Ray McCormack Sunseeker 54 delivery to Hawaii currently underway

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psneeld said:
All you have to do is read the avetage TF post on zraworthyness or stability to see the diffetence between the experienced and the not so much when commenting on a particular issue/situation.
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I’ve read through this entire thread and most of the discussion is from experienced and knowledgable members. Not sure of your point, but it is not accurate to dismiss opinions as “inexperienced” just because they differ from your own.
 
guy with a boat said:
I’ve read through this entire thread and most of the discussion is from experienced and knowledgable members. Not sure of your point, but it is not accurate to dismiss opinions as “inexperienced” just because they differ from your own.
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I'm not dismissing all posts or parts of all posts....I just pointed out the easy to see misinformation often put out before many facts are in or misunderstanding of boat design.

There is as much good info as bad all too often and just pointing it out to the very inexperienced trying to learn.

Other pros have pointed this out too. One of the most errant posts is one discussing stability based on only a phophoto. Another would be thinking only some shapes or designs are seaworthy when accurate weather forecasts and boats with a little speed can alter that equation.

Us I was referencing TF in general, not specifically to this thread.
 
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For those chuckling at the naysayers such as myself, you may want to wait until the dust settles. I'd love to know more about the fuel burn and such as clearly there are some lessons to be learned from a delivery such as this.

But let's be clear - deliveries are NOT binary - simply arriving isn't enough. This isn't a Formula 1 race where it's a badge of honor if the car self destructs 10 meters after taking the checkered flag. Condition of the boat upon arrival matters. I wonder what this boat looks like inside.

Attached are a couple pictures of Lei Lani today as she arrived. Zoom in and make your own opinion on whether the barrels are lashed in a manner you'd be pleased with if it was your boat.

By his own words, Ray McCormack has had owners seriously pissed about condition of their boat upon delivery. The third screenshot is from August where McCormack complains he lost a lawsuit where he sued a client for $7k the owner withheld. The owner successfully argued the boat was damaged by McCormack and abandoned short of it's destination. To buttress his claim the owner lied and screwed him, McCormack included a picture of the boat as he left it. Judging by the bedraggled sail, it doesn't look the way a responsible delivery skipper would leave a yacht for it's owner. Again, these are McCormacks words and pictures, not mine or the owners. Let's not forget, he sunk Boat Bum Gal because he followed rhe 10-meter deprh through a rocky coast - his own words are damning. .

BTW - the lesson McCormack learned about the lawsuit he lost? Collect his fees in full ahead of time, especially from Canadians (his words, not mine). So that's the guy some are defending.

Peter

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I followed this guys journey mostly on SA forum. I wanted them to succeed mostly because i didn't want anyone hurt . I was interested in how a boat might perform being operated at such a long distance outside its design perimeters. Idling the Mann diesels for almost 2 weeks and trying to navigate with a small rudder flat bottom boat.The SA forum was 157 pages of post by some really nasty individuals. Most of the post contained comments and language i would never see in this forum. I really do appreciate the people in this group and would likely be happy to be docked next to any one of you.
 
SA is far more uncensored than most other boating forums.

The Sunseeker isn't particularly flat bottomed, but still not meant for that kind of use. Interestingly, apparently the owner checked with MAN and they approved the long period at low RPM as a non issue.

It's slightly surprising to see that they made it with seemingly no trouble and even the canvas intact after the weather they went through. I'm really curious what condition the boat is in and how much fuel they had left though. They do still have to get the boat from Kona to Honolulu, but relatively speaking, that should be the easy part.
 
rslifkin said:
Interestingly, apparently the owner checked with MAN and they approved the long period at low RPM as a non issue.
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I'm not really surprised to hear that, though I'd suspect their response may have also included some guidance on minimum operating temps.

-Chris
 
Glad they made it safely.

On Facebook, Ray said they "left with 2300 gallons, rolled into Kona with 110 gallons", but that they sped up in the end when they knew they would make it. Not a good margin.

He also commented that MAN said the engines were fine at 700 rpm for extended periods.
 
“He also commented that MAN said the engines were fine at 700 rpm for extended periods.”

Would anyone know if those MAN have oil coolers which are coolant-cooled versus raw water cooled?
 
Following was posted to Sailing Anarchy by the owner of Lei Lani, the Sunseeker delivered to Hawaii. He's obviously quite happy with the results and no damage reported.

