk]

fish in the water snag on something?

 

[psneeld]

Large vessels with cargo I can see developing a severe list in heavy weather. Recreational vessel in calm weather with live load (passengers) seated developing a sudden SEVERE list? Nope ....don't buy it without some other circumstance that might give a clue.

Several hundred gallons of water in a 40 foot trawler won't bury a rail in calm water, but a gentle swell or decent turn will let you know if you are reasonably experienced.

I don't think I have ever experienced a list of more than 10 degrees...in all my life on the water, recreational, commercial, USCG ships in calm to hurricanes. Enty of times did I have a lot of water in the bilge or shifted cargo. Even half sunk boats being towed didnt suddenly roll that bad.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Once you get a critical amount of water in the bilge, all stability bets are OFF. I expect that amount is different for every boat.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_surface_effect

 

[OldDan1943]

May day, PDF, investigate

 

[SoWhat]

Turn off the autopilot
Back off starboard throttle
Make sure the upper chair isn't broken

 

[ksanders]

Klee Wyck...Those things offshore would put your rail under in seconds?


But realistically, I cant think of one thing that could do that to a fiberglass or metal boat....the only way a boat is going to roll that quickly without obvious environmentals is to a wooden boat that popped a plank.


Or a glass or metal boat where the operator is so clueless they never felt the boat getting sluggish from all the water aboard from some smaller ingress reason.

I agree with you! There is NOTHING that would cause that level of roll that is recoverable.

Yes since you are at the helm, you woulf go to idle and turn rudders opposite, but that is honestly a wasted action.

BTW no way to get any serious water in the bilge because you have high water alarms, more than one of them that you test regularly.

 

[Portage_Bay]

The point of a "What if" exercise is to think about what you should do in that situation. It is about developing procedures and responses. An element of training.

The point is not about what systems you have installed to prevent the severe roll such as high bilge level alarms or emergency dewatering pumps. That is part of preparedness.

Nor is the point about why a recreational trawler will not suffer such a severe roll. That is understanding your vessel.

But things can sometimes go beyond what you are prepared for or think you understand.

A "What if" exercise is a useful, low expense, easy to way to self evaluate what you would / should do.

 

[Small Dinghy]

If I was driving and dumped my wife onto the floor....I'd choose to go down with the ship.

 

[skyhawk]

some have written back off starboard throttle (which implies port side drive turning the boat to starboard)
some wrote turn opposite....which I'll assume is to starboard

but if healing to port....wouldn't turning to starboard bury the port rail even deeper? (unless the boat is on plane?)

My reaction would likely be to back off all throttles
but i wonder....could it be that this is the wrong action....much like backing of the throttle when in the road if you have a blow-out with one of your tires?

 

[trawlercap]

some have written back off starboard throttle (which implies port side drive turning the boat to starboard)
some wrote turn opposite....which I'll assume is to starboard

but if healing to port....wouldn't turning to starboard bury the port rail even deeper? (unless the boat is on plane?)

My reaction would likely be to back off all throttles
but i wonder....could it be that this is the wrong action....much like backing of the throttle when in the road if you have a blow-out with one of your tires?

Pullback throttles (don’t drive the boat deeper) turn hard over to the low side (port) apply power. It may look like nothing is happening, takes a while to move water around inside. I’ve done more than one 360. To bring it up.

 

[Alaskaflyer]

If the rail is going under...I wouldn't be using "pan pan"....or really worrying about anything else but flotation and survival gear...the boat is rolling, sinking is secondary. Getting trapped or hit by a rolling boat is serious.


If things go static, then regroup and rethink.

Yep, aviate, navigate THEN communicate. No use calling the Coast Guard to recover your corpse.

 

[Alaskaflyer]

It’s counterintuitive to turn into a heel and would need to be drilled into you or at least pondered before you take action.

 

[SteveK]

Shameless plug for Jack Molan "My 30 years at sea"

No way this will occur in calm conditions with an attentive captain and no collision.

 

[Solly]

The first thing I'd think is WTF.
Next would be glad for the safety briefing everybody got b-4 leaving.. Life jackets, emergency equipment, what to do if this or that happens.

 

[Alaskaflyer]

I suppose loss of hydraulic on a ship with twin variable pitch propellers could cause this. Most of us are untethered to this particular risk.

That or collision with a big honkin’ whale

 

[rubenova]

Back in the 70's my grandparents boat's autopilot spun the wheel all the way to port. Completely random failure of some sort. Pulled the throttle back, placed in neutral and helped pick up the carnage. We continued the trip with my brother and I taking turns at the wheel.