Lei Lana has arrived in Honolulu this AM at about 6:30 AM December 24rd with a successful Pacific crossing from Long Beach, California with fuel to spare. The yacht carried 13,000 lbs. of fuel in bladders with fuel tubing, ball valves and an electric pump for efficient fuel transfer with a spare back-up hand pump. Enough fuel to make Honolulu. We had a planned stop in Hilo for safety to top off the main tank, but in working with the State of Hawaii over several days, they indicated that due to run-off from storm water and mud over the past few years, the draft of the water was too shallow to accommodate refueling, so they redirected use to Kona for a refueling stop.

On the first half of the voyage, Raymond caught Ahi and on the second half they caught 17 Mahi Mahi (I this brought home 20 LBS of fresh Mahi Mahi to put in the freezer).

We thought we had lost the refrigerator, but the coil just ice over and everything returned back to normal.

The yacht is equipped with (2) (Fuel Sipping) 800 HP MAN engines. Working with MAN Marine Factory in Germany, they saw no issues in running these engines for the voyage. The hourly fuel consumption was between 4-5 GPM per hour.

The yacht is equipped with two Epirbs, 6-man certified liferaft, a zodiac, and a second liferaft.

Also carried on board are 2 spare sets of belts and impellers.

This with months of preparation proved to be a success.

The only damage was a rivet on the rear of the Bimini top support that popped out. No other failures or damage to the Lei Lani Just dirty on the outside. The Hawaiian Lei on the bow of the yacht survived.

A delivery job executed flawlessly by Ray and his experienced team of two.

By the way I have shipped boats to Hawaii with Pasha(5 years ago a 35 foot Sea Ray), they would not take the yacht, TOO BIG

I spent 2 month looking at any other option.

The other shipper wanted 105K and it would not be delved to next summer.

Hawaii is not a easy place to get a large yacht to, Not like Trans-Atlantic where every month yachts are transferred.
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Mako said:
“He also commented that MAN said the engines were fine at 700 rpm for extended periods.”

Would anyone know if those MAN have oil coolers which are coolant-cooled versus raw water cooled?
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Never saw which MANs that boat has, but ours are raw water cooled.

-Chris
 
Yep, heat exchanger system for coolant, plus fuel, oil, and gear oil coolers.

-Chris
 
Sounds like a happy ending, thankfully. Lot of people were skeptical, myself included. Glad to be proven wrong.
Maybe he’s getting wiser?
 
twistedtree said:
The engine oil coolers are raw water cooled, or are you talking about a heat exchanger for keeping the engine coolant at temp? I think a raw water cooled oil cooler is quite unusual. I think Yanmar may be the only one.
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Cummins too??
 
Bmarler said:
Sounds like a happy ending, thankfully. Lot of people were skeptical, myself included. Glad to be proven wrong.
Maybe he’s getting wiser?
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Proven wrong or the delivery dodged a bullet? One of 5 empty chambers (Russian Roulette)?

I have to wonder about the MAN consultation. Recall, the first delivery attempt was aborted when a raw water coolant hose broke loose due to disintegrated hose clamp. Doesn't seem like a rigorous prep routine.

Peter
 
twistedtree said:
The engine oil coolers are raw water cooled, or are you talking about a heat exchanger for keeping the engine coolant at temp? I think a raw water cooled oil cooler is quite unusual. I think Yanmar may be the only one.
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My gassers have raw water cooled oil coolers (and trans coolers). It's not all that uncommon on higher output engines as it allows use of significantly smaller oil coolers for better packaging. I've debated putting in larger oil coolers and moving them into the coolant loop or adding thermostats to keep oil temps higher under light load because the raw water oil coolers were really optimized for sustained heavy loads.
 
Ray said he arrived in Kona with 110 gallons left, but he had sped up a little toward the last.

As one poster on SA put it, Congratulating Ray on making it to Hawaii in this boat, in these conditions, is akin to congratulating a drunk driver for driving home while intoxicated, but making it home without wrecking the car, or killing anyone.
 
Something about this thread reminds me of Evel Knievel. And Annie Edson Taylor. Taylor, a 63 year-old school teacher, was the first successful "captain" of a barrel going over Niagra Falls. She did it for the money and fame, both of which mainly eluded her after the feat. Of course, she didn't enlist a crew for her voyage (stunt?). Too bad she didn't have the internet to multiply her fame for her successful "barrel delivery."
 
Mako said:
I've never been, but have been repeatedly reminded of this. I've heard about the mediocre diving and onerous anchoring fees required. This seems like one of those places which is wonderful to visit via land, but not by sea.

Perhaps this is just something to accept. I've lived in Vietnam, and have taken numerous tours via land and sea. It is certainly one of those countries that isn't worth the effort, or thousands of dollars in fees, to visit by boat. By land, Viet will be one of your life's highlights however.

Anyway, several of our TF members have cruised to Hawaii, and it would be interesting to hear their thoughts on why they went, what they came away from it with, and would they truly recommend the trip to others.
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I've made the trip twice; once under sail and once in Delfin. As you say, as a cruising destination, Hawaii kind of sucks. If I push off the dock in Anacortes, WA, I'm within 10nm of twice the number of good anchorages than exist in the entire state of Hawaii, so going there to 'cruise' makes little sense. However, if you like the open ocean and the challenge/routine of longish blue water passages, a Hawaiian crossing can be fun. There are few places on earth where you can experience the beauty and grandeur of God's creation like the middle of the ocean, so there is that.
 
mvweebles said:
Folks, when it comes to accidents like Boat Bum Gal, I always give it time to shake-out before pointing fingers. Try to find teachable moments. But not this time - frankly, when I read Ray McCormack's account of the accident, I felt his own words sunk him.

Here is the full text of his Nov 6th 2023 Facebook post - I added the RED highlight as this was what really nailed his coffin shut for me:



For those interested, the Owner's account is described on Page 62 of this month's Latitude 38 HERE. I would cut/paste it here but cannot easily do so. If you read her account, she vigorously disputes Ray's characterization of the boat's condition. She claims she had all mechanical and rigging work reviewed by professionals, plus a recent survey of the boat.

Like I said, to my ears, McCormacks own words are what convinced me he was way off-base. Going to 10-meter line across any part of the Pacific Coast is just plain nuts, let alone a poorly charted area at 1am, with (according to heim - disputed by the owner) 22-kts of wind and a wonky autopilot. Let alone showing-up the morning of a 800nm delivery.

Peter

EDIT - To give some idea of the charts for this area - not very detailed, but clearly BBG was in an area it should not have been. Second larger view shows our track into Turtle Bay earlier that day.

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"I had no reference to the boat changing direction. Also, my coastal explorer stopped showing tracks for reference of the direction of the boat. "

Anyone who can make that statement is either lying or has no clue how CE even works.
 
Delfin said:
...... As you say, as a cruising destination, Hawaii kind of sucks. If I push off the dock in Anacortes, WA, I'm within 10nm of twice the number of good anchorages than exist in the entire state of Hawaii, so going there to 'cruise' makes little sense......
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No idea if it's true, but understand the boats owner operates charters, which would make sense.

Peter
 
mvweebles said:
Proven wrong or the delivery dodged a bullet? One of 5 empty chambers (Russian Roulette)?

I have to wonder about the MAN consultation. Recall, the first delivery attempt was aborted when a raw water coolant hose broke loose due to disintegrated hose clamp. Doesn't seem like a rigorous prep routine.

Peter
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Touché, wrong choice of words on my part. Nobody on this site would have taken that delivery to begin with, prep routine or not. Just too far out of parameters for safety. He was responsible for two other souls along with his own.
Unfortunately, this delivery will only fuel his ego and desire for more like it.
After all, there are four empty chambers left.
 
Here's what is known and not known about this delivery:

What is known:
- Obviously, delivery of a boat like this is possible.
- It didn't run out of fuel. According to owner, boat consumed around 13,000 lbs diesel (1800g).
- Relatedly, MAN diesels - even big ones (800hp) are pretty dang fuel efficient at low speed, well under 1gph which I find surprising.
- Boat's small rudders must have done just fine, as did the Autopilot
- a 50-ish foot express cruiser can handle some decent seas
- There are some serious credibility issues with Ray McCormack. By his own accounting, in 2023, he sunk one boat (Boat Bum Gal), and abandoned another delivery in Neah Bay that led to him unsuccessfully suing the owner.

What is unknown:
- Overall condition of the boat. I know, the owner said all was fine except for a snap-rivet on the bimini frame (I posted the quote from SA). From the pictures showing the drum lashing, I find that hard to believe. Not even sure that was the owner who posted.
- Effect of long-term idle-speed operation on large diesel engines - over 350 continuous hours in this case (effect especially on turbos). While MAN reportedly said this was not a problem, I continue to be suspect of the overall mechanical prowess of McCormack given the first attempt was aborted due to a hose clampthat disintegrated. Every time I've heard an engine OEM asked the "Can I operate at low RPMs long term?" answer has always been some flavor of "crank 'em up every few hours."
- Other troubled deliveries. According to a crew-person on another delivery, the boat sustained significant damage. And these are 2023 incidents only.
- What risk-mitigation was taken. I realize Capt Ray McCormack stated a test run, but a boat like that has other vulnerabilities - the engine hatches and electrics beneath for example. We any risk-mitigations taken, or was this left to luck? To BMarler's point, I'd have a hard time accepting a project like this unless I could reduce risk - perhaps McCormack did. Would be a good post-mortem discussion.
- Routine maintenance along the way - was oil added? Changed? How accessible were the engines?

I'd sure be interested in the back-story here. It's a fascinating delivery - much akin the the GB42 Classic that went from California to Hawaii many years ago. You really have to ask how much is luck vs skill?

Peter
 
Here’s a picture posted by Ray. I circled the “Bimini” frame damage? As with you Peter, the back story would be interesting. How did 3 people move around, hang out(on), sleep, prepare/eat meals on the trip? The way the inflatable is secured? Just my observations. It could be a great movie. :popcorn:
 

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From Ray McCormack as posted on Facebook. Note that they carried a total of 2300 gals diesel so indeed burned about 1 gal/nm. Also note that the aborted delivery attempt where the hose clamp on engine failed required the fuel to be offloaded to be repaired, meaning the fuel made the engines inaccessible.

Also of interest is his timeline of picking up the boat in Ensenada on a Saturday and running the boat to San Pedro (Long Beach area). What's interesting is he departed Mexico without checking out (would need to have been done Friday, the day before) and without cancelling the Temporary Import Permit (TIP). If the boat ever returns to Mexico, will cause the owner a world of grief, possibly seizure since the boat left Mexico without proper despacho (exit document).

Interesting.

The sunseeker delivery started in the spring. Owner contacted me about buying the boat and delivering her to hawaii. They spent all spring and summer working on the engines and there were haul outs. In Beginning of September, right around labor day weekend we did a sea trial to avalon and back from MDR. This estiablished initial conumption numbers for the delivery. I worked on planning the implementation of the fuel bags, fuel transfer system, and stability calculations.

End of september flew down to take the boat out of the MDR slip as the lease was ending. Crew and I moved daily between the MDR boat ramp and the park at MDR for two weeks. During this time we had to fix the auto pilot, the 12 volt system, and do many sea trials. End of these two weeks we provisioned, fueled up the boat, and departed for hawaii only to have a cooling hose clamp break which flooded the engine room just south of san clemente island.

We got quotations to move the fuel out of fuel bag above the engine room, store, fix the hose clamps in engine room, and then put fuel back on board. These quotes where about $22k. Ended up moving the boat to san pedro, cabrillo marina, went home and regrouped.

In October got notified by the owner that the sunseeker needs to be out of california by dec 16 due to a california law and loyds of london insurance.

In mid November we came up with a plan where my wife and I would fly down. We rented a uhaul truck and bought an IBC tote. In the evening moved the boat over to the san pedro boat ramp as well as the truck and tote. Removed all the fuel from the aft fuel bag and fixed the hose clamps in the engine room. Then my wife and I took the boat to catalina, then down to Ensanada. Wife and I made are way back home. Plan was to deliver the boat from ensanada to hawaii in early january.

November 24 I was doing christmas ships on the nova out on the columbia. Get a call from the owner asking me if I could go tet the sunseeker before 2 pm saturday november 25th. Booked a late alaska flight to san diego, stayed in hilton, got up at 4 am and took the trolley to the border where I walked across. Jumped in a cab and got to the sunseeker at 8 am. 30 hrs later was back in the slip in san pedro. Flew home ....

Two days later crew and I flew in, we quickly provisioned and fueled the boat up as well as putting 7 barrels on deck.

3 days after leaving we started having 24 volt voltage issues, pretty sure the regulator bit the dust. So we created a patch cable and tied the starboard start batteries to the house so that it would get a charge from the alternators.

2 days later we discovered the bags starting to leak, the corner seams where breaking down.

2 days later we discovered a low sagging down from the north pacific, this would generate 3 days of west winds with the first day having breaking waves going over the boat.

After the westerlies died down the trades filled back in and gave us a half knot push into kona. We caught 17 mahi on my hand lines, and ate good.

Delivering a power boat like this with all the fuel for sure has its challenges, and makes a sailboat hawaii delivery look simple. Would I do it again, probably not ...... and I learned a ton about fuel bags and fuel transfer systems
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Elsewhere, he posted that the fuel bladders leaked

"started with 2300 gallons, arrived in kona with 110. Probably lost about 100 or 200 gallons from leaking bags, and we sped up a little coming into kona. "
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In response to a FB question, he said all the bladders had leaked Recall, there were reportedly bladders in the stateroom and saloon. In a Sailing Anarchy post, the purported owner said the boat arrives in perfect condition. I guess he missed the 100-200 gallons of diesel sloshing around the stateroom and saloon.
 
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Those fuel leaks will haunt the owner. I can just imagine the haphazard lashing of the bags to the interior of the boat allowing them to roll and slosh all the way there. We never saw the style of bladder did we?
 
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